Gas prices.. wheres the panic an outrage now?

[Phosphor]

I don't know about you guys, but i remember a time not so long ago, Bush was flambasted 24/7 on news stories about how he's letting the gas prices go out of control. Mommies don't have enough to feed their babies because of gas prices. Conspiricies of Bush's long arm into oil, you name it.

Now with Obama at the helm, all I pretty much hear are crickets - and it's even worse now than back then and the future doesn't look all that great. I won't even go into him dissapearing for the past 8 days not addressing whats going on in the middle east, his talking head said it was 'a scheduling conflict'. Instead now he is busy addressing the most important topic of the century: gays in the military.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...71192R20110224

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi..._on_Libya.html

And now this just in, more hogwash "We're doing all we can". Great. Fine. Libya has always been a pimple on the ass of the world. In the meantime, get off the gay train and get our borders secured..! And gas? I'd rather have more offshore platforms run by BP than be dependent on that ongoing mess in the middle east.

[Eddie_m63]

They're all money thirsty mother of you know what, how can they bring back the economy (what's left of it) if people are spending more and more on gas, and we all know that gas drives the world, everything we buy will be affected by this.

[MACHINE5150]

america is on its way down.. get out while you still can like i did

[BgMc31]

america is on its way down.. get out while you still can like i did

Again, wrong assumption. Can't blame Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. I know you guys want to blame everything on the guy, but you are completely misguided on this. Also nobodys on the gay train. Every president should stand up against discrimination, and not allowing a sizable segment of your populace from enjoying the same rights of everyone else is simply discrimination and wrong, regardless of how you feel about them or their lifestyles.

As far as securing borders, again you can't blame Obama. Check out the difference between Obama's budget and the Republican budget. Obama increases funding for border security and the Republicans decrease it. Again, stop drinking the Faux news coverage and educate yourselves.

America is great and only get any better. But if you want to leave and head to another European country who is much worse off, so be it. As a matter of fact...good riddance!!! lol!!!

BTW, Machine, where are you these days? Ireland, right? Tell me how well they're doin financially...

[Phosphor]

Again, wrong assumption. Can't blame Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. I know you guys want to blame everything on the guy, but you are completely misguided on this. Also nobodys on the gay train. Every president should stand up against discrimination, and not allowing a sizable segment of your populace from enjoying the same rights of everyone else is simply discrimination and wrong, regardless of how you feel about them or their lifestyles.

As far as securing borders, again you can't blame Obama. Check out the difference between Obama's budget and the Republican budget. Obama increases funding for border security and the Republicans decrease it. Again, stop drinking the Faux news coverage and educate yourselves.

America is great and only get any better. But if you want to leave and head to another European country who is much worse off, so be it. As a matter of fact...good riddance!!! lol!!!

Maybe I came across the wrong way in that, so let me refine it a little bit. I blame Obama no more than I blame bush for the gas going up the last time. I just find it amazing the disparity on coverage of gas prices between the 2 people. One he is demonized, the other they have static silence on the issue.

Your representation for the funding is a misnomer from what I can tell. Funding or no funding, under bush they were at least building a fence - which i think is a false positive, but something. Under Obama? He comes out to attack Arizona's states rights to enforce federal law - in which Obama is in charge of. So, instead of taking the issue to task, he instead attacks the people trying to enforce the laws.

You assume I watch Fox. I don't watch much of any of them - and if I do, I watch a bit of all of them.

[BgMc31]

Phosphor, I appreciate the clarity of your position. But you are wrong about Obama attacking Arizona's right to enforce federal law. What he is attacking is their own attempt to modify their states law of enforcing the law. The main challenge of that statute was to methods of enforcing federal law, the challenge of that was its constitutionality.

In regards to gas prices, people blamed Bush because many figured he and his administration was financially tied to the oil industry (Bush comes from Oil money), also the price of gas escalated during his administration as a direct result of the turmoil we caused by attacking both Iraq and Afghanistan (or so most assumed). That is the reason why Bush got the blame.

Obama on the other hand has not control over the systemic restructuring of governments in the middle east. The people of those areas are directly responsible for their own unheavel. Thus they are indirectly causing the oil prices to climb.


I apologize for assuming that you watch Fox news. I based that assumption on your responses.

[MACHINE5150]

Again, wrong assumption. Can't blame Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. I know you guys want to blame everything on the guy, but you are completely misguided on this. Also nobodys on the gay train. Every president should stand up against discrimination, and not allowing a sizable segment of your populace from enjoying the same rights of everyone else is simply discrimination and wrong, regardless of how you feel about them or their lifestyles.

As far as securing borders, again you can't blame Obama. Check out the difference between Obama's budget and the Republican budget. Obama increases funding for border security and the Republicans decrease it. Again, stop drinking the Faux news coverage and educate yourselves.

America is great and only get any better. But if you want to leave and head to another European country who is much worse off, so be it. As a matter of fact...good riddance!!! lol!!!

I agree with you up to the point in bold.. And I agree Ireland is not much better, but you get more for your money over here..

My issue with America is based on a few things.. none of which have to do with Obama, whom i think is doing the best he can

1. The USD:.. did you know that one dollar used to get you a 1.15Euro ten years ago.. now it gets you .72 Euro.. It is expected to drop even further, and before you say it i agree the euro has taken a beating due to Ireland, Greece, and soon to be Spain.. but it is still stronger.. because of that, lets compare the U.S. dollar to the australian dollar. ten years ago the USD got you two AUD, now it won't even get you one.

2. Taxes: In the U.S...
-if i make 60,000 dollars (after write offs), I will pay $14,000 in federal taxes and $6,000 in CA State Tax. In addition, i will pay 12.5% SS which is another $7,500.. that is a total of $27,500.. almost half.. in addition to this (in cali) i pay a 1.25% Real Estate Tax as well as 8.25% sales tax... you see where this is going??? And what do you get for it?? a government that sends our brothers and sons to fake wars and a social security system that is on the brink of bankruptcy. Did you know that Russia just raised it's military spending from .5 to 1.5% of its GDP??? Guess what america spends?? 6% and as much as 8% durring war time.. America spends over 20-25% of its budget on the military??? and why?? no one is trying to invade anyone anymore?? if anything the U.S. is the aggressor and continues to back up Isael when it shouldn't.. DID YOU KNOW that america spends over 750 billion on the Department of Defense.. and in ADDITION to this is spends an estimated $500,000,000,000.00 on interest for loans from previous wars EVERY YEAR???? No wonder the deficit has soared to over 14 trillion dollars!!!
-in Ireland, if i make 60,000 Euro(~$84,000), I will pay 17,000 euro. with a few other minor things you might get up to a third of your income. In addition the Real Estate taxes are minimal if existent at all, and this includes essentially free health care.

3.Crime: Do I even need to bring up statistics about the murder rates in the U.S. compared to it's European Counterparts?? Cause I can and will if you wish, but i think we all agree that you are safer in Europe then you are in the U.S.

4. Education: The average cost to send your child to university in America is close to $50,000... in europe in is 10,000 euro..

Bottom line is this BgMc.. my whole family lives in the U.S. i have neices and nephews there as well as my parents.. my mom's brothers faught in Vietnam, my grandpa in WWII.. and have family dating back to the mid 1800's.. in addition to this i have half a dozen friends in the military fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan right now.. I wish that I could have staid in America, cause quite frankly it has more natural beauty then anything over here in europe.. but with these numbers continually stacking up against the average american ther eis no way i could justify staying there. The numbers ands statistics when it comes to healthcare, crime, and taxes simply don't add up.. To sit there and say america is getting better is just wrong.. America has been led by puppeteers for the past forty or fifty years, and these guys behind the curtains that are really running the country are running it into the ground due to their corporate greed.

[BgMc31]

Very good points, Machine. Thanks for the information. And forgive me if I came across gruff. I do agree with much that you have posted. Where we differ is I believe America will get better. But that's not the point. The fact that you left America for a even more financially troubled, more socialist, European state, speaks of utter hypocrisy. How is that possibly justifiable? Please help me understand that, because to me, it makes no sense.

[MACHINE5150]

^^^Because it was easier for me to move here first since i have family here. (my dad is from here). my ultimate goal is to move to Berlin, but i need to work on my German a bit more. I agree with you, Ireland is RETARDED..

[JohnnyVegas]

Gas prices went over $4.00 in 2008. I think things will blow up for Obama when prices start to get that high again. I don't think this has anything to do with Obama/Bush. I just think we haven't hit our pain threshold yet.

[BgMc31]

Is Germany in a better financial state than the US? I don't believe so. Unfortunately the EU is so closely tied to each other (because of a shared currency), if any of those countries are in financial trouble, they have to lean on the most prosperous one (which is currently Germany), but there are several EU countries in much worse financial crisis than the US.

Taxes? many more socialist policies than here? Aren't these a concern of your's? Also Germany has a immigration problem as well. So, still, Germany isn't in better shape than the US, so why any European country at all?

[MACHINE5150]

Is Germany in a better financial state than the US? I don't believe so. Unfortunately the EU is so closely tied to each other (because of a shared currency), if any of those countries are in financial trouble, they have to lean on the most prosperous one (which is currently Germany), but there are several EU countries in much worse financial crisis than the US.

Taxes? many more socialist policies than here? Aren't these a concern of your's? Also Germany has a immigration problem as well. So, still, Germany isn't in better shape than the US, so why any European country at all?

It is not very socialist at all.. it is LIBERAL.. but not socialist.. as for immigration. i am not sure what you are referring too.. immigration problems how?? There was a study a saw on BBC a while ago that basically said Germany needs mass immigration to sustain its economy because they do not have enough children. Why any European state?? my reasons were already outlined in my previous post regarding taxes, crime, etc.. i still have my U.S. citizenship, so if things do take a turn for the better (and i hope for my families sake they do) then i will return.. It really all comes down to personal preferences in the long run.. I have always been someone that likes to move around and see the world. I think that it is an important thing to do as you know from your own personal experiences. It is essential to see the world in order to put the world in perspective. I like the German way of thinking and the German women too.. so that is motivation as well. I will give you this.. food and drink is cheaper in the united states, and pretty much everything in the world was invented there.. so i am not bashing it, i am simply disappointed in it.. in at my age (27) i have no kids keeping me anywhere so i figured i would give it a shot.. Starting in Dublin, but as stated earlier, it is a bit backwards here .. so i am probably headed towards london and then eventually Berlin.. thats the plan anyways.. but to be honest if you asked me five years ago if i would be living in europe i would have told you to get lost.. such is life

[BgMc31]

Universal healthcare, housing subsidies, more welfare benefits, greater federal unemployment benefits, fed pays for college, the list goes on and on. Those are all socialist policies. As for taxes, Germans pay much higher federal taxes than us because of these policies.

I understand you points Machine. As a matter of fact, wifey and I were thinking about retiring to Europe (owning a vineyard in the south of France has always been a dream of ours). But I think we need people to help America get back to where we were 10-15yrs ago, instead of people leaving. But I understand your concern.

[CMB]

Again, wrong assumption. Can't blame Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. I know you guys want to blame everything on the guy, but you are completely misguided on this. Also nobodys on the gay train. Every president should stand up against discrimination, and not allowing a sizable segment of your populace from enjoying the same rights of everyone else is simply discrimination and wrong, regardless of how you feel about them or their lifestyles.

As far as securing borders, again you can't blame Obama. Check out the difference between Obama's budget and the Republican budget. Obama increases funding for border security and the Republicans decrease it. Again, stop drinking the Faux news coverage and educate yourselves.

America is great and only get any better. But if you want to leave and head to another European country who is much worse off, so be it. As a matter of fact...good riddance!!! lol!!!

BTW, Machine, where are you these days? Ireland, right? Tell me how well they're doin financially...

I agree with the discrimination part but I have to say... Obama is sucking dick in the white house right now. Everything he promised... Change this, Change that, lower taxes, blah blah blah. Well it seems things are getting worse in some fields. Not exactly the change I had in mind!

[BgMc31]

I agree with the discrimination part but I have to say... Obama is sucking dick in the white house right now. Everything he promised... Change this, Change that, lower taxes, blah blah blah. Well it seems things are getting worse in some fields. Not exactly the change I had in mind!

Did you expect him to fulfill all his campaign promises in 2yrs? Did he not lower taxes to just about everyone including extending the Bush tax cuts to those who don't need them? Now, of course, he's in the pocket to the corporations, that's why he extended the tax cuts to the richest 1%. But he's only been in office for just over 2yrs. What change were you hoping for? And how is that sucking dick?

[amcon]

i use a product called syntek fuel additive, can buy it in stores i get it from a guy out of utah, any ways it cuts emmissions by 50 persent, and gets you 20 to 30 persent more fuel milage...

so the govnt know about this stuff but does nothing to mandate these helpful additives to our system... it just keeps handing money out for global warming and crap like that

[zabster151]

Again, wrong assumption. Can't blame Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. I know you guys want to blame everything on the guy, but you are completely misguided on this. Also nobodys on the gay train. Every president should stand up against discrimination, and not allowing a sizable segment of your populace from enjoying the same rights of everyone else is simply discrimination and wrong, regardless of how you feel about them or their lifestyles.

As far as securing borders, again you can't blame Obama. Check out the difference between Obama's budget and the Republican budget. Obama increases funding for border security and the Republicans decrease it. Again, stop drinking the Faux news coverage and educate yourselves.

America is great and only get any better. But if you want to leave and head to another European country who is much worse off, so be it. As a matter of fact...good riddance!!! lol!!!

BTW, Machine, where are you these days? Ireland, right? Tell me how well they're doin financially...

you really have no clue whats going on do you? don't you get it yet "president" are nothing but a front man,, the fed,Treasury, insurance companies, big corporation they are running the show, you are tuck in this main stream media government thing, cant you tell that president talk to you instead of for you. that's called a dictator, example "we the people" did not want the car companies to be bailed out. but are dictator did so it was so, 2nd "we the people" did not to bail out insurance companies but are dictator did so it was so. "we the people do want out of the iraq war but are dictator does not,

[BgMc31]

you really have no clue whats going on do you? don't you get it yet "president" are nothing but a front man,, the fed,Treasury, insurance companies, big corporation they are running the show, you are tuck in this main stream media government thing, cant you tell that president talk to you instead of for you. that's called a dictator, example "we the people" did not want the car companies to be bailed out. but are dictator did so it was so, 2nd "we the people" did not to bail out insurance companies but are dictator did so it was so. "we the people do want out of the iraq war but are dictator does not,

Ummmm, make up your mind, Zab. Is he a dictator or is a front man for the corporations? Can't be both? 2nd, at one time "we the people" didn't want integration, "we the people" didn't want to end slavery, "we the people" didn't want women to have the right to vote", "We the people" didn't want to enter WWII, the list goes on and on. The President is forced to make decisions that aren't always popular, sometimes they end up good, sometimes they don't.

And please don't insult my intelligence because I don't believe as you do. Why must you begin every statement with an insult?

[JohnnyVegas]

Ummmm, make up your mind, Zab. Is he a dictator or is a front man for the corporations? Can't be both? 2nd, at one time "we the people" didn't want integration, "we the people" didn't want to end slavery, "we the people" didn't want women to have the right to vote", "We the people" didn't want to enter WWII, the list goes on and on. The President is forced to make decisions that aren't always popular, sometimes they end up good, sometimes they don't.

So true. One of the things we depend on the federal government for is overriding the majority when the majority is wrong. Civil rights is the perfect example.

[BgMc31]

Zab, you seem to not understand the concept of a representative democracy. From your post, I assume you believe we live or should live in a pure democracy. A pure democracy is even less effective than a representative democracy because a pure democracy is tantamount to mob rule.

[Flagg]

A pure democracy is Anarchy.

Democracy as we interpret it is a victim of it's own brilliance and will eventually buckle under its own weight. When was free to be greedy a supposed right? A wise man once said that true democracy should be people free from the fear of hunger, freedom of oppression, freedom of fear. In the democratic west, we still have people that are homeless, that have no money, there is still oppresion. Where is the freedom from those things?

Intolerance, discourtesy and harshness are taboo in all good society and are surely contrary to the spirit of democracy. Ghandi

[BgMc31]

A pure democracy is Anarchy.

Democracy as we interpret it is a victim of it's own brilliance and will eventually buckle under its own weight. When was free to be greedy a supposed right? A wise man once said that true democracy should be people free from the fear of hunger, freedom of oppression, freedom of fear. In the democratic west, we still have people that are homeless, that have no money, there is still oppresion. Where is the freedom from those things?

Intolerance, discourtesy and harshness are taboo in all good society and are surely contrary to the spirit of democracy. Ghandi

FLAGG!!!! Brotha, that is some deep sh*t right there!!! WOW!!! No truer words have ever been spoken. If you don't mind, may I use that quote? If you PM me either you first name or initials, I will gladly give all the credit to you!!

[clayton2127]

From what I heard, Alaska has enough oil to supply the united states for like 50 years or even more. Drilling there would make gas prices cut down to like a 1/4 of what we are paying now but some asshole that shall remain nameless, wont support it.,. I drive 120 miles a day just for work and my truck gets about 18mpog on the highway.. i wish someone would do something or esle it wont even be worth it for me to go to work. I have a new baby on the way and a couple hundred a mont i could save on gas sure would help alot...

[Flagg]

FLAGG!!!! Brotha, that is some deep sh*t right there!!! WOW!!! No truer words have ever been spoken. If you don't mind, may I use that quote? If you PM me either you first name or initials, I will gladly give all the credit to you!!

Not a problem big guy, I shot you a PM.

[zabster151]

wtf are you all saying, you all have no clue and it shows. everyday

[BgMc31]

wtf are you all saying, you all have no clue and it shows. everyday

There you go with the insults again...PATHETIC!!!

[warchild]

you really have no clue whats going on do you? don't you get it yet "president" are nothing but a front man,, the fed,Treasury, insurance companies, big corporation they are running the show, you are tuck in this main stream media government thing, cant you tell that president talk to you instead of for you. that's called a dictator, example "we the people" did not want the car companies to be bailed out. but are dictator did so it was so, 2nd "we the people" did not to bail out insurance companies but are dictator did so it was so. "we the people do want out of the iraq war but are dictator does not,

here we go again with the conspiracy guy

[warchild]

From what I heard, Alaska has enough oil to supply the united states for like 50 years or even more. Drilling there would make gas prices cut down to like a 1/4 of what we are paying now but some asshole that shall remain nameless, wont support it.,. I drive 120 miles a day just for work and my truck gets about 18mpog on the highway.. i wish someone would do something or esle it wont even be worth it for me to go to work. I have a new baby on the way and a couple hundred a mont i could save on gas sure would help alot...

yea also there is more oil in idaho or ohio ,cant recall, than there is in the middle east.

[BgMc31]

There you go with the insults again...PATHETIC!!!

Yeah because according to you, you're the only one in the whole world who knows what's 'really' going on...right?

[zabster151]

hahaha you all are so stupid you have no i dead whats about to happen in America in the next 6 moths.. peace retards

[BgMc31]

Go back to jacking off to the Sims in your Mom's basement Zab!!!

[Flagg]

hahaha you all are so stupid you have no i dead whats about to happen in America in the next 6 moths.. peace retards

This sounds like an interesting challenge.

Tomorrow is March 1st.

September the 1st will be exactly 6 months from now. What do you expect is going to happen in that time Zab? Because I would be very much interested to know, and THEN revisit this thread on September the 1st to see if you are right.

[Phosphor]

A pure democracy is Anarchy.

Democracy as we interpret it is a victim of it's own brilliance and will eventually buckle under its own weight. When was free to be greedy a supposed right? A wise man once said that true democracy should be people free from the fear of hunger, freedom of oppression, freedom of fear. In the democratic west, we still have people that are homeless, that have no money, there is still oppresion. Where is the freedom from those things?

Intolerance, discourtesy and harshness are taboo in all good society and are surely contrary to the spirit of democracy. Ghandi

I've been gone a few days and it gets a bit incendiary. It's to be expected I guess. To quote Flagg above, I would like to reply to that. While I agree with the democracy standpoint, every country has variable degrees government leanings - while this country has true leanings towards capitalism and democracy, it certainly has other elements that create a system of checks and balances. This country is certainly not a true form of any one specific form of government. not perfect, for sure.

With that said, it is a pipe dream to think for a second that all people will one day will have money in their pockets and a roof over their heads - if only those rich basterds would stop being greedy. There is not enough money in the world. The people in these circumstances have the freedom to escape this predicament based on their decisions and actions and there is always an over-reach of government to take one persons money and giveth to the person in "need" to alleviate the issue. It is hardly ever 'alleviated'. There are enough programs off the taxpayers backs already to help them and they usually languish in their lifestyle when they get the assistance. When taking a handout, it degrades the person taking and hardens the one giving. That was an old saying. There was a time when people were too proud to take a handout and would only do so as last resort. Today, people have no issues getting their foodstamps in the form a credit card and get a free check twice a month. They are encouraged and given advice by the government workers and friends familier with the loopholes to take advantage of the system and remain reliant off everyone elses backs. Your right, by your standards, there is no freedom of oppression - the oppressed tax payers being forced to pay for the poor that usually keep their hands out wanting more. It's no longer and handup these days, just hand outs.

It goes hand in hand with unemployment benefits as well. I believe Denmark had a program where you could collect it for 5 whole years. Studies from it showed that right before the 5 years were up, people found jobs. After this information was digested by their government, they lowered it to 3 years. Magically, right before the 3 years were up, they found a job. Societies today in general are bread to take advantage of the system and feel no remorse, regardless of who is paying. If the actual 'greedy' top 1% earners were taxed beyond belief, do you think they would stay? No. It was done in an eastern state where they projected hundreds of millions of extra revenue. It failed, instead they lost hundreds of millions because they fled the state. If it was federal, they would flee the country and I don't blame them. Why should they fund a government bottomless pit? For people not to call them greedy and like them? For so many that look down upon the rich as greedy, the poor pay nothing in federal or state taxes and get money back each year to boot. Year after year, they take and don't give back and are content to piss and moan about the rich man. Then they have others taking their side in the name of justice and equality. The man with the money worked for it. Even if he inherited it, it was already taxed. Meanwhile, there is the poor guy getting his bi-weekly freebies, sitting on his ass and still bitching and moaning about the greedy rich dude. Who is worse.

I say if you want to give your wealth, go for it. Your 'free' to do so. Give up you aas reserves and sell your lcd on craiglist and give the cash to your favorite soup kitchen. The tax payers shouldn't be forced to do this by government mandate. Talk is cheap and anyone can cry about the poor and then don't put their money where their mouths are.

[2jz_calgary]

america is on its way down.. get out while you still can like i did

whered you go, canada isnt doin much better now thinkin of movin overseas with the fiancee.

[lovbyts]

wtf are you all saying, you all have no clue and it shows. everyday

Please let me make it clear for you. They are saying you are being an a$$hole and prick because anytime someone does not agree with your way of thinking all you can do is insult them like a 15yr old punk kid with a 1in dick.

Is it clear now?

Either cut the BS or before you can claim you are quitting the board again (empty threat) you will be banned.