Please Critique my PCT

[mediocre45]

Age: 24
Weight (when cycle starts): ~220 @ 15% bf
Lifts: 430/320/550

My first cycle was 12 weeks dbol (4) test, and I had a fairly comprehensive PCT (hcg at the end at high doses) but did not recover well at all.

2nd cycle was 8-10 weeks (I forget it's been a while) with test prop/test susp and I used a similar PCT protocol as I have planned below, and I came off pretty well.

This is my 3rd cycle:
1-8: test prop 140 mg EOD and var 65 mg ED

My PCT plan:
7-12: IGF @ ~60 mcg 3 x per week
2-8.5: hcg @ 250 IU 2x per week
2-8.5: adex @ .25 mg/day
9-12: Clomid: 100-150/75-100/50-75/50 mg ED
9-13: nolva: 40/30/20/20/10
6-14+: creatine

I know this is more than enough, but are there any things you would change? I have all this stuff and might not cycle for a while so I figure I might as well use it. Would you change timing and/or dose on this PCT? Thanks!

Random question if anyone has an opinion...but what kind of strength gains can I expect if I do a powerlifting routine on a caloric deficit with this cycle?...I've never done pure powerlifting on a cycle before and just curious.

[Bio-Active]

Age: 24
Weight (when cycle starts): ~220 @ 15% bf
Lifts: 430/320/550

My first cycle was 12 weeks dbol (4) test, and I had a fairly comprehensive PCT (hcg at the end at high doses) but did not recover well at all.

2nd cycle was 8-10 weeks (I forget it's been a while) with test prop/test susp and I used a similar PCT protocol as I have planned below, and I came off pretty well.

This is my 3rd cycle:
1-8: test prop 140 mg EOD and var 65 mg ED

My PCT plan:
7-12: IGF @ ~60 mcg 3 x per week
2-8.5: hcg @ 250 IU 2x per week
2-8.5: adex @ .25 mg/day
9-12: Clomid: 100-150/75-100/50-75/50 mg ED
9-13: nolva: 40/30/20/20/10
6-14+: creatine

I know this is more than enough, but are there any things you would change? I have all this stuff and might not cycle for a while so I figure I might as well use it. Would you change timing and/or dose on this PCT? Thanks!

Random question if anyone has an opinion...but what kind of strength gains can I expect if I do a powerlifting routine on a caloric deficit with this cycle?...I've never done pure powerlifting on a cycle before and just curious.

Are you planning a 13 or 14 week pct? Have you considered running HCG during your cycle. HCG is generally used on cycle before PCT. It could be counter productive running HCG during PCT.

[mediocre45]

Are you planning a 13 or 14 week pct? Have you considered running HCG during your cycle. HCG is generally used on cycle before PCT. It could be counter productive running HCG during PCT.

Ah, I think we are confused with semantics. In some sense I consider the entire cycle PCT, because I do want to run HCG throughout. For simplicity I'll use PCT in the traditional sense.

To clarify, my cycle will be 8 weeks, followed by a 5 week PCT. HCG will only run into the first half week (one injection after AAS) of PCT.

My question relates to your critique...should I stop HCG the last day or is it ok to run a half week into PCT. Also, should I start HCG the first day of my cycle or wait a week? Thanks!

[Bio-Active]

Ah, I think we are confused with semantics. In some sense I consider the entire cycle PCT, because I do want to run HCG throughout. For simplicity I'll use PCT in the traditional sense.

To clarify, my cycle will be 8 weeks, followed by a 5 week PCT. HCG will only run into the first half week (one injection after AAS) of PCT.

My question relates to your critique...should I stop HCG the last day or is it ok to run a half week into PCT. Also, should I start HCG the first day of my cycle or wait a week? Thanks!

your pct should start 14 days from your last inject of the test. You could run the hcg during those 14 days before starting pct but after that the serms wont be effective unless you discontinue the hcg. I hope this makes more sense?

[mediocre45]

your pct should start 14 days from your last inject of the test. You could run the hcg during those 14 days before starting pct but after that the serms wont be effective unless you discontinue the hcg. I hope this makes more sense?

14 days after test prop?!?!? I dunno about that man, I'm assuming you thought I was doing enth/cyp. I'm going to start PCT 2 days after.

[Bio-Active]

14 days after test prop?!?!? I dunno about that man, I'm assuming you thought I was doing enth/cyp. I'm going to start PCT 2 days after.

Sorry bro yeah i thought it was a longer ester. I would want the hcg out of my system at the time you start pct so the serms can do there job.

[mediocre45]

Sorry bro yeah i thought it was a longer ester. I would want the hcg out of my system at the time you start pct so the serms can do there job.

Ok cool. I should cut out the Adex last inject too?

What are your thoughts on when to start HCG and adex (I don't usually have any bad sides that cause the need for Adex, but I have it, and will toss it if I don't use it)? Thanks man much appreciated.

[Bio-Active]

Ok cool. I should cut out the Adex last inject too?

What are your thoughts on when to start HCG and adex (I don't usually have any bad sides that cause the need for Adex, but I have it, and will toss it if I don't use it)? Thanks man much appreciated.

Start HCG and ADEX week # 2

[G4R]

Why do you want to run adex during your PCT?

[mediocre45]

Start HCG and ADEX week # 2

Ok cool.

Why do you want to run adex during your PCT?

I don't necessarily; I was just wanting to run it during HCG, but since I have decided to drop HCG for that first 1/2 week of PCT, I'll cut it out beforehand as well.

So here is my revised plan:
1-8: 140 mg test prop EOD, 65 mg var ED, 250 IU HCG 2x/week, low dose of Adex ED
9-13: Nolva 40 down to 10 mg/day
9-12: Clomid, moderate front load down to 50 mg/day
IGF and creatine towards the end and through PCT.

So my questions come down to what to do about Adex (dose and frequency), and strength gains (note that I've looked everywhere for this info and haven't seen a whole lot of: I got X% increase on my compound lifts, but I have found some)...I expect to keep 15% increase in the 3, or that is my goal rather.

[G4R]

Unless you are gyno prone, you prob wont need adex. Plus, a Prop/Var cycle wont raise your estrogen levels very high.

As far as strenght gains go, thats hard to say since everyone varies. I would have to say personally, Prop would give me around 10% gains during cycle.

Start PCT 3 - 4 days after last prop injection

[mediocre45]

Unless you are gyno prone, you prob wont need adex. Plus, a Prop/Var cycle wont raise your estrogen levels very high.

As far as strenght gains go, thats hard to say since everyone varies. I would have to say personally, Prop would give me around 10% gains during cycle.

Start PCT 3 - 4 days after last prop injection

Yeah I'm really not prone to Gyno...that first cycle I did I used nothing (had letro on hand) and had no symptoms, just a really awful time AFTER PCT was over that wasn't gyno-related. If I see anything I'll run a protocol.

How long is liquid Adex good for? I've probably had this stuff for 8-10 months, and wondering if it would be good in 6 months?

Considering all things: cutting/keto diet, prop AND var, powerlifting routine, IGF/creatine, I think I can easily keep 15%.

[G4R]

You may be shooting at the high end by picking 15%, but I am sure it can be done. Obviously I cant speak for everyone, and there may be plenty of people who keep 15% strenght gains.

[mediocre45]

You may be shooting at the high end by picking 15%, but I am sure it can be done. Obviously I cant speak for everyone, and there may be plenty of people who keep 15% strenght gains.

As a PL, I always overshoot...so by now when I don't meet my goals, I'm not so disappointed...as long as I'm having fun and staying positive I'm good to go.

Any thoughts on how long liquid adex will stay usable?

[G4R]

Usually over a year. If anything starts seperating, gently shake the bottle to mix it all up. If you shake it up and it doesnt go back to looking normal, toss it out.

[mediocre45]

Usually over a year. If anything starts seperating, gently shake the bottle to mix it all up. If you shake it up and it doesnt go back to looking normal, toss it out.

Sounds good. Ok one more question!...

When I came off that rough cycle I (like an idiot) took winstrol alone on a keto diet, and my cholesterol and liver values were pretty bad. I have read a little here and there regarding var and increasing bad cholesterol and decreasing good cholesterol, and since it is a 17aa can have neg affects on the liver.

In your opinion, how worried should I be about this and what do you recommend to stave these effects off? I have milk thistle and nac 600 for liver (what doses would you recommend, and any better/other OTC liver supps?). What would you recommend for fighting cholesterol imbalance (I have read vit E and C). Thanks again man searching for some of these specifics can take forever for half-ass or mixed answers.

[G4R]

Var is pretty mild on the liver when it comes to orals. If you are worried about it (nothing wrong with be cautious), then Liv52 is prob your best bet.

For cholesterol, my favorite is fish oil. Any good diet should include it regardless. The AHA (American Heart Association) recommends anyone trying to lower their triglycerides take anywhere from 2 - 4 grams a day. I usually take around 10g a day.

[mediocre45]

Var is pretty mild on the liver when it comes to orals. If you are worried about it (nothing wrong with be cautious), then Liv52 is prob your best bet.

For cholesterol, my favorite is fish oil. Any good diet should include it regardless. The AHA (American Heart Association) recommends anyone trying to lower their triglycerides take anywhere from 2 - 4 grams a day. I usually take around 10g a day.

Ok awesome...I'll use what milk thistle and nac 600 I have and then use liv52 for the majority.

I have finally become religious in my fish oil intake, I take about 1 g per meal but will double that on cycle. Thanks again dudes pretty stoked for this cycle!

[G4R]

Good luck and BE CAREFUL

[mediocre45]

What are you guys' thoughts on taking clomid at a lower dose. Say 25 mg every day for 4 weeks?