So did i do the right thing??

[sigman roid]

Im not sure that I believe atrophy/ no atrophy is a good indicator of LH shutdown

IMO the most important part of using AAS responsibly is recovery

Recovering the HPTA to me is just as important as the cycle its self, no one wants there Natty Testosterone production to decline prematurley.

That is why IMO HCG should be used while on cycle

People out there that use HCG to keep there Testicle size do not realise the bigger picture of what the HCG is actually doing

HCG is used to mimic leutenizing hormone and basically tell the Testicle to keep producing Testosterone, maintaining endogenous testosterone prodction and Intra-Testicular Testosterone.

When PCT comes around the Testicles are already up and working and therefore a quicker/fuller recovery may be possible

We could go on and on with this so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

[Swifto]

I mean exactly what i said" HCG in my opinion should be run if needed" not just for the sake of it

How can you advise him to use hcg when you dont know if he will need it or not? Hcg is not a must on cycle and he wont know if its needed until he's on cycle,Whats so hard to understand?

Its needed and thats about it. There isnt much more to discuss.

The data and science certainly doesnt back your uneducated opinion of using it, "if needed".

If you knew anything about testicular dysfunction and the net effect of NO stimulation for extended peroids, you'de be using it. The only way to avoid testicular dysfunction is to address the testes directly. That would be by using HCG or HMG.

Have you used HCG on cycle? If so, I guarantee your PCT was far easier.

Have you taken the time to read my thread, "HCG - How important is it?"?

For instance i dont use hcg as my balls never shirink to a point where i feel i need it,he wont know this until he's on cycle thats not to say he wont need it i just wouldnt run it from the off..jmo.

Testicular size is NOT an indication of function.

Atrophy does not mean your testes are functioning fine and your not suffering from testicular dysfunction.

Im not sure that I believe atrophy/ no atrophy is a good indicator of LH shutdown

IMO the most important part of using AAS responsibly is recovery

Recovering the HPTA to me is just as important as the cycle its self, no one wants there Natty Testosterone production to decline prematurley.

That is why IMO HCG should be used while on cycle

People out there that use HCG to keep there Testicle size do not realise the bigger picture of what the HCG is actually doing

HCG is used to mimic leutenizing hormone and basically tell the Testicle to keep producing Testosterone, maintaining endogenous testosterone prodction and Intra-Testicular Testosterone.

When PCT comes around the Testicles are already up and working and therefore a quicker/fuller recovery may be possible

Correct, well done.

We could go on and on with this so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

Unless you have some data supporting your theory of using HCG "when needed", testicular dysfunction not existing, the testes not being the weak link in HPTA restoration, it not being necessary and one of the most important aspects of using AAS? I wouldn't even bother replying and I'd use this as nothing short a lesson (by me) in HCG use and its importance when using androgens.

[lew]

Its needed and thats about it. There isnt much more to discuss.

The data and science certainly doesnt back your uneducated opinion of using it, "if needed".

If you knew anything about testicular dysfunction and the net effect of NO stimulation for extended peroids, you'de be using it. The only way to avoid testicular dysfunction is to address the testes directly. That would be by using HCG or HMG.

Have you used HCG on cycle? If so, I guarantee your PCT was far easier.

Have you taken the time to read my thread, "HCG - How important is it?"?



Testicular size is NOT an indication of function.

Atrophy does not mean your testes are functioning fine and your not suffering from testicular dysfunction.



Correct, well done.



Unless you have some data supporting your theory of using HCG "when needed", testicular dysfunction not existing, the testes not being the weak link in HPTA restoration, it not being necessary and one of the most important aspects of using AAS? I wouldn't even bother replying and I'd use this as nothing short a lesson (by me) in HCG use and its importance when using androgens.

Swifto - thank you very much for the information and taking the time to discuss. From your thread on HGC use i gathered the information about running HGC 250iu twice a week.

1. Is the amount of HGC used dependednt on the amount of test used during the cycle? is 250 iu x 2 week too much since i will be using 400mg of test a week or is this completely irrelavant and the doseage of HGC stays the same no matter what the dosage of test is?

2. Do you advise HGC to be run form the very first week of any cycle? - my PT advised as the Test E takes longer to be in your system i should run HGC around week 3. As i have no experience and my only view point to agree with his opinion is PCT is started after 18 days so if i flip this around it may take the test 18 days to start shutting down the HPTA - therefore starting at week 3 would ring true HOWEVER as mentioned i have no knowledge or experience.................your input would be apprecaited?

Thanks

[Swifto]

Swifto - thank you very much for the information and taking the time to discuss. From your thread on HGC use i gathered the information about running HGC 250iu twice a week.

1. Is the amount of HGC used dependednt on the amount of test used during the cycle? is 250 iu x 2 week too much since i will be using 400mg of test a week or is this completely irrelavant and the doseage of HGC stays the same no matter what the dosage of test is?

No. Once your shutdown, your shutdown. 250ius 2x week is fine for me, but older guys (30+) may need more. 500ius 2x week, or 250ius 3x week is also used.

250ius 2s week is a starting dose.

2. Do you advise HGC to be run form the very first week of any cycle? - my PT advised as the Test E takes longer to be in your system i should run HGC around week 3. As i have no experience and my only view point to agree with his opinion is PCT is started after 18 days so if i flip this around it may take the test 18 days to start shutting down the HPTA - therefore starting at week 3 would ring true HOWEVER as mentioned i have no knowledge or experience.................your input would be apprecaited?

You can start at week 2 or 3 as it takes a few weeks for endogenous testosterone to reach hypogondal levels, but I dont suggest that. Week 1 through to a few days out from PCT is what I sugest. But take 2-3 weeks off every 12 or so week as it will build estrogen and progesterone levels over time.

Thanks

bolds......