First Cycle in a long time

[jtuner77]

I am trying to cut and get down to about 8-10% Body fat and add 5-7lbs of lean muscle.

Here are my stats
Stats: 33
5'10"
188lbs
17% BF

I was thinking about taking Tren, Winstrol and ending with some clen/T3. I have read and been told I need Testosterone in my cycle and HCG as well.

I was planning on running 8-10 weeks but I am not sure how long to take the Test for and when to stop and what to take for PCT, I see so many different things to take for PCT and also should I take HCG so my nuts dont shrink?
I enjoy the benefits of winstrol but I dont really want to take test or tren but I have been told Test is needed and tren is great because it doesn't promote Gyno as I am VERY prone to gyno!!!!

Wk1 Tren 1ml EOD, 500mcg of Test
Wk2 Tren 1ml EOD, 500mcg of Test
Wk3 Tren 1ml EOD, 500mcg of Test
Wk4 Tren 1ml EOD, 500mcg of Test
Wk5 50mg Winstrol(oral), 500mcg of Test
Wk6 50mg Winstrol(oral), 500mcg of Test
Wk7 50mg Winstrol(oral), 500mcg of Test
Wk8 50mg Winstrol(oral), 500mcg of Test
Wk9 500mcg of Test, 80mcg of Clen, 25mcg T3
Wk10 500mcg of Test, 100mcg of Clen, 25mcg T3
Wk11 500mcg of Test, 120mcg of Clen, 25mcg T3
Wk12 500mcg of Test, 140mcg of Clen, 25mcg T3


So my questions are how does this cycle look and when to take HCG and PCT and what to take or if you have a better option, do note I already ahve the winny tabs so i dont want to not use them.

[Times Roman]

OK... I see you were 31 back in 2008. It would be helpful if you updated your stats in your profile saving me 5 minutes of trying to figure out your age.00m

The standard cycle of test is more like this

500mg test cyp or enth every week
for 12 weeks

others can help you with HCG, since I've never personally taken, and will not be a parrot by simply relaying second hand information to you from others. Maybe others can help out on this one?

Since the half lives of
enth = 10.5 days
cyp = 12 days
then you begin your pct the number of half life days after your last pin of what ever type test you use. Once this amount of time has elapsed, then the minimum pct, imo, would be 4 weeks of nolva 20mg per day, preferably split in half

you can do further research on PCT here...
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...-CYCLE-THERAPY)

Good luck!
---Roman

[fabiog]

first of all i dont advice you to get back starting with tren left it for a 2nd cycle
a better protocol IMO:

1-10 500mg test enth
1-4 50mg win
7-10 50mg win
safer

i always frontload cycles so 1g at first dosage.


the most secure protocol for HCG is:

500ui 2x week all cycle
dont forget to take 1pill 10mg tamox every day dont following this gives you a great risk to shutdown LH production.

HCG is defenitely not for a come back!!!


take care,
Fabio

[Turkish Juicer]

Since the half lives of
enth = 10.5 days
cyp = 12 days
then you begin your pct the number of half life days after your last pin of what ever type test you use. Once this amount of time has elapsed, then the minimum pct, imo, would be 4 weeks of nolva 20mg per day, preferably split in half

You are providing members with incorrect information about half lifes of compounds. Those numbers stated above neither represent the half lifes nor the biological lifes of the subjected compounds, as a matter of fact. Half life of Test E is approx. 4-6 days, whereas the half of of Test Cyp is about 6-7. Half life largely depends on the individual as revealed by clinical tests, therefore there is only valid approximation as opposed to precision when it comes to the concept of half life.

At any rate, one should start PCT not based on the half life but on the biological life of the compund. For instance, this would be 15-16 days after the last injection of Test E. If one starts his PCT based on the half life of the compound, we may as well call it EF (epic fail), not PCT since there is no point in trying to restore one's HTPA without making sure that the AAS is no more biologically active.

Why would you split a 20 mg Nolvadex pill in half, preferably? Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) has an elimination half-life of approximately seven days, which is in fact a considerably long half life for any chemical compound. There is absolutely no point in splitting Nolvadex in half.

Pharmacokinetics is a scientific field of specialization and requires concrete science to generate and support the information it reveals. It should be taken seriously and made good use of it.

[jtuner77]

OK... I see you were 31 back in 2008. It would be helpful if you updated your stats in your profile saving me 5 minutes of trying to figure out your age.00m

The standard cycle of test is more like this

500mg test cyp or enth every week
for 12 weeks

others can help you with HCG, since I've never personally taken, and will not be a parrot by simply relaying second hand information to you from others. Maybe others can help out on this one?

Since the half lives of
enth = 10.5 days
cyp = 12 days
then you begin your pct the number of half life days after your last pin of what ever type test you use. Once this amount of time has elapsed, then the minimum pct, imo, would be 4 weeks of nolva 20mg per day, preferably split in half

you can do further research on PCT here...
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...-CYCLE-THERAPY)

Good luck!
---Roman

Stats: 33
5'10"
188lbs
17% BF

[jtuner77]

first of all i dont advice you to get back starting with tren left it for a 2nd cycle
a better protocol IMO:

1-10 500mg test enth
1-4 50mg win
7-10 50mg win
safer

i always frontload cycles so 1g at first dosage.


the most secure protocol for HCG is:

500ui 2x week all cycle
dont forget to take 1pill 10mg tamox every day dont following this gives you a great risk to shutdown LH production.

HCG is defenitely not for a come back!!!


take care,
Fabio

Is AR-R Tamox any good? I can source most things but I haven't a clue where to get my HCG......SCRATCH THAT, found it, rape prices though I think I will try your cycle because to be frank I just want to get cut and build up my biceps a little not looking to get huge and not fit into my clothes anymore!!!

[Times Roman]

You are providing members with incorrect information about half lifes of compounds. Those numbers stated above neither represent the half lifes nor the biological lifes of the subjected compounds, as a matter of fact. Half life of Test E is approx. 4-6 days, whereas the half of of Test Cyp is about 6-7. Half life largely depends on the individual as revealed by clinical tests, therefore there is only valid approximation as opposed to precision when it comes to the concept of half life.

At any rate, one should start PCT not based on the half life but on the biological life of the compund. For instance, this would be 15-16 days after the last injection of Test E. If one starts his PCT based on the half life of the compound, we may as well call it EF (epic fail), not PCT since there is no point in trying to restore one's HTPA without making sure that the AAS is no more biologically active.

Why would you split a 20 mg Nolvadex pill in half, preferably? Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) has an elimination half-life of approximately seven days, which is in fact a considerably long half life for any chemical compound. There is absolutely no point in splitting Nolvadex in half.

Pharmacokinetics is a scientific field of specialization and requires concrete science to generate and support the information it reveals. It should be taken seriously and made good use of it.

I'm glad you brought this up. I double checked the website where I was pulling this information, and yep... I wrote it down correctly. So it wasn't me writing it down wrong. So I dug a little deeper, and found three seperate lists with conflicting half lives... I did find a list that supports your numbers as well
but not really a list, more like a large narrative of all the esthers and half lives.

anyways, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I am wrong. Thanks for calling me out on this, and am always willing to learn from others.

Favor? PM me a link (if you have one) of a list that is concise?
I see the one in our steroid profile section. but not concise.

Warm regards,
---Roman

[jtuner77]

Anymore feedback from anyone else?

[fabiog]

you can always do a short cycle

1-4 prop 100mg EOD
1-4 50mg winstrol (if you can get 10mg pills split it 20mg 22h 20mg 7h 10mg 15h)

win has a half life of 9h

then PCT

if its not enough yet you can start another short cycle in 2 months btw that time you might take some supplements plus diet that will keep improvements.

i see much ppl around doing 12 15 18 weeks then go after that will expose you in an unnecessary way.
do the right PCT keep dieting keep weighting that will do your gains and made you motivated.



take care,
Fabio

[Turkish Juicer]

Favor? PM me a link (if you have one) of a list that is concise?
I see the one in our steroid profile section. but not concise.

Warm regards,
---Roman

OK, I will pm you a correct and precise list.

I know you are merely motivated by helping others in this forum, especially newbies. I am sure it would only break your heart to see someone hurting themselves due to intake of incorrect info such as starting PCT too early. People need correct and precise info about the pharmacokinetics of the compounds they are using or about to use in order to be able to schedule their cycles correctly, needles to say.

PS: Info about half lifes and biological lifes of compunds in steroid profile section of this site is actually pretty solid.

[marcus300]

Your better cutting naturally and then spring boarding into a lean mass cycle, you don't need to use all those drugs to cut do it naturally with the assistance of a few fat burning compounds and then hit a cycle.

[jtuner77]

Well I would just to Clen/T3 but for some reason when I do clen I cant sustain cardio or at least a higher HR. Is it ok to do cardio at a lower HR when on Clen Marcus300?

[marcus300]

Well I would just to Clen/T3 but for some reason when I do clen I cant sustain cardio or at least a higher HR. Is it ok to do cardio at a lower HR when on Clen Marcus300?

Aim for 60%-70% of your max HR

[jtuner77]

so 220-33=187X.70=130bpm? I normally do 153-157bpm. Maybe I was overtraining on my cardio before?