How to be a steroid user and not end up on TRT

[dece870717]

is this a sure thing?
I'd hate to not be able to have any kids down the road..

Does anyone have any studies on HCG+HMG increasing sperm count?

The man wasn't on TRT but under the same conditions as you would be under TRT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12801577

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use. DESIGN: Clinical case report. SETTINGS: Tertiary referral center for infertility. PATIENT(S): A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate. INTERVENTION(S): Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Semen analyses, pregnancy. RESULT(S): Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later. CONCLUSION(S): Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.

[IMunchRoidz]

i've read somewhere it is still possible to have kids while on gear though.. aren't you also shut down while on gear?

[terraj]

i've read somewhere it is still possible to have kids while on gear though.. aren't you also shut down while on gear?

Depends on the cycle and the person, but by the time you get to the end of that cycle most guys will be shut down fully.

[Td00]

So if you only do 1 cycle a year of 8-12 weeks + HCG and a good PCT, the chances of needing HRT are low?

[Td00]

So if you only do 1 cycle a year of 8-12 weeks + HCG and a good PCT, the chances of needing HRT are low?

bump?

[P3rf3ctionist]

. INTERVENTION(S): Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months..MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Semen analyses, pregnancy. RESULT(S): Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later. CONCLUSION(S): Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.[/B]

does that debunk the idea of desensitization of testes to LH? could anybody shed some light.

[rbg]

In my opinion alone, I believe that good PCT will only delay the onset of needing TRT. If you do gear in your 20's, by late 30's I believe you'll likely be on TRT. That's just my opinion from personal experience.

With PCT, it's likely you'll produce enough testicular testosterone to produce sperm and father kids, but over time, that level will naturally drop as you get older. You'll notice old age creeping up on you at a relatively young age, such as fatigue, lethargy, aches, depression, anxiety, and worst of all ED, and loss of libido. You will feel old at a young age. This is called Hypogonadism.

The less amount of cycles a person does, the less amount of damage he is doing to his HPTA. With each cycle, it's like you are speeding up the onset of old age in the long term, should you ever stop doing gear. That's where the problem is, when a person stops, and now no longer produces sufficient endogenous testosterone. That is when old age creeps up on you. As long as testosterone is taken, it act like an anti aging regimen, but it will affect the production of sperm.

I was always told when I began back in to early 90's, to always start on orals. Mild ones back then such as Pronobol 5's, and then cycle onto Anapolon 50's. With orals, 6 weeks on, and 3 weeks off, as they are too toxic. Then use the Anapolon 50 as a stepping stone onto injectables. I never heard of anyone taking injectable, and definately not stacks of gear their first time round. It was always Testosterone (Testoviron) 250mg once per week. This helped to make the off cycle mild to cope with, and the losses less severe. Bulking up on Test, then later adding a Primobolan or a Winstrol, and Clenbuterol, but always having a test base. They were always 10 weeks on and a minimum 3 weeks off. This is to assist the Androgen receptors to work again.

PCT was always HCG. We never used clomid back then. Tamoxifen was always on hand for gyno.

I did that for 3 years, 10 weeks on 3 weeks off....back in '93 to '96 when I was 21 to 24. I still fathered kids upto the age of 35...but did I feel old before my time...heck yeah.
I still retained my size even when not training...it was like it became mature muscle, and even after 15 years I am still 5'10" and 225lbs
Now I'm on TRT...and feel like an 18 year old again. Now, I feel like I have the energy to start training, so I did.

I think a large part of the problem that I see is too many young guys are starting out taking too much gear to begin with. I cringe when I see people advising these guys to start their first cycle with 500mg of test, and sometime even stacking with something else.

To me, even starting with 250mg first ever cycle is too much, and they should start on a mild oral. I can imagine the damage to the HPTA a 500mg cycle and a stack of 400mg of something else will do to over and over again. these are the guys who end up on 1000mg of test, and other stuff, and eventually develop diabetic glaucoma.

[carbo]

In my opinion alone, I believe that good PCT will only delay the onset of needing TRT. If you do gear in your 20's, by late 30's I believe you'll likely be on TRT. That's just my opinion from personal experience.

With PCT, it's likely you'll produce enough testicular testosterone to produce sperm and father kids, but over time, that level will naturally drop as you get older. You'll notice old age creeping up on you at a relatively young age, such as fatigue, lethargy, aches, depression, anxiety, and worst of all ED, and loss of libido. You will feel old at a young age. This is called Hypogonadism.

The less amount of cycles a person does, the less amount of damage he is doing to his HPTA. With each cycle, it's like you are speeding up the onset of old age in the long term, should you ever stop doing gear. That's where the problem is, when a person stops, and now no longer produces sufficient endogenous testosterone. That is when old age creeps up on you. As long as testosterone is taken, it act like an anti aging regimen, but it will affect the production of sperm.

I was always told when I began back in to early 90's, to always start on orals. Mild ones back then such as Pronobol 5's, and then cycle onto Anapolon 50's. With orals, 6 weeks on, and 3 weeks off, as they are too toxic. Then use the Anapolon 50 as a stepping stone onto injectables. I never heard of anyone taking injectable, and definately not stacks of gear their first time round. It was always Testosterone (Testoviron) 250mg once per week. This helped to make the off cycle mild to cope with, and the losses less severe. Bulking up on Test, then later adding a Primobolan or a Winstrol, and Clenbuterol, but always having a test base. They were always 10 weeks on and a minimum 3 weeks off. This is to assist the Androgen receptors to work again.

PCT was always HCG. We never used clomid back then. Tamoxifen was always on hand for gyno.

I did that for 3 years, 10 weeks on 3 weeks off....back in '93 to '96 when I was 21 to 24. I still fathered kids upto the age of 35...but did I feel old before my time...heck yeah.
I still retained my size even when not training...it was like it became mature muscle, and even after 15 years I am still 5'10" and 225lbs
Now I'm on TRT...and feel like an 18 year old again. Now, I feel like I have the energy to start training, so I did.

I think a large part of the problem that I see is too many young guys are starting out taking too much gear to begin with. I cringe when I see people advising these guys to start their first cycle with 500mg of test, and sometime even stacking with something else.

To me, even starting with 250mg first ever cycle is too much, and they should start on a mild oral. I can imagine the damage to the HPTA a 500mg cycle and a stack of 400mg of something else will do to over and over again. these are the guys who end up on 1000mg of test, and other stuff, and eventually develop diabetic glaucoma.

bah, that post is all over the place

[stevey_6t9]

does that debunk the idea of desensitization of testes to lh? Could anybody shed some light.

x2..

[dezza6969]

does that debunk the idea of desensitization of testes to LH? could anybody shed some light.

How does it debunk the idea of hcg desensitization? It is a HYPOGONODAL male who's testes are already desensitized, albiet not by hcg but by past steroid use, thus far greater amounts of hcg have to be used to kickstart. The reward of restarting the testes with a higher dose outweighs the risk of HCG desensitization. There are a bunch of reports on hypogonadalism being treated with large amounts of hcg to try to kickstart the testes. These large clinical doses do not disprove hcg desensitization, just in these extreme cases large doses are needed to get the desired response eg: fertility from testes that would be non responsive to low doses.