Test E only, first time users question

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 08:27 AM

Hi all.
Some stats first to avoid flames..
5'9'', 205 lbs, BF never more then 13%, 29yo, 10 years of serious lifting experience. Very good diet.
I'll be brief. I've done my share of research,literature and stickies among other things. However, some things confuse me(regarding everything else but E), so i'll lay out my plan and post specific questions if that's alright.

10 weeks test E only, 500 mg/week(or am i ok with 400?). 2 shots, Monday and Thursday.
14 days after last injection,PCT:

4 weeks - 100/100/50/50 - mg ED Clomid(or Clomid 50 per day all 4 weeks?)
4 weeks - 40/40/20/20 - mg ED Nolvadex

What i'm afraid of is shrinking testes, and mostly gyno(of which i have no reason to believe i'm prone for now).

The questions...Should i run HCG from the start(same time as E)? 250 twice/week; 125 E3D? Or run it after?
I live in a 3rd world country, prices of Aromasin and Letro in my country are unbelievable, and that's an understatement. Srs, ... at least, and who knows how long would i have to wait for it to arrive. I can't afford it, esp. if there's a chance i might end up not using it at all. 3rd world-meaning i can't even order online.

Question: I read numerous times that Nolva ED during a cycle can be effective with estrogen(gyno in particular) symptoms-increase miligrams if itchiness or lumps happen, then decrease and so on..I don't really need the details on it now(if that is true btw), i'd just like the advice on whether i should go ahead with a first test e-cycle without AI-can i hope to stay gyno free with just Nolvadex? Or should i stay away from gear for now because of lack of AI...

That's about it. I hope the reply wont take much trouble, i realize it's several specific questions, and i apologize for it, but i have noone experienced to ask or discuss in person.

Expecting to gain 20 lbs from the cycle.

Thanks.

**Matt** · 10-25-2010, 08:35 AM

Yes you can drop the test e to 400mgs, you will still see huge gains as long as diet and training are spot on. Hcg can be run during your cycle this should help with testicular shrinkage.

If your not gyno prone then theres a good chance you will be fine but its always a good idea to have an ai on hand, you can buy your nolva stan and ldex from here by clicking on the ar-r banner at the top of your screen and its cheap...

What have you got lined up for pct????

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 08:50 AM

Thanks for the fast reply.
PCT is in the OP :
4 weeks - 100/100/50/50 - mg ED Clomid(or Clomid 50 per day all 4 weeks?)
4 weeks - 40/40/20/20 - mg ED Nolvadex

I can simply buy test E,Pregnyl,Clomid and Nolvadex in any pharmacy in my country without prescription. AI prices are through the roof as i said(if found in the first place), and i can't afford it. And noone sends anything in my country online, we don't even have a normal credit card system, 99% of people never even heard of pay pall for example.Enough about that...

Please note, if i can't do the cycle right, i wont do it. So, hypothetically, let's say that i absolutely have no way of getting any AI. If gyno(or any unwanted estro related symptoms) happen, can i rely on Nolvadex( maybe from the start to prevent it even), or anything else? Simply, can i 'cure' it without an AI if it happens? Sorry if i sound ignorant, but lack of practical experience makes me think that i trully am.

Thanks again.

**Matt** · 10-25-2010, 09:03 AM

Yes nolva will work...

**MBMETC** · 10-25-2010, 09:20 AM

AN ai would be used for prevention, and no one will know if you need it till you start your cycle. so its gonna have to be a chance you are willing to take if an ai is not an option for you for what ever reason.
and as 007 stated nolva would be used as a reversal for gyno if it occours.
good luck with your decision.

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 09:39 AM

Thanks for the help guys, i really appreciate it.
I hate to bore you with newbish stuff, but i'll try my luck again.I was under the impression that Nolva can be run from day 1 as a prevention?Or, also, can i be at least pretty certain that it will do the job as a gyno reversal?
And in case of Nolva during the cycle in one way or the other, does my HCG, and PCT protocol remains unchanged form planned?

I'll certainly do my research on these subjects, just hoping for a bit more of good will from you guys now...

**MACHINE5150** · 10-25-2010, 09:52 AM

you will be fine dropping the test to 400mg per week.. for the HCG you want to pin it twice a week at 250iu each time.. you can run this all the way up until you start PCT and you will prevent any shrinkage in that region.. plus you will blow massive loads.. porn star stuff seriously..

**needmorestrength** · 10-25-2010, 10:33 AM

Shouldn't PCT start 21 days after last injection with test E?

**needmorestrength** · 10-25-2010, 10:42 AM

Scratch that!

**MACHINE5150** · 10-25-2010, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by needmorestrength

Shouldn't PCT start 21 days after last injection with test E?

i think that is with test C.. as Test C has an half life of 6 days but an effective life of 20.. this is going off of memory.. so do not quote me.

**needmorestrength** · 10-25-2010, 10:50 AM

Scratch that!

**Matt** · 10-25-2010, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

i think that is with test C.. as Test C has an half life of 6 days but an effective life of 20.. this is going off of memory.. so do not quote me.

Test c is 18 days, sust is 21...

**Johnyonemove** · 10-25-2010, 11:54 AM

I got gyno symptoms on my first cycle (currently still on it) Started taking nolva right away. 100 mg the first day then 40 mg for 2 weeks, 10mg every day from there on out...My nipples dont itch or feel sensitive any more, I dont have any lumps under them. It is safe to say that if you catch it you can stop it with nolva.

I gather its in your interest to avoid Nolva from day one as estrogen in your body is a great thing and the Nolva blocks it from certain areas. I'm sure someone can expand on that. I was told if it got worse to consider Letro to lower my E levels. It didnt so I didnt bother with the letro. I think it would also be safe to say any and all sides are a possiblity so play at your own risk!

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 12:02 PM

Thanks very much! That was the info i really needed..

**BOBfromfightclub** · 10-25-2010, 12:28 PM

Just wondering...if you live in a third world country why are you doing steroids...isnt there more important things you should be spending your money on...

I feel a girl is involved here

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by BOBfromfightclub

Just wondering...if you live in a third world country why are you doing steroids...isnt there more important things you should be spending your money on...

I feel a girl is involved here

I fail to see the relevance of living in the 3rd world country with using AAS. And i'm married with kids. After dozen years of seriously training, some plateau has arrived for me.

**boyka** · 10-25-2010, 02:19 PM

Hey Cmono , where do you live?
My situation is same as yours, i can buy Nolva, Clomid, Test E..... from any pharmancy, but all AI's cost 50% of my salary, so impossible to buy it.
btw. i live in Macedonia...

**Cmono** · 10-25-2010, 02:37 PM

Serbia. Probably a 90 minute drive from you wherever you live

So how do you get by without AIs?

**boyka** · 10-25-2010, 02:43 PM

Well i am gyno prone, so i use 10mg nolva from the start of the cycle , and 25mg-50mg Proviron(this is weak AI, and helps other compounds work better.) So i combat estrogen sides very good with this...

**boz** · 10-25-2010, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cmono

Thanks for the fast reply.
PCT is in the OP :
4 weeks - 100/100/50/50 - mg ED Clomid(or Clomid 50 per day all 4 weeks?)
4 weeks - 40/40/20/20 - mg ED Nolvadex

I can simply buy test E,Pregnyl,Clomid and Nolvadex in any pharmacy in my country without prescription. AI prices are through the roof as i said(if found in the first place), and i can't afford it. And noone sends anything in my country online, we don't even have a normal credit card system, 99% of people never even heard of pay pall for example.Enough about that...

Please note, if i can't do the cycle right, i wont do it. So, hypothetically, let's say that i absolutely have no way of getting any AI. If gyno(or any unwanted estro related symptoms) happen, can i rely on Nolvadex( maybe from the start to prevent it even), or anything else? Simply, can i 'cure' it without an AI if it happens? Sorry if i sound ignorant, but lack of practical experience makes me think that i trully am.

Thanks again.

And now onto the big part. Tamox does in fact cure gyno. Yes, shocking to some, to others, not so much. I have long suspected (thanks to the guide from Mammon) that it was possible. Originally i didn't include this in the thread because to be honest i rushed this out. But now time for the big reveal.

Taken from C Bino's thread "All you need to know about gyno"

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

**Tigershark** · 10-25-2010, 10:34 PM

My first two cycles were test e only. First cycle was 400 a week, the second one was 600 a week. I had some nice gains. I learned a lot about diet from my first cycle and what mistakes not to make the second time around. Doing my 3rd cycle now and my diet could not be better. Yeah everyonce in a while I slip up and gorge myself on pizza with the kids on a family movie night, but this happens maybe once every few months. I am lucky enough to have a family who is supportive of my diet needs. Our 15 year old cooks every Tuesday and he always makes spaghetti or something else I will not touch while training. Butnhe is a good kid and will throw together a chicken breast for me with a salad. Ok I will quit bragging about my kid now.

**Cmono** · 10-26-2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by boz88

And now onto the big part. Tamox does in fact cure gyno. Yes, shocking to some, to others, not so much. I have long suspected (thanks to the guide from Mammon) that it was possible. Originally i didn't include this in the thread because to be honest i rushed this out. But now time for the big reveal.

Taken from C Bino's thread "All you need to know about gyno"

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

This post is a bit confusing. What are you saying, it does or it doesn't?

Plus:

Originally Posted by D7M

Nolva is very effective at treating and preventing gyno.

**stevey_6t9** · 10-26-2010, 05:59 AM

nolva got rid of my gyno i got on cycle, so i guess it can.

**boyka** · 10-26-2010, 11:15 AM

Nolva helped me too...

**ghettoboyd** · 10-26-2010, 11:27 AM

i concur....nolva shrunk my gyno into nonexistance after my last cycle...it was just a small lump under one nipple but it went away rather fast durring pct, i have no science to back it up just experiance if that helps any...

**dosXX** · 10-26-2010, 11:41 AM

Yeah I would use the HCG at 250ius 2-3x a week. and as for controlling or balancing your E2 I would recommend getting an AI. From my understanding, not only it will reverse gyno but Nolva will help prevent gyno because of it's ability to bind into ERs on the breast tissues but I'm not really sure if Nolva can aid with lowering your E2 levels. I could be wrong (pls correct me if I'm mistaken).

Someone mentioned here that estrogen is good for you, yes that is true but only if your levels are within the right range having too high or too low E2 levels have various effects on a person's body and this is the area where an AI might be beneficial because it gives you the ability to control your E2 ranges.

**boz** · 10-26-2010, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cmono

This post is a bit confusing. What are you saying, it does or it doesn't?

Plus:

Meh never mind, i dont know what to believe anymore, what i read.

**Cmono** · 10-27-2010, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by boz88

Meh never mind, i dont know what to believe anymore, what i read.

Yeah, never mind, my bad, i found the thread your post was from(WarMachine), very good thread, answered a lot of questions. Thanks.

**Badgers** · 10-27-2010, 01:45 AM

Nolva/Tamox can be used to reverse gyno, i'm currently in week 10 on my test e 400mg cycle. Gained 6 kg's, and dropped my bf with 1 %, no sides. Good luck on yours!!!!

**cro** · 10-27-2010, 04:25 AM

just run the nolva at 10 mg everyday during cycle you will have no problems thats all there used to be for years thats what im going to do. all this other stuff is newer and im sure it has a purpose but if you got nolva and cant get nothin else go with it. its a blocker not a reducer.

**Peace Missile** · 10-27-2010, 04:29 AM

10-12 weeks of Test E is the perfect first cycle..

**Cmono** · 10-27-2010, 05:15 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies. It helped a LOT.

Reading every letter of all the stickies and available literature turned out a bit confusing, but your replies and countless hours of using the search button made a great difference.

Thanks again.

**Johnyonemove** · 10-27-2010, 08:17 AM

Stay on the boards... You'll learn new things daily from everyone elses posts.

**cro** · 10-27-2010, 04:42 PM

nolva can be run from day 1 starting cycle

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