Cardio Question for Clean Bulk

[Hulk54]

I'm currently on a clean bulk, trying to gain muscle while maintaining my bf% or possibly decreasing it a little. Either way, the bf% is not what I'm concerned with. What I'm concerned with is whether or not I should do cardio after my lift sessions along with my individual cardio days or should I simply just take the cardio during lift days out?

My weekly workout schedule:

Monday=Chest/Triceps/20 Min Jog
Tuesday=Morning and Afternoon Cardio (20 Min Jog at fat burning heart rate)
Wednesday=Biceps/Back/20 Min Jog
Thursday=Morning and Afternoon Cardio (20 Min Jog at fat burning heart rate)
Friday=Legs/Shoulders/20 Min Jog
Saturday=Optional Cardio Day
Sunday=Rest

Here's what I'm thinking of doing:

Monday=Chest/Triceps
Tuesday= Cardio (20 Min HIIT)
Wednesday=Biceps/Back
Thursday=Cardio (20 Min HIIT)
Friday=Legs/Shoulders
Saturday=Optional Cardio Day
Sunday=Rest

What do you guys think? What would you guys do? I'm open to any suggestions.

[Razor]

Fat loss starts around 123-127bpm after 20 minutes so if your only doing 20 minutes your only conditioning your heart and lunges ...I do 30 min cardio 2 times a day at the range I spoke of earlier and it has no effect on gaining muscle

[FireGuy]

If he is doing HIIT (which he stated he is proposing) he is burning more fat in 20 minutes than you are burning in 30 minutes of light intensity. To the OP, there is no magic amount that works for everyone. You need to find the amount that is just enough to keep you from adding bodyfat. If you want to eat a bit more add in more cardio, if you want to do less cardio drop your calories.

[FireGuy]

Fat loss starts around 123-127bpm after 20 minutes so if your only doing 20 minutes your only conditioning your heart and lunges ...I do 30 min cardio 2 times a day at the range I spoke of earlier and it has no effect on gaining muscle

This is another common repeated fallacy. You use fat as an energy source 24 hours a day. Many believe it takes 20 minutes or so to burn through available glycogen before your body will burn stored bodyfat as an energy source. This too can be circumvented with fasted cardio, PWO cardio or cardio on a ketogenic diet.

[Razor]

I see no fat loss if I do 20min of cardio and for that matter fasted cardio puts you in a state of glycogen defficiancy and your cardiac output is less than if you were not in that state..you can do more having proper nutrition while doing cardio without fasting

[M302_Imola]

I see no fat loss if I do 20min of cardio and for that matter fasted cardio puts you in a state of glycogen defficiancy and your cardiac output is less than if you were not in that state..you can do more having proper nutrition while doing cardio without fasting

Razr what I believe Fireguy is trying to say is if glycogen levels are already low or depleted (morning or pwo cardio) then your body begins to burn fat immediately and not after the so called 20 min range. Have you tried morning fasted cardio? IF not, you should really consider it if you're cutting or lean bulking. Working in a few sessions a week of fasted cardio really sheds the fat right off of me and I'm able to retain muscle as well. This is the protocol I follow: wake up and pin peptides (100mcg GHRP-2/mod GRF), ingest about 5g of BCAA's or straight leucine, pop a 200mg caffeine pill (optional), drink a fair amount of water, and then wait about 30 mins to start cardio. At this point, I use a HR monitor and keep my HR around 125-130 BPM for 30 mins. I then either wait and hour (you will burn off more fatty acids this way) or immediately have breakfast. Anyhow, give it a shot and let me know what you think.

[Sgt. Hartman]

The reason you don't see fat loss at 20 min of LIC is just because you haven't burned any significant amount of calories.

Cardiac output is reduced from an 8 hour fast? Ridiculous. Cardiac output will be determined by the bodies' needs for whatever exercise is being performed.

[Razor]

Razr what I believe Fireguy is trying to say is if glycogen levels are already low or depleted (morning or pwo cardio) then your body begins to burn fat immediately and not after the so called 20 min range. Have you tried morning fasted cardio? IF not, you should really consider it if you're cutting or lean bulking. Working in a few sessions a week of fasted cardio really sheds the fat right off of me and I'm able to retain muscle as well. This is the protocol I follow: wake up and pin peptides (100mcg GHRP-2/mod GRF), ingest about 5g of BCAA's or straight leucine, pop a 200mg caffeine pill (optional), drink a fair amount of water, and then wait about 30 mins to start cardio. At this point, I use a HR monitor and keep my HR around 125-130 BPM for 30 mins. I then either wait and hour (you will burn off more fatty acids this way) or immediately have breakfast. Anyhow, give it a shot and let me know what you think.

Sweet will it.
Thanks imola

[Revelations]

I decreased my BF% with PWO cardio for 20 mins @ 3 x wk..it works for me, while keeping muscle mass..basically trial and error until I saw a difference. Just play around with it until u see what work for u.

[Razor]

Razr what I believe Fireguy is trying to say is if glycogen levels are already low or depleted (morning or pwo cardio) then your body begins to burn fat immediately and not after the so called 20 min range. Have you tried morning fasted cardio? IF not, you should really consider it if you're cutting or lean bulking. Working in a few sessions a week of fasted cardio really sheds the fat right off of me and I'm able to retain muscle as well. This is the protocol I follow: wake up and pin peptides (100mcg GHRP-2/mod GRF), ingest about 5g of BCAA's or straight leucine, pop a 200mg caffeine pill (optional), drink a fair amount of water, and then wait about 30 mins to start cardio. At this point, I use a HR monitor and keep my HR around 125-130 BPM for 30 mins. I then either wait and hour (you will burn off more fatty acids this way) or immediately have breakfast. Anyhow, give it a shot and let me know what you think.

Hard for me to do Fasting cardio, cause I eat when I wake up, get two meals in before cario and workout,,, I dont how I could get a pre fasted state in the morning when I wake up at 9am eat then eat at 10. Got the gym at 11am 30 min cardio then workout.

[FireGuy]

I would implement HIIT cardio first, 3 sessions 30 minutes a shot then add in LIT as needed. Trust me, I was a huge proponent of LIT cardio and was very reluctant to try anything different. After researching HIIT and talking to people who tried it I reluctantly gave it a shot. I stay just as lean off season with three 30 minute HIIT sessions a week as I did doing an hour a day (2x30) 7 days a week.

[Razor]

Can you explain LIT cardio and HITT cardio session to me

[FireGuy]

LIT=Light Intensity Training, Cardio. To me that is anything with a HR under 130 BPM. HIIT is high intensity interval training. There are several variations of this but basically you are going all out for 10-30 seconds at a time followed by 1-2 minutes of lower intensity. You repeat this over and over for anywhere from 15-30 minutes. I aim for a peak HR of 170-175. Personally I do 15 minutes of HIIT intervals followed by 15 minutes of moderate intensity with a HR of around 135. Many people do varying types of this training but the idea (shorter but more intense) is the same. The EPOC effect from this is another great benefit which you dont get from doing light intensity work.

[Razor]

Ok thanks I will try it

[Razor]

I would implement HIIT cardio first, 3 sessions 30 minutes a shot then add in LIT as needed. Trust me, I was a huge proponent of LIT cardio and was very reluctant to try anything different. After researching HIIT and talking to people who tried it I reluctantly gave it a shot. I stay just as lean off season with three 30 minute HIIT sessions a week as I did doing an hour a day (2x30) 7 days a week.

SO you do 3 30min session on HITT and 2 LIT Hour sessions a week? Im not understanding what you wrote

[M302_Imola]

Hard for me to do Fasting cardio, cause I eat when I wake up, get two meals in before cario and workout,,, I dont how I could get a pre fasted state in the morning when I wake up at 9am eat then eat at 10. Got the gym at 11am 30 min cardio then workout.

I would do the fasted LIT morning cardio on your non-lifting days. Another option that Fireguy touched on was HIIT cardio. I wouldn't suggest doing this in the fasted state because workload is intense and you could be vulnerable to muscle wastage. On days I perform HIIT cardio I have a protein/carb meal and then wait 1.5-2 hours before starting cardio. I too like Fireguy employ 15 mins of high intensity intervals (sprint for 30 secs, slight walk for 1-2 mins to lower heart rate and then repeat) and then follow it up w/ 15 mins of LIT cardio (~130 bpm).

I would implement HIIT cardio first, 3 sessions 30 minutes a shot then add in LIT as needed. Trust me, I was a huge proponent of LIT cardio and was very reluctant to try anything different. After researching HIIT and talking to people who tried it I reluctantly gave it a shot. I stay just as lean off season with three 30 minute HIIT sessions a week as I did doing an hour a day (2x30) 7 days a week.

I'm assuming you're not suggesting do the HIIT cardio in the fasted state right?

[FireGuy]

Off season I only do 3 sessions of HIIT Cardio a week. Thirty minutes each session. In years past I would do an hour a day of LIT (2x30 min.) 7 days a week. Right now I am precontest so doing 3 HIIT sessions and 8 LIT sessions per week. All at 30 minutes. Before precontest was two hours a day 7 days a week.

[FireGuy]

@302, correct I don't do fasted HIIT.

[Razor]

Ok so can I do a 30min Hitt Session not faster pre workout?

[Razor]

I would do the fasted LIT morning cardio on your non-lifting days. Another option that Fireguy touched on was HIIT cardio. I wouldn't suggest doing this in the fasted state because workload is intense and you could be vulnerable to muscle wastage. On days I perform HIIT cardio I have a protein/carb meal and then wait 1.5-2 hours before starting cardio. I too like Fireguy employ 15 mins of high intensity intervals (sprint for 30 secs, slight walk for 1-2 mins to lower heart rate and then repeat) and then follow it up w/ 15 mins of LIT cardio (~130 bpm).

Ok so can I do a 30min Hitt Session not fasted pre workout?



I'm assuming you're not suggesting do the HIIT cardio in the fasted state right?

Off season I only do 3 sessions of HIIT Cardio a week. Thirty minutes each session. In years past I would do an hour a day of LIT (2x30 min.) 7 days a week. Right now I am precontest so doing 3 HIIT sessions and 8 LIT sessions per week. All at 30 minutes. Before precontest was two hours a day 7 days a week.

Ok thanks for the info. I will do 3 Hitt session unfasted pre workout mon-wed-friday..Lit faster 30min sat and sunday

[Razor]

OK first session of hitt rift now!

[FireGuy]

I do my HIIT sessions on my 2 days off and PWO after shoulders.

[POPS]

where do you want your hr to be during HITT. Example : while sprinting ( Assuming that we are on the treadmill ), you want your hr to be in the 160-175bpm neighborhood for 30 sec. But during the LIT part, how low should you drop down to before you go back up?

OR

regardless of what your hr says at the time, just ramp up at the 1-2 minute time? Sometimes your hr might not get back down in 1-2 min...

Thanks...

[FireGuy]

30 seconds is the upper end of your high intensity portion. If you are sprinting or doing the stairmill at level 17+ even just ten seconds is pretty intense after a few rounds. I would start with shorter high intensity bursts to be sure you get some level of recovery on your lower level.

[POPS]

30 seconds is the upper end of your high intensity portion. If you are sprinting or doing the stairmill at level 17+ even just ten seconds is pretty intense after a few rounds. I would start with shorter high intensity bursts to be sure you get some level of recovery on your lower level.

gotcha. What I have done in the past was at the top end I was at @160bpm then once I got back down to 130ish I jump back up. I wear a hr monitor so thats why I was asking; and how accurate to I have to be. As far as time, I dont really remember but I get the idea!

Thanks again!

[M302_Imola]

gotcha. What I have done in the past was at the top end I was at @160bpm then once I got back down to 130ish I jump back up. I wear a hr monitor so thats why I was asking; and how accurate to I have to be. As far as time, I dont really remember but I get the idea!

Thanks again!

I take this same approach, as I wear a HR monitor too but I try to get up to the 170-180 range on my sprints and the drop back down to 130 and then increase again. 160bpm isn't bad but I like there to be more of a difference in my high and low heart rates.