3 weeks in... shut it down?

[smbdyshero]

Hey guys.

I found this forum about a week ago...

33 years old, been training for 15 years
5'9"
235 lbs
probably 22% BF
first cycle ever, 3 weeks into it, 250mg Test E once a week
diet is decent, but not up to par with what I read here
minimal cardio
training heavy 3-5 days/week

I confess, I didn't do my homework before starting the cycle.

I've been reading the threads here, looks like I should get the diet on lockdown, get down to about 12-15% BF before running gear.

My reason for pinning was to lose some BF.

Already added 1" to my arms, strength is up, sex drive is down (performance is good, tho)

No gyno, no girly emotional problems, no real aggression either...

So, should I quit? Run PCT? Or carry on, but tighten up the diet and cardio?

Thanks for the help.

[Gronkowski]

Hey guys.

I found this forum about a week ago...

33 years old, been training for 15 years
5'9"
235 lbs
probably 25+% BF
first cycle ever, 3 weeks into it, 250mg Test E once a week
diet is decent, but not up to par with what I read here
minimal cardio
training heavy 3-5 days/week

I confess, I didn't do my homework before starting the cycle.

I've been reading the threads here, looks like I should get the diet on lockdown, get down to about 12-15% BF before running gear.

My reason for pinning was to lose some BF.

Already added 1" to my arms, strength is up, sex drive is down (performance is good, tho)

No gyno, no girly emotional problems, no real aggression either...

So, should I quit? Run PCT? Or carry on, but tighten up the diet and cardio?

Thanks for the help.

Sounds like you are quite intelligent. Stop your cycle, and start PCT 2 weeks after your last pin of test E. Get your diet dialed, than fire it up again when your ready and below 15% BF you will not regret your decision. Plus when you do start cycling, you will have way better gains and fat loss.

[The Titan99]

Hey guys.

I found this forum about a week ago...

33 years old, been training for 15 years
5'9"
235 lbs
probably 25+% BF
first cycle ever, 3 weeks into it, 250mg Test E once a week
diet is decent, but not up to par with what I read here
minimal cardio
training heavy 3-5 days/week

I confess, I didn't do my homework before starting the cycle.

I've been reading the threads here, looks like I should get the diet on lockdown, get down to about 12-15% BF before running gear.

My reason for pinning was to lose some BF.

Already added 1" to my arms, strength is up, sex drive is down (performance is good, tho)

No gyno, no girly emotional problems, no real aggression either...

So, should I quit? Run PCT? Or carry on, but tighten up the diet and cardio?

Thanks for the help.

250 mg of Test E once a week is a HRT dose IMO. It's not going to do anything, good or bad.

[Emperor9]

250 mg of Test E once a week is a HRT dose IMO. It's not going to do anything, good or bad.

studies show the avg male produces 7-12mg a day so I don't know why so many think 250mg taken a week will do nothing no offense. I know its a common myth in body building.

[The Titan99]

studies show the avg male produces 7-12mg a day so I don't know why so many think 250mg taken a week will do nothing no offense. I know its a common myth in body building.

I don't really go by what studies show, I go by personal experience. Anything less than half a gram, (for me), would be a waste of time and I think anyone who would totally shut down there natural Test production to do 250 mg a week is not clearly thinking in terms of risk vs reward.

[Emperor9]

I don't really go by what studies show, I go by personal experience. Anything less than half a gram, (for me), would be a waste of time and I think anyone who would totally shut down there natural Test production to do 250 mg a week is not clearly thinking in terms of risk vs reward.

i see your point it may not be ideal but one could see results running 4 x what your body naturally produces. also some go by the theory less sides with smaller doses. I personally have seen great results running as little as 300mg a week but then again my natty test stinks now that im 35.

[K.Shinedling]

Hey guys.

I found this forum about a week ago...

33 years old, been training for 15 years
5'9"
235 lbs
probably 25+% BF
first cycle ever, 3 weeks into it, 250mg Test E once a week
diet is decent, but not up to par with what I read here
minimal cardio
training heavy 3-5 days/week

I confess, I didn't do my homework before starting the cycle.

I've been reading the threads here, looks like I should get the diet on lockdown, get down to about 12-15% BF before running gear.

My reason for pinning was to lose some BF.

Already added 1" to my arms, strength is up, sex drive is down (performance is good, tho)

No gyno, no girly emotional problems, no real aggression either...

So, should I quit? Run PCT? Or carry on, but tighten up the diet and cardio?

Thanks for the help.

Get down to at least 15% body fat. All diet and cardio. And in the mean time, do a ton of research on your planned cycle. If you didn't know anything before, now is the time to learn!

[tazzz_58]

Just after some advice..

I wanna get lean.

Ill be taking tren 225mg/week (10weeks) and 300mg/week (5weeks)

Is that a good mix to get cut?

[The Titan99]

Just after some advice..

I wanna get lean.

Ill be taking tren 225mg/week (10weeks) and 300mg/week (5weeks)

Is that a good mix to get cut?

That's possibly the worst thing you could ever come up with. Back to the drawing board!!!

[Bevsta123]

250mg of test e/week is a waste of test e

[AD]

Just after some advice..

I wanna get lean.

Ill be taking tren 225mg/week (10weeks) and 300mg/week (5weeks)

Is that a good mix to get cut?

who are you? start your own thread if you have a question.

[Capebuffalo]

You need to stop. Work on your diet and get your body fat down.

[smbdyshero]

Alright, so my last pin was this past Thursday.

Start PCT next Thursday, right? But what do I use and for how long?

The only side I noticed was some water retention that only lasted about a day...


I did search, but everything I found talks about completed cycles, not stopping early.

[Capebuffalo]

15 days from last pin with test e

[Capebuffalo]

So your running a cycle with no pct plan? Awesome. I would do some research but you won't. Novla and clomid

[AD]

Alright, so my last pin was this past Thursday.

Start PCT next Thursday, right? But what do I use and for how long?

The only side I noticed was some water retention that only lasted about a day...


I did search, but everything I found talks about completed cycles, not stopping early.

ya, it gets a little confusing. people who stop early all stop at different times of the cycles, so there is no standard pct for such.

you had 3 pins weekly of 250mg each? sounds like a low dose, but i recommend you still do a 4wk pct just to be sure. but i think it might be safe to use a slightly lower dose than standard. nolva 20/20/20/20, clomid 50/50/50/50.

start time as stated by Cape

[smbdyshero]

Yes, one 250mg pin per week for the last 3 weeks.

I feel great, so I don't really think I need PCT, but you guys know better than I do (obviously).

[smbdyshero]

So, I've been reading...

Nolva and Clomid are both SERMs and sounds to me like they work in the same way.
If that's true, why run both? Isn't one better than the other?

Wouldn't it be better to run a SERM and an AI together?

[gonzo6183]

ya, it gets a little confusing. people who stop early all stop at different times of the cycles, so there is no standard pct for such.

you had 3 pins weekly of 250mg each? sounds like a low dose, but i recommend you still do a 4wk pct just to be sure. but i think it might be safe to use a slightly lower dose than standard. nolva 20/20/20/20, clomid 50/50/50/50.

start time as stated by Cape

Id agree with running the above protocol and yes you definitely need PCT and you always use both Nolva and clomid, they act diferently

[The Titan99]

So, I've been reading...

Nolva and Clomid are both SERMs and sounds to me like they work in the same way.
If that's true, why run both? Isn't one better than the other?

Wouldn't it be better to run a SERM and an AI together?

You need to read Swifto's thread in the PCT section. First, if you don't run an AI on cycle, you don't run it in PCT. Full stop. Your going to be low on estrogen after the cycle anyway, so you don't need it in PCT. The Nolva acts to block estrogen from the breast tissue for the most part, while the clomid will serve to deal more with the pituitary/hypothalamitic axis. They act senergistically as well as in separate areas of the body. Now you can replace the Clomid with Torem, which is a far superior PCT drug, usually recommended for guy's that have been cruising for many month's or even years. As you can imagine that would make it better, as well as having less sides.

[smbdyshero]

Thanks for all the input, guys.

I'm going to take your advice and get both, waiting on confirmation that my source is good for them.

If it's not, I may need a recommendation.

I haven't been on the board long enough to get a source check, or even to send PM.

I read good things about the Lion...

[The Titan99]

There you go. I use AR-R (Lion).

[Juced_porkchop]

Hey guys.

I found this forum about a week ago...

33 years old, been training for 15 years
5'9"
235 lbs
probably 22% BF
first cycle ever, 3 weeks into it, 250mg Test E once a week
diet is decent, but not up to par with what I read here
minimal cardio
training heavy 3-5 days/week

I confess, I didn't do my homework before starting the cycle.

I've been reading the threads here, looks like I should get the diet on lockdown, get down to about 12-15% BF before running gear.

My reason for pinning was to lose some BF.

Already added 1" to my arms, strength is up, sex drive is down (performance is good, tho)

No gyno, no girly emotional problems, no real aggression either...

So, should I quit? Run PCT? Or carry on, but tighten up the diet and cardio?

Thanks for the help.

well normally I would say dont cycle untill you do your research.
but since you already jumpped into it I rec either stopping and running a PCT ASAP or the following:
finish cycle.
make cycle go to 12-14 weeks long in total then + 4 weeks PCT (Tamox and/or clomid)
bump the test to atleast 400mg ew ( I like 400-600mg ew)
GET AN AI ASAP and have it on hand or even start it up if, but HAVE IT.

I rec letro at 0.25-0.6mg eod-e3d or STANE 12.5-25mg ed-eod.

But in all honesty if you did not research all this, tuned diet to goals and built a base to work with, I dont think you should be using anything.

good luck! :-)


PS. pinnign wont lose you fat, diet over all else . you dont even need to do cardeo for a six pack or fat loss, its ALL diet and also the more muscle mass you have the better for fatloss+ diet. I DO rec cardio for health though, so dont take that the wrong way!

[Juced_porkchop]

sounds like you are quite intelligent. Stop your cycle, and start pct 2 weeks after your last pin of test e. Get your diet dialed, than fire it up again when your ready and below 15% bf you will not regret your decision. Plus when you do start cycling, you will have way better gains and fat loss.

well put!

[Juced_porkchop]

250 mg of Test E once a week is a HRT dose IMO. It's not going to do anything, good or bad.

Not tru it will shut you down, and then you will be covering that so yes it is HRT, but it is not a good thing since he does not need it (as far as we know).

I would not bother with anyless then 400mg ew if it IS the cycle.

[Juced_porkchop]

Thanks for all the input, guys.

I'm going to take your advice and get both, waiting on confirmation that my source is good for them.

If it's not, I may need a recommendation.

I haven't been on the board long enough to get a source check, or even to send PM.

I read good things about the Lion...

I highly rec ar-r for any of these comounds OR peptides.
AWESOME place!
I have used them for years now.

[Juced_porkchop]

Id agree with running the above protocol and yes you definitely need PCT and you always use both Nolva and clomid, they act diferently

they act the same to differing degrees in some areas and with differing side effects.
you dont need both but if you feel you need the extra help, sure go ahead and run 50mg clomid 20mg tamox/nolva for a few weeks.
but for most 30-50mg clomid for 3-5weeks is fine for PCT.

[Juced_porkchop]

You need to read Swifto's thread in the PCT section. First, if you don't run an AI on cycle, you don't run it in PCT. Full stop. Your going to be low on estrogen after the cycle anyway, so you don't need it in PCT. The Nolva acts to block estrogen from the breast tissue for the most part, while the clomid will serve to deal more with the pituitary/hypothalamitic axis. They act senergistically as well as in separate areas of the body. Now you can replace the Clomid with Torem, which is a far superior PCT drug, usually recommended for guy's that have been cruising for many month's or even years. As you can imagine that would make it better, as well as having less sides.

I dont fully agree. your estrogen will be at its high at PCT (if using compounds that convert to estro) and its good to use an AI on cycle to keep estro normal and also in pct to keep estro normal.
but if you dont need it during cycle i would think you would not bother with it in PCT, because by then you should have used it if there was issues.

[Juced_porkchop]

Alright, so my last pin was this past Thursday.

Start PCT next Thursday, right? But what do I use and for how long?

The only side I noticed was some water retention that only lasted about a day...


I did search, but everything I found talks about completed cycles, not stopping early.

Grab a bottle of Clomid and run it at 30-50mg ed and you should be fine. You didnt even do a full cycle, shut down/recovery should not be an issue.
you could grab a tamox/nolva also if you feel you need it.
I think Clomid would be enough though.

when you end a cycle early, you should still do a standard PCT. so following a "full cycle's" PCT should be about the same.

You need to take a bunch of time to just study, this way you will do this safely AND get the most out of it.
GOOD LUCK!

[Juced_porkchop]

There you go. I use AR-R (Lion).

Yes me too, good quality stuff.

[smbdyshero]

Wow, that was a lot of posts! Thanks, Juced_porkchop!

[smbdyshero]

So, guys, how does having higher BF% change the effects/side-effects of running gear?
Why is it better to wait until my BF% is 12-15?

I know some of those burly powerlifter dudes must be running gear and they're always at a high BF%...


Not trying to argue or to second-guess your experience or advice, just curious.

[The Titan99]

Not tru it will shut you down, and then you will be covering that so yes it is HRT, but it is not a good thing since he does not need it (as far as we know).

I would not bother with anyless then 400mg ew if it IS the cycle.

Well, it's a useless dose for what he's trying to acomplish. Shut down is not worth it.

I dont fully agree. your estrogen will be at its high at PCT (if using compounds that convert to estro) and its good to use an AI on cycle to keep estro normal and also in pct to keep estro normal.
but if you dont need it during cycle i would think you would not bother with it in PCT, because by then you should have used it if there was issues.

Seems we don't agree on a lot of points...lol. First, estrogen will be at it's highest point when taking exogenous aromatizing AAS (Test) not when it's removed from your system. It will then fall to an all time low, things trying to reach natural homeostasis and all.

As far as anti e's go, there are some very smart dudes on both sides of this argument. For me though, personally I can take up to 2 grams of Test a week and have no estrogen issues. Anti e's are super powerful cancer meds and letro is probably the worst one. They can ruin your joints, lead to injury, turn your dick into a drain for your bladder, hurt your gains and just generally screw up a perfectly good cycle. For me I say if you don't need it, don't take it. Others may disagree (Swifto comes to mind as one of the most knowledgeable) but I've been at this for a while and I know what works for me. I guess that's all I know really...

[smbdyshero]

Clomid/Nolva OTW.

Just wanted to repeat my question from above.

So, guys, how does having higher BF% change the effects/side-effects of running gear?
Why is it better to wait until my BF% is 12-15?

I know some of those burly powerlifter dudes must be running gear and they're always at a high BF%...


Not trying to argue or to second-guess your experience or advice, just curious.

[SEOINAGE]

I would like to hear more about this question as well. All I know is risk of sides can be greater, and you risk high BP and other similar problems. Basically it can be more of a health concern, but yes I am sure there are people higher bf than me that run test. I was going to lose some weight get to 15% also, but I got tired of eating less for years, started eating more and I am making great gains, I want to run a blast/cycle towards the end of this year, but I really don't want to lower my bf then either, would rather do it after the fact. So some more info on this would be great. I am about 20% or more BF, 235 lbs and 5' 8". Wanted to always hit a 400 lbs bench and 600 s/dl naturally, but best I could do was mid 300s and mid/high 400s on s/dl. I think my body is pretty ready for cycling compared to some untrained people. You sound to me like you are in a similar situation. Losing weight can happen, but think how weak you will be at the end of it, even after losing weight one would want to stabilize at that weight and make a little lost progress first before jumping on cycle and just gaining all the weight back.

and you know 250 is extremely low, and only 3 pins sounds like enough to shut down your natural system, but should be any reason why you can't bounce back from it.

Maybe stopping is the best advice, but personally I will likely be cycling at high BF and eating like a horse, If I have to do another cycle 6 months later focused on losing weight so be it, as long as i can do it without bp issues or problems, right now my blood pressure is awesome even with the high weight.

[Juced_porkchop]

Wow, that was a lot of posts! Thanks, Juced_porkchop!

HAHAHA i just came to look and I was think SHIT thats alot of posts, I dont normally do that many in one thread, than I read your post! lol

[Juced_porkchop]

So, guys, how does having higher BF% change the effects/side-effects of running gear?
Why is it better to wait until my BF% is 12-15?

I know some of those burly powerlifter dudes must be running gear and they're always at a high BF%...


Not trying to argue or to second-guess your experience or advice, just curious.

more BF% more conversion to estorgens and possibly others, higher blood pressure, possibly more fat gain, edema (water bloat).
all these things and im sure more would be effected for the worse with higher BF%'s.
I mean 15-20% is not BAD BAD, but 10-15% is much better.

[Juced_porkchop]

Well, it's a useless dose for what he's trying to acomplish. Shut down is not worth it. I agree, was my point (unless he just wanted a test base with othe rcompounds, not worth it)

Seems we don't agree on a lot of points...lol. First, estrogen will be at it's highest point when taking exogenous aromatizing AAS (Test) not when it's removed from your system. It will then fall to an all time low, things trying to reach natural homeostasis and all. it would have bult up at that point, at PCT time. An AI is a better idea through whole cycle or near the end and pct , in my OP

As far as anti e's go, there are some very smart dudes on both sides of this argument. For me though, personally I can take up to 2 grams of Test a week and have no estrogen issues. (if your blood pressure stays the same then you are one of few, most would/should use an AI when using a higher dose of test to stay healthy and keep estrogen levels normal *not low*) Anti e's are super powerful cancer meds and letro is probably the worst one. It is the one I like most, the issue is not letro, its people using too much to often that dont understand letro, I have used it for many months issue free, how i use it is 0.25-1.2mg e3d (2X a week) and it works great, never had an issue runnign 1g test or 500mg test, letro has a long active life and people dont understand that and start taking it ed or eod and they wont ruin your joints unless you are miss using them. They can ruin your joints, lead to injury, turn your dick into a drain for your bladder, hurt your gains and just generally screw up a perfectly good cycle. For me I say if you don't need it, don't take it. Others may disagree (Swifto comes to mind as one of the most knowledgeable) but I've been at this for a while and I know what works for me. I guess that's all I know really...

In red above :-)

[smbdyshero]

more BF% more conversion to estorgens and possibly others, higher blood pressure, possibly more fat gain, edema (water bloat).
all these things and im sure more would be effected for the worse with higher BF%'s.
I mean 15-20% is not BAD BAD, but 10-15% is much better.

Ok, I get that.

I did see some water retention the 2nd week, couldn't make a tight fist with my right hand! Freaky.

Also, I weighed myself before starting the Test E 3 weeks ago, and then again a couple of days ago... started at 235.5, went to 249 in 3 weeks! Fat and water!

I did get stronger, tho, added 10lbs to my bench and all my other lifts were like the first time I tried N.O. Xplode, stronger all around. My delts finally started popping out too. could never get a good pump in them before that.

I will come back to Test E after I've done homework, for sure.

[smbdyshero]

Today's my last day of PCT.

Stop cold turkey, right?

Nobody ever mentioned anything about tapering down the nolva+clomid...