Originally Posted by
Bojangles69
Wooow this thread is crazy. I had no idea this is what this thread was about as I've seen it go up and down the forum for years.
But if I had known sooner I would have posted sooner.
People think that cops target blacks because cops allegedly target drug dealers and most drug dealers are black, but statistics show a large majority (think it was 70%) of 1st and 2nd time offenders were charged with simple possession crimes of under a gm I believe. So cops aren't targeting dealers like most people think. It would seem more from the statistics, that cops target anyone who breaks the law.
I was reading this a few days ago as I was curious about the legal situation with blacks myself.
Among men, blacks (28.5%) are about six times more likely than whites (4.4%)
to be admitted to prison during their life. Among women, 3.6% of blacks and
0.5% of whites will enter prison at least once. (U.S. Department of Justice)
Based on current rates of incarceration, an estimated 7.9% of black males
compared to 0.7% of white males will enter State of Federal prison by the
time they are age 20 and 21.4% of black males versus 1.4% of white males will
be incarcerated by age 30. (U.S. Department of Justice)
Some have noted that more black men are in prison in America than are in
college. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)
I read that and thought "wow, blacks do commit way more crime than whites".
Then I read this:
The National Institute of Drug Abuse estimated that while 12 percent of drug
users are black, they make up nearly 50 percent of all drug possession
arrests in the U.S. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)
According to the National Drug Strategy Network, although African Americans
make up less than one-third of the population in Georgia, the black arrest
rate for drugs is five times greater than the white arrest rate. In addition,
since 1990, African Americans have accounted for more than 75% of persons
incarcerated for drug offenses in Georgia and make up 97.7% of the people in
that state who are given life sentences for drug offenses.
The only thing I don't understand about all of this. Is how I was able to go through the legal system myself and serve time, and not notice any of this was going on. I was in prison, and had adopted some pretty crummy beliefs towards blacks during that time I won't lie.
I can't understand what force exactly is leading to this. So are we saying that racial profiling is the reason why only 12% of drug users are black but 50% of incarcerated drug users are black?Yes that's what I'm saying. There is enough anecdotal evidence to prove this. But I'm sure someone can find other research to denounce this as well. What level does this racial profiling take place? I don't know, at what level this takes place, because law enforcement isn't allowed to, technically, racially profile
And I personally don't think free lawyers have anything to do with it. I would have had the same exact sentence either way and was told that by various different prosecutors at the time. When you are convicted of a crime, there is ALWAYS a mandatory minimum sentence for that crime. For me, there was no way I could serve under 2 years regardless of the lawyer I had. So I don't understand how lawyers help in most drug cases, although in terms of murder I'd def want the best one I could find. I think the debate arises from the mandatory sentencing guidelines and how they are obtained. Seems that these mandatory sentencing guidelines aren't always applied evenly. Los Angeles is a prime example, in most cases Lindsay Lohan and Robert Downey Jr, would have been 3-strikes offenders, but the laws weren't applied to them. Obviously someone could argue that has more to do with economics than race. But it is interesting that these actors all seem to be white.
Just that I've seen some people in prison convicted of murder serving lesser time than some drug accussed people. Like theres a lot more room to play in the courtrooms I'm not sure.
Anyhow, is that what we're saying? BgMC what would you say is the main reason for this? Is it just the simple idea that cops hang out more in black neighborhoods? Yes, there are more patrols in higher crime areasBecause if you drive through any rich white town it always seems like theres more cops. I don't see how blacks are being targeted. That's completely untrue. I know this from first hand experience. I live in a rich white neighborhood and area in Vegas, very rarely do you see a large police presence. Now, I'm not saying this is or isn't racially motivated, but what I am saying is cops are where the crime is, as it should be.
Also, if you break the law in the ghetto, as compared once again to a rich white town, the rich white town will throw the book at you. In the ghetto you will get much fairer treatment. I think that has as much to do with the levels of crime as anything else. What I mean by this, higher crime cities don't have the room in prisons and jails to handle all the crime they have. Beverly Hills PD's jail doesn't have an overcrowding problem the way LA county does.
I saw time and time again just by hearing where people lived and what their sentences were. People who came from crummy parts of NJ always got lesser sentences than people living in richer towns. So again, how exactly are blacks being targeted? Targeting is subjective, Camden New Jersey has a higher arrest rate than more affluent parts of New Jersey. Granted more crimes are committed there as well. I'll pull some statistics in a bit, but according to those statistics, blacks are more likely to be stopped for lesser traffic crimes than whites. Usually traffic stops for lesser issues are enough for police to establish probable cause, for searches for other crimes.
It seems like thats the explanation most people allude to, but noone really has a concrete answer. So all these cops live in white towns. Go to work, get in their cars and think "let me find a shitty black town to go arrest people?" Or are they just going there because those areas DO have more crime? Cops have assigned areas. And anyone in their right mind wouldn't live in these areas unless they had to. There are several high ranking police officers in my neighborhood who do most of their work in the rougher areas of town. But you are right, more crime is committed in these areas. When I first moved to this neighborhood, I was stopped 3 times and my oldest son has been stopped walking home from school. In all cases neither of us were doing anything wrong. Not even a minor traffic infraction on my part. The first question asked was, "what kind of business do you have in this neighborhood?" I had to explain that the largest house in the neighborhood is mine. None of my neighbors have experienced this.
Its very rare for me to ever drive through a white neighborhood and see people dressed in red and blue hanging out on the corner with their pants down to their knees watching every single car that drives by like a hawk. But I see white kids dressed in all black wearing pants down around their knees smoking weed at the local skate parks who watch cars coming through all the time, never any police interaction. Watching cars come through in those neighborhoods has less to do with looking for trouble but usually looking for customers.And I also disagree about it being "safer" for a white man to walk through a black neighborhood. Criminals don't give a shit that they'll get treated harsher (if thats even a fact) just because the persons white. Look at the Christian/Newsom cases. They cut that white boys balls of for christs sake. Then stuffed that girl in a garbage can still alive with chemicals in her throat and her vagina torn to pieces from rape. Dying slowly by suffocation. I'm sure there are many cases to prove your point Bojangles, but statistically speaking, very few person-to-person crimes are committed against whites in those areas that you are referring to. But also statistically speaking whenever a crime does happen against a white person in those areas, much more attention is paid to those incidents. You point to the Christian/Newsom case, how many black guys and black girls has this happened to without the fanfare that this case had? Most criminals in the hood, are opportunist, not the sociopathic insane cats most think, the least amount attention they can draw the more they can do their crimes. And their ideology is commit a crime against a white person, much more attention than a crime against a minority. Just like you alluded to most drug offenders are black but most drug users are white, most of these white kids get their drugs from 'da hood' and they may get robbed, but usually no physical harm comes to these kids. Not justifying the crime or making excuses why they commit their crimes just citing why they do what they do.
My point is I've got jumped in Asbury park only twice, but I was ABSOLUTELY targeted for being white both times. A white boy walking through a ghetto is a prime target for anyone to get over on. They assume you don't have street smarts, assume they can hide the evidence before any cops come, and the last thing thats going to stop them imo is the idea of harsher treatment from cops. I mean these same guys are selling crack all day long to both black and whites. They already got a ton of heat on them. And from what I've seen hanging out in Asbury and more seldomly Newark, I was definitely a target to get ****ed with. I didn't look funny, I'm more good looking than anything, and just white. I think most of them assumed I had money and it just made them angry for w/e reason.
So my point is I just very much disagree with it being safer for a white guy in a black ghetto. That's a personal experience I can't speak on Bojangles. And I'm not trying to blame the victim per se., but what/why were you in those areas. Most of the white kids that live in those areas hang out with those blacks and are completely safe. Were you there with a shaved head, black bomber jacket, and Dach Martin boots? LOL! Yes you will get jumped because they think you are looking for trouble. I don't know the circumstances of your ordeal, so I can't speak on them. I'm just speaking in generalities. And much more attention is put on whites being accosted in those areas than vice versa.
I also don't believe blacks are targeted. I think cops target high crime neighborhoods that just happen to be black. Its more condensed and less divided as opposed to white populations. They cluster to sell drugs. Show me white towns in NJ where whites do this? I've driven through the entire state for work and its always poor black neighborhoods selling drugs, not white.
Look at keansburg, poor white neighborhood. Walk through the streets and try buying drugs, not happening. Youd be there for a week looking.
Go to a poor black neighborhood like asbury, you can find drugs in less than 5 mins.Do you seriously think drugs aren't sold in white neighborhoods? They just aren't as open as they are in black neighborhoods. I can't convince you that blacks aren't targeted because you aren't black and have never been racially profiled by law enforcement. But again, statistics prove that blacks (even in lesser crime areas) are targeted more than whites for drug offenses. Look at the stats for the I-95 corridor in Florida. There has been several stories of cops stopping black motorists for drugs. And these are in between very affluent areas.
Then you have all black rich neighborhoods like Montclair NJ. NEVER see people selling drugs in montclair.
It seems to me like this. Both rich white and black neighborhoods aren't targeted for drugs. Poor white neighborhoods aren't targeted because very few of them actually sell drugs in the manners blacks do. Its always poor black neighborhoods due to how boldly they sell the drugs. Whites like meeting places. Go inside a house, in a portajon, a store, a parking lot. Blacks do it right in the middle of the street. Am I wrong? Yes you are wrong. You are only using New Jersey as your basis point. You have to look nationwide. Trailer parks around the country are bastions of drug sells and are largely populated by lower income whites.Cause I'll take a videotape driving through NJ to prove it. I might find 5 white guys in the whole state on the corner of some street selling crack, than about 500 blacks doing the same thing.Its a numbers game, plain and simple. If there were trailer parks set up like projects, don't you think you'd see the same numbers?
I do NOT believe that blacks are targeted. You've made this point many times already My opinion is they make themselves easy bait for the system. Don't do that shit in your front yard, especially in the middle of a road, and you'll see cops "target" you less. The fact is cops are just going where its easiest to make arrests, black neighborhoods.
If you think anything I'm saying is a misconception. Its not misconception, its your PERception. And like you said earlier in this post and judging from your past post over the years you and I have been members of this forum, you've never had a fondness for blacks. So I don't know if anything I've posted above will matter. I don't mind answering your questions, as a matter of fact I welcome them. I, actually, appreciate the fact that you would present these questions in the manner you have. Civil and well thoughtout. But my PERception of your post is you're trying to prove that blacks bring these issues on themselves and that our perception of law enforcement is wrong. Am I wrong in this assumption? If I am, please let me know. I can only offer you what I know. I'll never say that the white community is responsible for all the issues in the black community. As a matter of fact, we are responsible for many of our own issues. But its the systematic racial bias that causes people to put themselves in certain situations. Its a chicken and egg thing/cause and effect.Please let me know. I'm dying to see what your response is for all of this. Thanks man!
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Weve finally let the other superpowers in the world eclipse are country in wealth..Cant say you didn't see it coming?Americans as a whole, dont have the work ethic other got in the world..Theres exceptions of course..Like me
lol
