Of course you can run aas at 18... I did.

[Focused88]

Do you know what HPTA is? Or your endocrine system?
Go ahead... google it.

[LolWuter]

I know the ins and outs of the endocrine system much more than most people here since I am in actual medical training and most know the ins and outs of every drug on the planet before I graduate with my Doctor of Pharmacy degree.

I said that there is a risk for the HPTA. But steroids, even tren, can't cause life long insomnia or OCD or something.

Here's a quote from another website actually to why OP should do TRT:

"I went undiagnosed with low T for twenty years and during that time I had major anxiety most of the time. It wasn’t debilitating by any means but a major part of my life. When I started TRT the anxiety pretty much went away. I still have a little now and then but nothing like I used to. I was on Luvox and then effexor for close to five years and since I got my testosterone straightened out I have taken or needed to take anything to close to three years now. In my mind I know there is a connection between testosterone and neurotransmitters."

[FONZY007]

Talk about bringing back an old thread...

Miss ya dec

[bodybycookiesandcake]

every 18 year old that clicked on this thread did exactly this, *click* "LOL WALL OF TEXT , DO NOT WANT" *back button* click new thread , TITLE : "anavar only cycle"

[big88sub]

That's perfect we got a wanna be doctor telling kids yes you can use aas. Don't listen to anybody that has issues using at a young age this is the perfect examples that I was talking aboit. Here's a guy saying I know some young bodybuilders that are on the juice and have no issues and I'm also.looking in my crystal ball and they aren't going to have any problems later in life. This guy needs to stay in school and go to a library and see if there are any real.study's on Tue effect.of sterpids. O wait there isn't. I forgot the specific people but the y will not let a doctor or whoever put people.on high doses of aas for a coarse of twenty years just to see the long term effects their especially not going to do it to minors. Use that brain that you are trying to defend the use of aas by young people. Let me say this again there are no study's on this so your hypothesis doesn't mean shit this is your own opinion and should be kept to yourself because all your goin to do is take that scare tactic that is being used on these young guys away. The point is why take the chance when your buddy is still developing. Again there are no study's to back you. There sure are a lot of people here that have used aas at a young age and need try. These guys have lived it first hand they are the ones who know where they went wrong. Maybe they didn't use a proper pct maybe they used to much aas. One thing is definitely true and said over and over again they used aas to young. Thats all the proof I need and I'm a hard evidence kinda guy so go ahead and write back how stupid you think I am or whatever makes you feel better about yourself bit your not going to discourage any of us from trying to keep youngsters of the juice. Make sure you give me your name and number so if you ever become a doctor I can come to you and get a bullshit prescription for trt because that sounds like the kind of doctor your going to be. I think I smell something burning.

[abstetic]

Wow great story juicing is tempting but once I got my diet fixed the pounds are racking up.... Thanks for the advice

[Bevsta123]

Great post OP, unlucky you had to find out the hard ways. I myself almost went down your path luckly through the knowledge of other member who helped steer me in the right n propper direction

[Thor249]

I'm gonna have to agree with wuter on this.

To many people on here think they are MDs and spew a bunch of bullshit that they hear from the so called "vets".

Not saying the young should do it. Unless you are on a dedicated bodybuilding path to the pros you might as well wait just to really be safe.

But all of these problems are not from steroids.........

[The Bear 79]

I'm gonna have to agree with wuter on this. Of coarse you agree with him, you're under 25 too (I know what your profile says, but your whiny pouty demeanor says otherwise)& are tired being told no, just like every other child here, you will desperately latch on to anyone & anything that supports your retarded idea of cycling.

To many people on here think they are MDs and spew a bunch of bullshit that they hear from the so called "vets". It's not a 'bunch of bull sh!t from vets", these are conclusions of research done by Endocrinologists (MD's)

Not saying the young should do it. Unless you are on a dedicated bodybuilding path to the pros you might as well wait just to really be safe.

But all of these problems are not from steroids.........Prove your claim........

Reds

[swm1972]

anyone questioning the OP just shows ignorance and arrogance.

Yes because taking the word of completely anonymous strangers words as gospel is what we are all supposed to do.

[LolWuter]

Show me one study that links testosterone to severe depression, hypomania, or any of these mental issues.

You know as well as I do that testosterone has a calming effect on most people.

And of course what's makes you so sure that this guy wouldn't have these problems if he cycled at age 26? This just doesn't make sense. There's no need to throw a wall of text at me. I know that juice has side effects and I'm not supporting young guys juicing at all. The side effects are clear. But developing hypomania is not a side effect.

You guys are embellishing. The side effects are cholestrol issues, blood pressure, liver values for orals, surpressed HPTA, and supressed growth if it is a kid who's taking this. You guys are hypocrites most of the time.

Whenever a 30 year old asks for advice and sounds like an idiot who hasn't done his research, you guys point him to a cycle. Same thing with girls, which is just insane in my opinion. But young guys must know the absolute truth. That these things have sides, but never embellish the sides, even if it's to make a point. You'll end up sounding like the after school special that Bigger, Stronger, Faster was supposed to counter.

Next thing you're gonna tell me that Taylor Hooton actually killed himself because of steroids.

[LolWuter]

Steroids shot mah' pa.

[swm1972]

That's perfect we got a wanna be doctor telling kids yes you can use aas. Don't listen to anybody that has issues using at a young age this is the perfect examples that I was talking aboit. Here's a guy saying I know some young bodybuilders that are on the juice and have no issues and I'm also.looking in my crystal ball and they aren't going to have any problems later in life. This guy needs to stay in school and go to a library and see if there are any real.study's on Tue effect.of sterpids. O wait there isn't. I forgot the specific people but the y will not let a doctor or whoever put people.on high doses of aas for a coarse of twenty years just to see the long term effects their especially not going to do it to minors. Use that brain that you are trying to defend the use of aas by young people. Let me say this again there are no study's on this so your hypothesis doesn't mean shit this is your own opinion and should be kept to yourself because all your goin to do is take that scare tactic that is being used on these young guys away. The point is why take the chance when your buddy is still developing. Again there are no study's to back you. There sure are a lot of people here that have used aas at a young age and need try. These guys have lived it first hand they are the ones who know where they went wrong. Maybe they didn't use a proper pct maybe they used to much aas. One thing is definitely true and said over and over again they used aas to young. Thats all the proof I need and I'm a hard evidence kinda guy so go ahead and write back how stupid you think I am or whatever makes you feel better about yourself bit your not going to discourage any of us from trying to keep youngsters of the juice. Make sure you give me your name and number so if you ever become a doctor I can come to you and get a bullshit prescription for trt because that sounds like the kind of doctor your going to be. I think I smell something burning.

He just gave a whole list of side effects. He is just saying the OCD ADHD link is crap. I agree with that. I don't think an 18 year old should juice. But for a (likely) already ****ed up kid to make a mistake and blame every issue in his life on a compound many have used safely strikes me as nonsense. And the faith people here put into total stranger drive by never to return posters, absolutely baffles me.

I know a Nigerian princess that has $1,000,000,000 dowry and all you have to do is profess your undying love for her and send her your bank information so she can send you the cash today. You game?

[The Bear 79]

Show me one study that links testosterone to severe depression, hypomania, or any of these mental issues.You know as well as I do that testosterone has a calming effect on most people.

It's not the increase in Testosterone that causes the issues, it's the lack of Testosterone after you're shut down genius. If you're gonna try & debate, the least you could do is be on the same page.

[The Bear 79]

Yes because taking the word of completely anonymous strangers words as gospel is what we are all supposed to do.

So you don't trust your Doctor(s)?

[The Bear 79]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15669883 ..... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...uerySuggestion

[Far from massive]

Lolwuter,

You are overlooking the obvious, that is most of the problems from AAS usage do not occur while you are on AAS (with increased test etc) they occur after cessation of AAS (when test crashes and other hormones are out of balance) so you really need to shift your analogy to support low test, high estrogen etc as being detremental to the development of these conditions.

So unless you are suggesting that an 18 year old should just start juicing and continue for the rest of their lives then your whole theory is completely invalid.

[Schmidty]

my thoughts exactly

LISTEN UP.

It's physically impossible to develop OCD, ADHD, and have terrible sleeping habits from steroid use. This is not from steroid use. I've had mild form of OCD for a while. TESTOSTERONE INCREASES SEROTONIN AND DOPAMINE. This will usually help OCD and just make you feel better in general. Only substances like tren will increase instead of decrease symptoms.

Most likely you developed this through out your life. You have had ADHD from a young age? OCD and other conditions usually develop later with that. I don't think even a physician who's completely against steroid use would say this.

There are countless members on this site and especially on RXMuscle who've started at young ages. The risk is stunting growth, messing with hormones, and being too young to safely use and procure substances. The risks ARE NOT mental issues. Arnold popped Dbol at 15.



- You're a moron.
- You probably shouldn't reproduce. Steroids won't make you infertile. It would take tremendous doses and years of cycling with no end to get even close to sterility. FOR GOD'S SAKES YOU KNOW HOW MANY PRO'S HAVE KIDS?
- I'll show this to my fellow Pharm students who juice and a friend of mine in med school who juices so they can have a laugh.
- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

LETS BE SERIOUS. THESE AREN'T STEROID SIDE EFFECTS. THIS IS A LYLE ALZADO STORY. THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE REAL, YES, BUT NOT THESE SIDE EFFECTS. CHOLESTEROL, BLOOD PRESSURE, LIVER VALUES, HORMONE LEVELS, AND GROWTH SHOULD BE WATCHED.

[swm1972]

So you don't trust your Doctor(s)?

My doctor doesn't post here. He is listed as an approve HRT specialist by Dr Crisler.

[The Bear 79]

- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

Just because you're a pill dispensing errand boy, doesn't mean you what you're talking about, all you know is what the meds are made of, how they work & what other drugs they interact with, ANYONE can learn that sh!t through a simple Google search, get over yourself. You're constantly arguing the benefits of increased Testosterone, but for some reason you're avoiding the fact that were not warning youngsters about the benefits of increased Test., were warning them of the potentially permanent side effects associated with cycling too young & irreversibly shutting down their undeveloped HPTA, leaving them with low Test. UNDENIABLY, low Test. DOES cause physical & MENTAL issues & you know damn well you cant prove otherwise.

[The Bear 79]

My doctor doesn't post here. He is listed as an approve HRT specialist by Dr Crisler.

I didn't ask if he posted here. I ask if you trust him & apparently you do, but do you believe he is the ONLY qualified doctor in the world on this subject? Is it just not possible that these other Endocrinologists / HRT/ TRT doctors know what there talking about too? Or have you found the one & only doctor in the entire world that went to medical school & is qualified to make decisions / conclusions based on his / her research?

[swm1972]

Just because you're a pill dispensing errand boy, doesn't mean you what you're talking about, all you know is what the meds are made of, how they work & what other drugs they interact with, ANYONE can learn that sh!t through a simple Google search, get over yourself. You're constantly arguing the benefits of increased Testosterone, but for some reason you're avoiding the fact that were not warning youngsters about the benefits of increased Test., were warning them of the potentially permanent side effects associated with cycling too young & irreversibly shutting down their undeveloped HPTA, leaving them with low Test. UNDENIABLY, low Test. DOES cause physical & MENTAL issues & you know damn well you cant prove otherwise.

You obviously have no clue what his degree requires, pharmacists have a more solid knowledge of drugs and interactions then doctors do. You really are no where near as smart as you think you are.

[The Bear 79]

You obviously have no clue what his degree requires, pharmacists have a more solid knowledge of drugs and interactions then doctors do. You really are no where near as smart as you think you are.

That is literally EXACTLY what I said...............& you're questioning MY smarts..........lol.......... He thinks he's something special because he went to school to learn sh!t I can look up online, like I said, all he knows is chemical composition, proper usage & interactions, put your fvcking bi-focals on.....................you guys must be drinking from the same glass.

[swm1972]

I didn't ask if he posted here. I ask if you trust him & apparently you do, but do you believe he is the ONLY qualified doctor in the world on this subject? Is it just not possible that these other Endocrinologists / HRT/ TRT doctors know what there talking about too? Or have you found the one & only doctor in the entire world that went to medical school & is qualified to make decisions / conclusions based on his / her research?

I've asked about these youthful HRT that only this board claim exists. He is at the too of his field and said he didn't have a singe HRT patient under 30. Odd.

[The Bear 79]

I've asked about these youthful HRT that only this board claim exists. He is at the too of his field and said he didn't have a singe HRT patient under 30. Odd.

OK, slow down champ, untie your tongue & try it again. Usually I can figure out what someone meant even if their post is "jumbled" but you have stumped me.

[nooby]

LISTEN UP.

It's physically impossible to develop OCD, ADHD, and have terrible sleeping habits from steroid use. This is not from steroid use. I've had mild form of OCD for a while. TESTOSTERONE INCREASES SEROTONIN AND DOPAMINE. This will usually help OCD and just make you feel better in general. Only substances like tren will increase instead of decrease symptoms.

Most likely you developed this through out your life. You have had ADHD from a young age? OCD and other conditions usually develop later with that. I don't think even a physician who's completely against steroid use would say this.

There are countless members on this site and especially on RXMuscle who've started at young ages. The risk is stunting growth, messing with hormones, and being too young to safely use and procure substances. The risks ARE NOT mental issues. Arnold popped Dbol at 15.



- You're a moron.
- You probably shouldn't reproduce. Steroids won't make you infertile. It would take tremendous doses and years of cycling with no end to get even close to sterility. FOR GOD'S SAKES YOU KNOW HOW MANY PRO'S HAVE KIDS?
- I'll show this to my fellow Pharm students who juice and a friend of mine in med school who juices so they can have a laugh.
- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

LETS BE SERIOUS. THESE AREN'T STEROID SIDE EFFECTS. THIS IS A LYLE ALZADO STORY. THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE REAL, YES, BUT NOT THESE SIDE EFFECTS. CHOLESTEROL, BLOOD PRESSURE, LIVER VALUES, HORMONE LEVELS, AND GROWTH SHOULD BE WATCHED.

For someone who thinks their so smart, you don't see the glaring contradiction in your post? First you say hormones would get rid of those problems, but yet getting on steroids ****s up, and lowers your hormones. Thereby lowering your dopamine and serotonin. Show that to your medical friends. LMAO

[swm1972]

OK, slow down champ, untie your tongue & try it again. Usually I can figure out what someone meant even if their post is "jumbled" but you have stumped me.

Auto correct strikes again. I've asked my doctor about young HRT patients and his youngest is in his early 30's. This doctor is the only recommended HRT specialist in my state on Dr Crisler's website. If you aren't sure who that is do a search on him. He is the leading authority in the states on this subject.

If this was such a widespread problem why does he not have any youthful patients? Of this were so widespread why is this the only board where we see these claims?

The thing is I don't even support young steroid use. For god sake I am a father of three boys and I'd hate for them to **** themselves up. But half truths, scare tactics, and flat out lies draw people to abuse of substances like this, it doesn't keep them away.

Or do you think the 'this is your brain on drugs' in the frying pan commercials were an effective deterrent to drug abuse. That's how I view the claims I see here. Unsupported nonsense that once people discover the smallest crack in the truth of the dangers they will disregard everything that has been said. And the truth will be the casualty.

[JonnyConcrete]

I'm very skeptical on stories from both sides of the spectrum. Maybe you could give us more of an idea of what you were running if you were doing it right.

it's hard to believe you did one perfect cycle at 19 and it ruined your life.

[nooby]

I've asked about these youthful HRT that only this board claim exists. He is at the too of his field and said he didn't have a singe HRT patient under 30. Odd.

Most 20 year olds don't even realize what they have done to themselves, so how would they know to go to a HRT specialist? WTF do you think that proves?

[Brohim]

Guys if you cycle steriods there is a good chance you will be on HRT before your 40. Even if you are safe and only do test and do a proper PCT. So that is your risk and it's your decision to cycle or not. Is the risk worth it? That is up to you to decide. But if your young, spend some time in the HRT forum and listen to more stories like this one. You might be surprised to see how many young (under 40) guy's come in with problems from using steriods.

[FONZY007]

I've asked about these youthful HRT that only this board claim exists. He is at the too of his field and said he didn't have a singe HRT patient under 30. Odd.

I went to an endo and was put on at 27, doesn't mean we ain't out there, most ppl it takes awhile to figure what's wrong.. I had test after test done than after that was put on hrt

Shit bw , MRI on my pituitary, bone density test, ultrasounds on my organs u name it i done it

[FONZY007]

Most 20 year olds don't even realize what they have done to themselves, so how would they know to go to a HRT specialist? WTF do you think that proves?

True, there a Ton of ppl on this board that are now in there 30's plus that are on hrt from young steroid use ( my self included ) and I did pct, with time on and Time off

[Thor249]

Hey bear where did you go to school? Where Is your degree?

Oh all your knowledge is from reading online?
Yeah that's what I thought.

But it's ok because everything I read online must be true.

An actual student studying in the medical field like Wuter doesn't know anything according to you.

Even though none of us specifically said its ok to cycle young. We simply said that this post has false claims about steroids.

Just sounds like you're mad about something
Is that it?
Umadbro?

[The Bear 79]

Hey bear where did you go to school? Where Is your degree?

Oh all your knowledge is from reading online?
Yeah that's what I thought.

But it's ok because everything I read online must be true.

An actual student studying in the medical field like Wuter doesn't know anything according to you.

Even though none of us specifically said its ok to cycle young. We simply said that this post has false claims about steroids.

Just sounds like you're mad about something
Is that it?
Umadbro?

You ask me where I went to school & what degrees I hold, but then you don't give me a chance to answer, you just assume I'm as stupid as you. Truth is, I hold more than one degree from a very prominent, highly accredited school. And far as "Wuter" go's, I would have congratulated him & gave him a pat on the back for getting a degree in Pharmacology if he hadn't implied that degree means he knows more about steroids & the effects they have on the undeveloped Endocrine & HPTA, I'll say it again, the plain & simple truth is, all he knows is what medications do what, proper dosage & what drugs interact with each other...............that's it............nothing more, you can argue it until you're blue in the face, but I can take what he knows about the damaging effects of steroids on the undeveloped Endo. / HPTA & write it in great detail on the head of a sewing needle with a wide tip marker. The only reason he fights this so adamantly, is because it suits his cause, he is too young to cycle, just like you I assume, that's why you came galloping in on your white horse & shining armor to save your girl friend, because the both of you are tired of hearing "you're too young".

[swm1972]

Most 20 year olds don't even realize what they have done to themselves, so how would they know to go to a HRT specialist? WTF do you think that proves?

And the claims from all of the 20 something's on HRT is what I'm talking about. Kind of obvious they know. You don't seem to be following this conversation very well.

[swm1972]

Guys if you cycle steriods there is a good chance you will be on HRT before your 40. Even if you are safe and only do test and do a proper PCT. So that is your risk and it's your decision to cycle or not. Is the risk worth it? That is up to you to decide. But if your young, spend some time in the HRT forum and listen to more stories like this one. You might be surprised to see how many young (under 40) guy's come in with problems from using steriods.

Most men will test low at 40 or shortly there after. Why do you think we age, lose muscle mass, gain fat. It's hormonal changes!

[Thor249]

You ask me where I went to school & what degrees I hold, but then you don't give me a chance to answer, you just assume I'm as stupid as you. Truth is, I hold more than one degree from a very prominent, highly accredited school. And far as "Wuter" go's, I would have congratulated him & gave him a pat on the back for getting a degree in Pharmacology if he hadn't implied that degree means he knows more about steroids & the effects they have on the undeveloped Endocrine & HPTA, I'll say it again, the plain & simple truth is, all he knows is what medications do what, proper dosage & what drugs interact with each other...............that's it............nothing more, you can argue it until you're blue in the face, but I can take what he knows about the damaging effects of steroids on the undeveloped Endo. / HPTA & write it in great detail on the head of a sewing needle with a wide tip marker. The only reason he fights this so adamantly, is because it suits his cause, he is too young to cycle, just like you I assume, that's why you came galloping in on your white horse & shining armor to save your girl friend, because the both of you are tired of hearing "you're too young".

Apparently he's your girlfriend because you know so much about him. How can you claim "that's all he knows". Who are you to say these things?

I'm actually 26 but thanks and the only reason I feel strongly about this is because these are all false claims..... Just a bunch of scare tactics.

By the looks of it you must hold a degree in Internet shit talking because you seem to be so good at it.

So far all of your arguments have been what I can read on the info threads......

Sorry to break it to you but Internet degrees aren't highly accredited.

[The Bear 79]

I'm actually 26 but thanks and the only reason I feel strongly about this is because these are all false claims..... Just a bunch of scare tactics. Prove the claims false.............

Sorry to break it to you but Internet degrees aren't highly accredited. Like I said, my degrees came from a school, a school you couldn't afford even after a FULL lifetime of savings. And even if you could afford it, I guarantee you wouldn't meet the criteria to be accepted.

....

[The Bear 79]

How can you claim "that's all he knows". Who are you to say these things?

OK, tell me exactly what else the job entails, what else does a Pharmacist do besides advise people how to properly use the drug a real doctor prescribed, & warn them of interactions with other drugs.................PLEASE break it down it detail, show me how being a Pharmacist makes you more knowledgeable in ANYTHING other than the ingredients of medications, intended use, proper doses & interactions.............

[swm1972]

....

Bear

Are you shitting me? The scientific level of acceptance would require the supporters of a theory to validate it. Not the other way around. Educated my ass. My 5th grader would know better then to make a statement like that.