So many cheat meal questions - my turn bitches!

[Damienm05]

Workout was grotesquely sweaty this morning. That's saying something since it was delts/traps/abs/calves - not legs, lol. No strength increase but I can't deny the pump was better than usual - I'll go into this below. Still, nothing to convince me that this was a necessary or even beneficial move. I simply enjoyed the meal, slept great, and woke up fuller in my face/neck with noticeable subcutaneous water increase around my pelvic bone especially.

Understand that my calories have been consistently above maintenance with an interesting set-up. Basically been running 6 of my 8 meals as keto. 6-8 oz. of fish, fibrous veggies, and 20g fat via healthy sources. Anyway, my pre/PWO meals each contain 60g carbs via WM starch as well as 50g whey isolate, and in the case of the pre-workout shake, 15g fat from coconut/macadamia/walnut nut oils to slow absorption. As such, conventional wisdom would state that this "carb-up" of sorts, would really be beneficial to my workout intensity and strength but the fact of the matter is - I'm already getting plenty of calories and energy (fat) on a daily basis for my sustained aerobic metabolism with just enough carbs to keep the engine firing on all cylinders when talking about anaerobic exercise at high intensity - ATP system/metabolism.

My finding: In this brief, informal, and possibly all too half-assed study - I've concluded that the need for a cheat meal/Re-feed, even on a carb-restriced diet, is minimal/nonexistent provided day-to-day caloric intake and intake of energy sources as needed to fuel bodybuilding pursuits is sufficient. My results would have been different if this were a true keto diet or other type of heavily calorie restricted carb-cycle. The fact remains, however, that I was not bearing the burden of starvation, fully depleted levels of muscle glycogen, electrolytes, or preparing for an athletic exertion of energy beyond normal (a marathon, NFL Sunday, double-OT hockey game, etc). Thus, don't let yourself justify meals like this when bulking or maintaining - you simply increase the odds of body fat increase. When cutting - keep them few and far between and only if you have a realistic, achievable goal of replenishing depleted muscle glycogen levels in preparation for such athletic exertion.

The end.

[gbrice75]

Workout was grotesquely sweaty this morning. That's saying something since it was delts/traps/abs/calves - not legs, lol. No strength increase but I can't deny the pump was better than usual - I'll go into this below. Still, nothing to convince me that this was a necessary or even beneficial move. I simply enjoyed the meal, slept great, and woke up fuller in my face/neck with noticeable subcutaneous water increase around my pelvic bone especially.

Understand that my calories have been consistently above maintenance with an interesting set-up. Basically been running 6 of my 8 meals as keto. 6-8 oz. of fish, fibrous veggies, and 20g fat via healthy sources. Anyway, my pre/PWO meals each contain 60g carbs via WM starch as well as 50g whey isolate, and in the case of the pre-workout shake, 15g fat from coconut/macadamia/walnut nut oils to slow absorption. As such, conventional wisdom would state that this "carb-up" of sorts, would really be beneficial to my workout intensity and strength but the fact of the matter is - I'm already getting plenty of calories and energy (fat) on a daily basis for my sustained aerobic metabolism with just enough carbs to keep the engine firing on all cylinders when talking about anaerobic exercise at high intensity - ATP system/metabolism.

My finding: In this brief, informal, and possibly all too half-assed study - I've concluded that the need for a cheat meal/Re-feed, even on a carb-restriced diet, is minimal/nonexistent provided day-to-day caloric intake and intake of energy sources as needed to fuel bodybuilding pursuits is sufficient. My results would have been different if this were a true keto diet or other type of heavily calorie restricted carb-cycle. The fact remains, however, that I was not bearing the burden of starvation, fully depleted levels of muscle glycogen, electrolytes, or preparing for an athletic exertion of energy beyond normal (a marathon, NFL Sunday, double-OT hockey game, etc). Thus, don't let yourself justify meals like this when bulking or maintaining - you simply increase the odds of body fat increase. When cutting - keep them few and far between and only if you have a realistic, achievable goal of replenishing depleted muscle glycogen levels in preparation for such athletic exertion.

The end.

Very interesting self-observation. However, the question begs to be asked - what is your current goal? You are eating above maintenance, and to my knowledge you have relatively low bodyfat, so I don't think you're cutting. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Where i'm going is this; you felt no added benefit in terms of strength, etc. However, if you were/are cutting, you wouldn't know the effect this had on bodyfat (leptin secretion specifically, as Reed was talking about) until having done it consistently for a month or so. What are your thoughts?

[Damienm05]

Very interesting self-observation. However, the question begs to be asked - what is your current goal? You are eating above maintenance, and to my knowledge you have relatively low bodyfat, so I don't think you're cutting. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Where i'm going is this; you felt no added benefit in terms of strength, etc. However, if you were/are cutting, you wouldn't know the effect this had on bodyfat (leptin secretion specifically, as Reed was talking about) until having done it consistently for a month or so. What are your thoughts?

I suppose I was remiss for not elaborating on my current goal. Basically, just trying to gain strength and lean mass slow/steady without any of the bloat/sweatiness/gas I'd experience on a typical 300g + carb/day diet. In general, I left out some pivotal info in that really triggered my interest was that I see everyone doing carb cycle diets wanting to schedule regular cheat meals. Not really to fuel the fat loss fire or with any knowledge of what leptin really is but merely because they think it's needed to keep the engine firing on all cylinders.

Therefore, I was killing two birds with one stone in A) wanting to eat a monster meal that included meat and B) wanting to prove that, as stated above, provided that day-to-day energy intake is sufficient, you don't need a re-feed to maintain optimal workout intensity/strength even if you're restricting carbs/calories. And again, talking about moderate restriction, not keto or a 1200 calorie/day starve.

Now, I have to concede; I'm so anal and strict about my diet when I am cutting that I've never implemented techniques for manipulating leptin secretion in order to prevent stalled fat loss or merely to optimize. I agree 100% that it's a good idea but now we're not really talking about a cheat meal, we're talking about first depleting the body of energy/glycogen fully and then over-compensating with nutrition via high starchy carbs/heavy insulin response. Most guys' cheat meals will never achieve that. But yeah, now that I'm finally mastering this, "it doesn't have to be all or nothing" concept; I think it is a good idea for those who have the willpower to shake off a heavy re-feed the next day. Also, I must emphasize it should always be few and far between and the results should be monitored extensively because everyone is different.

All I know is that, not talking about optimizing here, I've always achieved my fat loss goals quickly because when cutting, I don't cheat. More quickly than those who do. More quickly than when I did.