25 Y/O Male, first cycle ever. Not afraid of the needle

[Windex]

complete bs

Half BS Half truth actually. Two examples of people I can think of against the arguement are Machine & Buffgator, but they also have many more years experience and knowledge compared to random joe blow @ Cycle #1 with 18% Bodyfat. Secondly, estrogen is found in adipose tissue, more fat = higher ratio of Estrogen : Testosterone in the body. This is actually what causes stretch marks, which is why you see a lot of overweight men with stretch marks.

Secondly, a partial reason why so many advocate against cycling @ a high bodyfat is because you're not showing dedication enough dedication to your diet to get the numbers down.

[5x10]

Half BS Half truth actually. Two examples of people I can think of against the arguement are Machine & Buffgator, but they also have many more years experience and knowledge compared to random joe blow @ Cycle #1 with 18% Bodyfat. Secondly, estrogen is found in adipose tissue, more fat = higher ratio of Estrogen : Testosterone in the body. This is actually what causes stretch marks, which is why you see a lot of overweight men with stretch marks.

Secondly, a partial reason why so many advocate against cycling @ a high bodyfat is because you're not showing dedication enough dedication to your diet to get the numbers down.

im using real word experience
every cycle i have ever done, i have gotten leaner on

my response of complete bs is to the poster saying more sides and no results
more sides? what sides have i incurred that 5% of my bodyfat would have prevented? ive done the blood work, no gyno, no high bp
what extra sides? a little more estrogen

and then he says, no results
complete bs, ive gained 20lbs and my waist is now smaller
my bb military incline went from 275 for 2 to sets of 8 with 275
people at work and in the gym notice, they come talk to me, tell me i look good, making good progress, etc

the only reason of increased risks from being at a higher bf or higher weight is the potential for higher bp
and for every one guy at 18% doing a cycle is 5-10 160lbs at 12% that dont know how to eat, and complain of not gaining weight
truth is, people have different motives on why to cycle and there is no real justification for the recreational use of the drug

[Shol'va]

im using real word experience
every cycle i have ever done, i have gotten leaner on

my response of complete bs is to the poster saying more sides and no results
more sides? what sides have i incurred that 5% of my bodyfat would have prevented? ive done the blood work, no gyno, no high bp
what extra sides? a little more estrogen

and then he says, no results
complete bs, ive gained 20lbs and my waist is now smaller
my bb military incline went from 275 for 2 to sets of 8 with 275
people at work and in the gym notice, they come talk to me, tell me i look good, making good progress, etc

the only reason of increased risks from being at a higher bf or higher weight is the potential for higher bp
and for every one guy at 18% doing a cycle is 5-10 160lbs at 12% that dont know how to eat, and complain of not gaining weight
truth is, people have different motives on why to cycle and there is no real justification for the recreational use of the drug

Nor motivation. I don't see anyone out at night trying to hook up with their dealer so they can do a night of roids. Oxys and weed yes but not steroids.... I can hear someone now, dude I got some roids last night and stayed up partying, but I think I got ripped off cause I didn't get a buzz out of it at all...

[THE-DET-OAK]

im using real word experience
every cycle i have ever done, i have gotten leaner on

my response of complete bs is to the poster saying more sides and no results
more sides? what sides have i incurred that 5% of my bodyfat would have prevented? ive done the blood work, no gyno, no high bp
what extra sides? a little more estrogen

and then he says, no results
complete bs, ive gained 20lbs and my waist is now smaller
my bb military incline went from 275 for 2 to sets of 8 with 275
people at work and in the gym notice, they come talk to me, tell me i look good, making good progress, etc

the only reason of increased risks from being at a higher bf or higher weight is the potential for higher bp
and for every one guy at 18% doing a cycle is 5-10 160lbs at 12% that dont know how to eat, and complain of not gaining weight
truth is, people have different motives on why to cycle and there is no real justification for the recreational use of the drug

I agree with 5x10. yea waiting to get to a lower BF first is better, but that in no way means that you will have sides and no results. do the chances of excessive aromatization go up? a little. thats not to say someone at 9% wont get excessive aroma either. either way thats what AI's are for............

i dont see anything wrong with 2-3 shakes a day either, yea real food would be better, but using shake as a snack is no big deal. sometimes i cant wait 2 hours to eat again, the shake will hold me over.

[Beeb]

Thanks for all the input guys,

After all the reading I have done I am going to hold off a little on the gear and ensure that my diet is 100%.

I went back to the gym and had them redo my BF% test after I looked at a bunch of pictures and thought I was way leaner than 18%. After two more tests they have me pegged at 15%, which still leaves room for improvement.

I will keep everyone updated with my progress through this thread but like I said, I will hold off for a bit and ensure that I am maxing my gains naturally first then ill add the gear and get to where I really want to be.

Thanks for all your input this site is an amazing resource

[lovbyts]

im using real word experience
every cycle i have ever done, i have gotten leaner on

my response of complete bs is to the poster saying more sides and no results
more sides? what sides have i incurred that 5% of my bodyfat would have prevented? ive done the blood work, no gyno, no high bp
what extra sides? a little more estrogen

and then he says, no results
complete bs, ive gained 20lbs and my waist is now smaller
my bb military incline went from 275 for 2 to sets of 8 with 275
people at work and in the gym notice, they come talk to me, tell me i look good, making good progress, etc

the only reason of increased risks from being at a higher bf or higher weight is the potential for higher bp
and for every one guy at 18% doing a cycle is 5-10 160lbs at 12% that dont know how to eat, and complain of not gaining weight
truth is, people have different motives on why to cycle and there is no real justification for the recreational use of the drug

Some of your real world experiences are still questionable and not exactly what the board is about. We dont typically recommend the biggest, best cycle especially for a 1st time user. We typically try to keep to the basics for cycle and safety meaning being in the best shape before a cycle to get the most out of it starting with Test only. Suggesting a Test/Daca for the first cycle isn't such a good idea even if it worked for you in the real world. Being 18% body fat does not mean you wont get results but it means you wont get as good of results as if you where 12%. If you are 18% your diet is not even close to where it should be so your gains will be diminished. At 12% your diet is pretty good and your gains should be much better, lean muscle mass instead of partial bloat. Adding Deca as well as being at 18% you can expect quite a bit of bloat I would expect.

I agree with giving it a little more time getting your diet squared away and body fat down so you can see better results and more bang for your $$