Newbie on a completely different cycle than I've seen recommended

[Adelsud]

Anyway, Stats. Weighed today. 6'1" 240lbs. Age 35. Body fat? No idea but I'm guessing around 25% given that most of my weight from the 226 point is probably body fat with water weight making up a few pounds.

Like I said: I'm doing the cycle. I'm working out. I'm currently eating well - 2,200 calorie a day diet. Heavy on Fiber and protein.

So, given that: I do appreciate any additional advice.

[alexISthrowed]

This is intense. I DEFINITELY appreciate the massive amount of feedback. Quick history. I'm overweight - it's a pretty recent development, though. I got divorced 6 months ago, drank too much and bloated up. I've got a solid diet plan, quit drinking and work out regularly (as in 4 times a week.) I'm 6'1" but at a really good point I weighed 226 and was 14% body fat. I'm a pretty big guy at the best of times. I had a 14 minute two mile time and could do 80 push ups and 100 sit ups in two minutes (meaning 2 minutes for each exercise). This wasn't that long ago I did the test. Some of y'all might recognize those numbers from the Army Physical Fitness Test. I do just fine at that.

So, assuming I'm going to do a cycle - thank all of you very much for your concern and advice not to - Just start with Test E. or Test P?

I have plenty to do a 10 or 12 week regimen. Then worry about a cutting cycle? Also, the Masteron is there because I do NOT want to bloat. Does that have any place in a cycle?

I would try and diet down to 15-16% at least before running a cycle imo. An ai will stop the bloat better than masteron will, theres really no need for it here and it's epensive.

[JohnnyVegas]

I would do 12 weeks if Test E and 8 weeks if Prop.

You might want to lean out first. Definitely read up on how to eat for growth.

Make sure you have AI and PCT in hand. Do not start without them. You never know when you will need to stop the cycle early due to an injury, family emergency or something like a spike in BP (happened to me).

Bloating should be controlled with an AI and proper diet.

[Adelsud]

Thanks, Johnny. For everyone: Yes, I don't currently have high blood pressure but I got a months supply of lisinopril and a month of Beta Blockers just in case. My roommate has a monitor. It's a concern - especially as you get older. I swear - I did (some) research.

[Adelsud]

What's AI and PCT?

[swm1972]

Good luck with your cycle man. It's your life and body so it isn't my place to try to dictate to you how to live it. Keep an AI on hand. You might see some estrogenic related sides. Adex or letro would be a wise investment. I would really not ramp the doses. Your best bet is to maintain level hormone concentrations. Those fluctuations can actually lead to more side effects. Especially acne.

Sorry your thread went to shit and became a flame fest. I was only trying to answer the questions asked without trying to be all self righteous by telling you that you aren't ready to do something I myself have done a number of times. Your grown. And it's simply not my place. And it's not particularly in my nature to be condescending.

Again good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[Adelsud]

Never mind. I got it - Post Cycle Therapy. I got it on hand. I'll get the name of the compounds together and post them. I do know it's three different compounds and they're all orals.

[Adelsud]

Thanks guys. I'll read over all the replies. Later tonight, I'll see if I can synthesize a modified cycle. Problem is - I'm one week into this one now. Would dropping the Masteron be a problem?

[Adelsud]

And I've got plenty of everything. Enough for 22 weeks at 500mg a week of each product.

[swm1972]

What's AI and PCT?

AI aromatise inhibitor. Pct post cycle therapy.

Bro read up on these subject before pinning. These are way more important then any other aspect of this game.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Just for future reference, it's pretty much never a good idea to take cycle advise from your source.

And AI = aromatase inhibitor. Very important to keep estrogen under control while on cycle.

[alexISthrowed]

Dropping the mast won't hurt, how much are you currently running?

[Adelsud]

.25ml = 25mg EOD

[Adelsud]

That leaves me with Test E and Test P (By the way, Test P feels like I'm trying to shove a golf ball into my muscles - If I have to choose between them the Test E is definitely a less painful shot.)

[Adelsud]

Roger. I got it. I've got something called - I believe Novaldex.

[JohnnyVegas]

Sounds like you are getting it straightened out. Definitely do a lot of reading. You will want to know what you are putting in your body and you should really read about eating right. It makes a difference.

[Kansas City Boy]

Get some Arimidex for your AI and run it at .25mg ed while on test. It will reduce bloating and side effects.


I agree with the majority that the test e @ 500mg/week is your best option. Definitely wait on the masteron, and the test prop isn't a horrible AAS for a beginner, only problem for beginners is shooting it every day or every other day.


You body fat comp is high; however, if your blood pressure is in the healthy range... I see no problem with 400-500mg/week of test enth.


Sometimes a cycle of test is what someone needs to get their health back. It will definitely motivate you to get in the gym!!


Watch your sodium intake while you are cycling if you are truly concerned about bloating.



Sorry about all the BS that happened earlier in the thread.... There have been a lot of disrespectful newbies on the forum lately. I'm happy you are not one of them. Just use this site as a educational tool, there is a ton of valuable experience and knowledge on here.


Good Luck!! Keep us posted

[alexISthrowed]

.25ml = 25mg EOD

Pretty useless amount of masteron. Your really not going to get any benefit from that dose.

[Adelsud]

So: Test E. 100mg every 2 days? I'll admit it. I'm a ***** - I got the smallest f'ing needles I could get away with so I'm capped at 100mg per pin. Obviously, I can do it twice in a row.

If I was doing Masteron, what's a good amount and how often?

My source kind of went along with me on this one - I read on the steroid profiles here that it was the authors' "FAVORITE" Anabolic/Androgenic compound. It sounded like very, very few side effects and none of the estrogen related side effects that the Test gives you. Obviously, the stuff's not cheap, so it wasn't hard to persuade him to try and build it into a cycle for me.

[BBrian]

As to Masteron being the author's (Peter Von Mal, aka Big Cat) favorite, ironically there are several compounds that he has written as being his "favorite". Rather comical really. Another important thing to note about these steroid profiles are that a fair amount of them contain outdated information due to the fact that their date of writing are several years old. The profile on HCG is a very good example of this, in other words don't follow the advice therein.

Someone here stated that taking test prop and test enanthate in the same cycle seemed ridiculous, but in fact this is a great approach to a cycle. The simple fact is that for a beginner, using only a single, long acting ester such as enanthate is simply convenient and easy, seeing as you only have to inject it 1-2 times per week, consequently being an excellent introduction to a process that can be quite intimidating at first. But that person also stated that taking enanthate on a short cycle was absurd, and in that statement he was quite correct. Long acting esters such as enanthate and cypionate take several weeks (3-5) to fully "kick in", that is to say that it takes that long before you begin to feel and see the benefits in the gym. Therefore for a short cycle, propionate is the drug of choice. At any rate, as others pointed out, I absolutely agree in that the cycle that your source advised is a very poor approach indeed. Most often, a first-timer is advised to inject approximately 500mg of test for 12 weeks, ingesting Aromasin or Arimidex as an Aromotase Inhibitor throughout to prevent estrogen levels from rising to an unhealthy level, and followed by a 4 week PCT protocol.

As for the bickering, we have many members here who are overwhelmed with a sense of pretentiousness; they seem to think that steroids should be reserved for only the most fit people, when in fact AAS is a great tool for someone who is not quite there, or sometimes not even close (everything in moderation), or have erroneously elected themselves as moderators when in fact we have mods who have been hand-picked, and for good reasons. We also have members who are very passionate about helping the inexperienced AAS user choose the cycle (or not to cycle) that best fits their individual situation and sensitive needs in order to help them not only reach their goals to the best of their abilities, but also to help them avoid unwanted damage to their body. And very often this passion transforms into heated arguments. I happen to believe that swm1972 and The Bear happen to fall into the later category, they really do want to help you. But sometimes people with the best intentions make mistakes. The ones who fall into the first category tend to respond with the same unconstructive one-liners over and over again, I guess it's a matter of a misplaced ego or something. Anyway, you'll be able to pick them out easily enough. But enough ranting.

As for pain associated with propionate and enanthate, if they are the same brand and both suspended in oil, there actually shouldn't be a difference at all. Seeing as you're pinning virgin muscles, that in itself is actually what you're dealing with. As you inject more and more, you'll figure out which injection sites prove to be more comfortable than others, and as time goes on you'll find these sites becoming less and less painful/sore. You'll also eventually braven up and opt for pins more suitable for your cause, i.e. 23-25 gauge needles. Also, if I were you I'd follow these guy's advice on Masteron, particularly Alex. He's very knowledgeable and you'll never see any bs in his posts.

Good luck and keep asking questions. You're one big step closer to performing a proper cycle than you were going off of your source's advice. I don't often generalize but I'll be damned if they ever give good advice.

[Adelsud]

Thank you very much again.

All-right. I'm dropping the Masteron. I'm kind of sad because I saw my roommate take it by itself for 8 weeks. He didn't get huge or anything but it looked like his skin turned into a latex glove and shrink-wrapped around his muscles. His 2-mile time dropped pretty nicely as well.

So, I have Test E and Test P. If it doesn't hurt to use them both, I'm doing it. Now - close to the final question. Can I just continue with 50mg of each EOD? I know the Test P basically requires this and you can go 250mg twice a week with the Test E. But, does it really lessen total blood serum levels to inject Test E EOD. I understand people don't want to but if I'm getting poked every other day any way, it would be convenient to have them both happen at once.

This would be my new cycle.

50mg. Test E EOD
50mg. Test P EOD

Do the Test P for 8 weeks.
At Week 9 continue with the Test E

Now, at week 9, do I just stick with 200mg. a week of Test E (That's what I've basically been getting this whole cycle). Do I ramp it up so it equals the 400mg of Test I was getting up until then?

Do I finally start using the Masteron at a larger dose to keep the water weight off?

Also, I have Novaldex. I had to call the source to ask him what he gave me for PCT. Can I take 25mg of Novaldex every day during this cycle as an AI?

I feel like I'm getting closer here. Everything I've read doesn't seem to indicate I "shouldn't" take the Test E and Test P together - just that it's not common for a first cycle.

[BBrian]

Pinning the enanthate every other day is perfectly fine and should actually result in an every so slight greater balance of test/blood serum. At the end of the week, you're still injecting the same amount of test, but by splitting up the doses you're accomplishing the same thing that you are by administering propionate in this manner, although it is far less necessary than prop.

Forget about Masteron having anything to do with counteracting water weight for this cycle. This is why you're using an aromatase inhibitor. Masteron can be used as an ancillary compound to combat water retention, but there is no point in throwing it in at the end of your cycle. You won't benefit from it. Instead, wait until a later cycle to experiment with Mas.

Also, I think you have something a little backwards here. You should cease injecting the enanthate BEFORE the prop, and continue the prop until the very end. The reason for this is so that all compounds will be leaving your body at approximately the same time. Let me explain it this way; Enanthate takes approximately 15 days to clear your system. That means that you cannot begin PCT until 15 days after your last Enanthate injection. Propionate, on the other hand, requires a mere 3 days to clear your system. Therefore you can being PCT much sooner, which means less time allowing the test levels in your body to drop.

So, if you're doing a 12 week cycle, stop the enanthate at week 10, and continue with only prop. Three days after your last prop injection, begin PCT. And yes, I would continue with 400mg of test prop for those final two weeks.

Now, Nolvadex is not an AI, it is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). SERMs compete for the estrogen receptors, meaning that they leave estrogen floating around in your body with nothing to do but whine about the lousy gift their boyfriend gave them for Valentine's Day. AI's, Aromostase Inhibitors, actually compete for the aromatase enzyme, preventing estrogen from being produced in the first place. An AI is what you want to take on-cycle to prevent that disgusting, carcinogenic estrogen from building up in your system for 12 weeks, even if it doesn't get a chance to interact with their respective receptors and create side effects. Take either Aromasin or Arimidex on-cycle, those are your best AI's. Take Nolvadex and Clomid, your SERMs, during PCT, and take them for four weeks.

Finally, like I stated previously, avoiding two different esters serves nothing but to make a cycle simplified. If you feel comfortable injecting them in the doses and times that they should, then I would actually prefer to go that route.

[Adelsud]

I would say the single best thing I've actually learned from this is that I went into this without an AI. Getting one today. Embarrassing and I'm glad I came onto the forum.

Test E and Test P at current quantities for 10 weeks.

I'm stopping the Test E at 10 weeks, then doubling up on the Test P for the last two weeks.

Wait a day and start the PCT.

I'm feeling pretty satisfied here. Thank you very much for your help. I'll hop back on here in 6-8 months when I'm ready for my next cycle so I can figure out what the hell to do with this brutally expensive Masteron.

[BBrian]

I would say the single best thing I've actually learned from this is that I went into this without an AI. Getting one today. Embarrassing and I'm glad I came onto the forum.

Test E and Test P at current quantities for 10 weeks.

I'm stopping the Test E at 10 weeks, then doubling up on the Test P for the last two weeks.

Wait a day and start the PCT.

I'm feeling pretty satisfied here. Thank you very much for your help. I'll hop back on here in 6-8 months when I'm ready for my next cycle so I can figure out what the hell to do with this brutally expensive Masteron.

Good man, good to see that we could help someone do this the right way. And oh, make sure that you don't start your pct until at least 3 days after your last propionate injection. Enjoy your cycle!

[lovbyts]

Thanks fireguy. I doubt I am going to let a few guys that have been registered for a month or two run me off. I've been here for 5 years. My advise is based on personal experience and is sound.

Isn't that statement hypocritical since you continually ask for Scientific proof from everyone else and say personal experience even if it's the general consensus is worthless?

[The Bear 79]

Good catch lovbyts. I also like how he is under the impression that the length of his membership here makes him more powerful or smarter, he & SG2009 must be drinking from the same glass..............

[Adelsud]

Hey there, I wanted to follow up on this since the forum was helpful.

1.) 6 weeks seemed short after reading all the posts. I went to 10 weeks. I cut out the Test E entirely. I took just Test P and Masteron. I took 150mg of each EOD. Both together - one injection. I did a 5 week post cycle. I took Letrozole as my AI, actually.

2.) For all of you who said to diet down before even trying this, you were sort of right and sort of wrong. You were right in that I didn't lose weight. I gained 10lbs. And, I was hardcore about my diet. However, this stuff DOES burn fat if you're exercising. I was relentlessly hungry but I went from about 25% body fat to about 18% body fat in 2 months. I know this because I went to the doctor. He said my BMI was 33 - almost obese given my weight and height. He looked at me almost cross-eyed so I suggested he do the little electronic body fat testing thing. 18%. At that point, I'm pretty sure he suspected and I should have trusted him but I just kept silent. He gave me a lecture about how carrying excessive muscle can also stress the heart out almost as much as excessive fat. He strongly suggested I do more cardio and just lose weight - regardless of whether it was muscle or fat.

3.) I kept a journal. I do know that steroids work for me. However, it's always been extremely easy for me to layer on muscle. I've just never been able to add muscle without a corresponding amount of fat. I still can't figure out if it's the sheer mental ease of working out that allows you to push your own body farther or if your muscles are responding so much better it's easier to work out. In other words, I don't know how much is mental and how much is actual physical change.

4.) Lots of chicks dig big guys. This was the most pleasant surprise. I really just wanted to lose some fat, be more energetic, and be able to play tennis longer. But my libido went out of control. I went out to bars, I hung out and was rewarded - consistently. I felt like I was 18 again. And, finally. I haven't lost any measurable amount of muscle. I would like to do this again. I had a co-worker tell me my arms were "freakish". I'm a little paranoid about calling attention to myself but...

5.) Downsides: I already took BP medicine. This kept my BP under control but it did creep up. I used to have excellent cholesterol numbers. Sadly, those crept up as well. If I choose to do another cycle, I'm going to have to choose to also go on Statins. I did not lose any hair. No signs of gyno. However, I did get some acne on my upper back. Not severe at all - but at 35 years old, any acne at all isn't really natural.

I'd really like to thank the people on this forum. Especially BBrian. Excellent voice of moderation. I'm glad I got feedback. Also, Steroids is just a tool. They allow you to work harder than you ever thought possible. But, if you don't actually do the work, you've just flushed $400-$500 for a cycle and PCT down the drain.

Thanks again everyone!

[Adelsud]

And, finally - BBrian. I ended up not following your advice exactly on a cycle. Even though I thought it was excellent. However, for cycle 2, anything you've got to say is definitely appreciated.