Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

[Atomini]

i think the idea is it can increase your test a fair amount, but its some advanced shit i know nothing of. Ive seen articles talking of bridging and pct with letro. but no experience myself so cant say much on teh subject,

Still not something i'd use for PCT. Aromasin can increase testosterone levels as well, through the feedback loop mechanism created when estrogen levels plummet. But Letro for a fact reduces blood plasma concentrations of Nolvadex, so this creates a huge problem during PCT if one of your recovery compounds is Nolvadex. This is why Aromasin pairs much better with Nolva.

[Glennk93]

Why are you throwing the tren into week 4? Why not just run it from the beginning?

Why letro through the whole cycle? Horrible idea, don't bother.

Here's a better plan for you:

Weeks 1-4: Dbol @ 50mg/day
Weeks 1-10: Tren Ace @ 100mg EOD (NOT m/w/f unless you want wildly spiking blood levels going up and down like rollercoasters, and end up with worse side effects - just make sure its EOD)

Keep aromasin on hand for estrogen control to combat any potential estrogen-related side effects (do not use letro, its overkill and you will get estrogen rebound when you cease it). PCT looks solid. I like how you went with the PCT by steroid.com, it is my favorite.

Thanks Atomini.

What about the test e? and is it ok for the dbol oral or get the injectable?

[Atomini]

I didn't comment on the test E because it was fine the way you laid it out. 250mg split into 2x per week is just fine.

Dbol injectable is the same as the oral, and will have equally damaging effects on the liver, so just go with the oral.

In my personal opinion, i'd get rid of the dbol all together and just stick with test and tren. Everyone around here knows I hate every other steroid that doesn't start with 'T' and end with 'renbolone' (with the exception of test, and to a lesser extent, Masteron).

[Glennk93]

I didn't comment on the test E because it was fine the way you laid it out. 250mg split into 2x per week is just fine.

Dbol injectable is the same as the oral, and will have equally damaging effects on the liver, so just go with the oral.

In my personal opinion, i'd get rid of the dbol all together and just stick with test and tren. Everyone around here knows I hate every other steroid that doesn't start with 'T' and end with 'renbolone' (with the exception of test, and to a lesser extent, Masteron).

i can also get liquid prami. should i get that too as well?

Dbol
Test E
Tren Ace
Nolva
UDCA
Prami
Vitamin E
Aromasin

Look good to go?

[Atomini]

Prami or Caber, something to combat rising prolactin levels. Looks good to go.

[Brohim]

What are you thoughts on running caber with a test cycle? I hear guys say they get crazy libio boost from running Tren. But, I am wondering if it is actually the Caber that is boosting libido and not the Tren; if this is correct could you run Caber w/ test for a (further) libido boost?

[Atomini]

Theoretically tren should boost libido as well, considering it is 5x more androgenic than testosterone. But the reason why it fails at doing so (and even further makes it worse) is because of its prolactin increasing effects. By using a prolactin antagonist, you can effectively boost your libido from the effect of the prolactin antagonist itself, and through blocking/reducing prolactin secretion, this should be able to allow trenbolone's androgenic side effect of libido increase be able to shine as well.

Yes, you could take cabergoline with testosterone for a further libido boost. Porn actors use this well known method.

[alex.mitev]

Hi there, I have a simple question. I`ll be running :

1-8 test enanthat 500 mg
1-8 tren enanthat 300 mg

What is the right dose of Bromocryptine for me and do i still need to use 75 mg vitamin B6 daily?
Please, do not critic my choice - just where i`m based Bromo costs 10x less than Caber or Prami.
I have no access to AI after all, thus adding 20 mg tamoxifen during this cycle makes sense?

thanks for your input

[Atomini]

If you can't get an AI, keeping tamoxifen ON HAND is a good idea. I would not use it on-cycle unless you absolutely have the urgent need to. Vitamin B6 will assist in keeping prolactin levels low alongside Bromocriptine, but if you are using Bromo, it will generally overshadow the capabilities of vitamin B6. You can find your appropriate Bromocriptine dose by looking up and reading up on Bromocriptine profiles.

[Razor]

If you can't get an AI, keeping tamoxifen ON HAND is a good idea. I would not use it on-cycle unless you absolutely have the urgent need to. Vitamin B6 will assist in keeping prolactin levels low alongside Bromocriptine, but if you are using Bromo, it will generally overshadow the capabilities of vitamin B6. You can find your appropriate Bromocriptine dose by looking up and reading up on Bromocriptine profiles.

Good to know about B6, how much would you take on cycle as well as bromo?

[Atomini]

Here is a list of studies plus a bit of info you can look up that have shown vitamin B6 does lower prolactin levels:

- J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6

Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

- Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

"A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine."

- N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

- Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

- Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

- Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

"The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove."

[600@50]

Atomini,

The studies you cite all show that B6 lowers prolactin levels. One study mentions 300 mg given by iv. In the other studies is the B6 given by iv as well or orally? How would oral administration affect the effectiveness and dosage of B6 to lower prolactin?

Great thread man. Thanks.

[Atomini]

I can't really definitiveely give an answer on that. I know that many studies are done in this manner, where whatever substance in question is administered IV instead of orally. And therefore, it presents an unrealistic setting that has no real-world application. But there are some substances that when administered IV are no different than administered orally - and I think vitamin B6 is one of them. I am pretty sure the oral effectiveness is not too far off from IV.

[Glennk93]

Prami or Caber, something to combat rising prolactin levels. Looks good to go.

Pramipexole has a half-life between 8-10 hours.

Liquid Prami 1mg/mL 60mL

what you think i should take dosage wise?

[Atomini]

Pramiprexole dose guidelines are explained in the main post and in the FAQ, you can find it there. 0.5mg per day to start with, and slowly increase dosage to 1mg per day (or more, if required) depending on the user's tolerance to the side effects.

Side note to everyone: I don't mean to offend anyone, but I will no longer be answering questions that have already been answered in either the main article, in the FAQ, or throughout the thread's discussion. It is simply a waste of my time to be answering questions that have already been answered. I don't mind answering questions concerning topics that have not been covered, or advanced topics concerning trenbolone use. But, this is not meant to be a thread whereby people are spoonfed information that is already laid out to them not just in this article, but elsewhere in the forum. Not only are topics such as dosage guidelines for Prami and Caber already answered here, but a simple search in the profiles section of the forum will answer these queries as well.

[lopef234]

This thread is the BEES KNEES! However, I understand that you don't want to spoon feed people to much and want to keep this thread informative as much as possible.

But it would very AWESOME if you could post an example of a tren cycle in which you would recommend for your close friends for his first time tren usage.

And if you could go back to your first cycle (of using tren) what would you do things differently?

[Atomini]

This thread is the BEES KNEES! However, I understand that you don't want to spoon feed people to much and want to keep this thread informative as much as possible.

But it would very AWESOME if you could post an example of a tren cycle in which you would recommend for your close friends for his first time tren usage.

And if you could go back to your first cycle (of using tren) what would you do things differently?

First time tren cycle I would say could be:

100mg/week testosterone (any ester)
250-300mg/week trenbolone (any ester)

There isn't much i'd do differently if I were to go back to my first tren cycle. I think the only thing I would probably change if I could is start off with my low dose test protocol. My very first tren cycle was the typical 400mg/week Test Prop with 300-400mg/week of Tren Ace. I've realized anything above the TRT mark for test is really useless and not very optimal with trenbolone cycles. I find it best to center trenbolone as the primary anabolic.

[lopef234]

How does this look like for a first time tren user.
Week 1-8 Test prop at 100 mg per week. (Should this be divided in 25mg eod or just one shot per week?).
week 1-8 tren ace at 75 mg eod (300mg per week)
week 1-8 arimdex at .5 eod
week 1-8 nolva 20mg eod
week 1-8 Caber 1 mg pw (should this be divided in differnt doses or just take one pill of mg on monday and next mon again?)

Pct start time 2 weeks after last injection of prob. I'd go with the pct from steroids.com

Critique the cycle and please do find faults.

[Atomini]

Some points on your proposed cycle:

- Test prop should be 25mg EOD. Not one shot per week, because the short estered nature of testosterone propionate requires at least EOD shots to keep blood levels stable
- Why are you going to use arimidex on cycle with a testosterone dose that low? Not necessary. Keep the arimidex on-hand, but don't use it during the cycle.
- Cabergoline can be used every monday (this is what I do), or you can split its dose throughout the week, its up to you. You can also use 0.5mg per week as well instead of a full 1mg dose.

[Bigjerdog]

Incredible thread. Thanks for sharing. This is what we need for every compound. I have a couple quick questions I dont think youve addressed. If you have I apoligize.

1. What are your thoughts on the premade "cutcycles" i.e. 50/50/50 of prop/tren/mast. I understand youd like the prop at trt levels but I have read somewhere that the mast works in synergy with the prop and has properties that will help prevent the prop from aromotizing? Do you have any additional info or experience with this?

2. I have not used short esters before. Because of the fast acting esters and the tren side effect of sleeplessness. Would you reccomend specific injection times? I am planning for daily injections. But is it ok to do at night?

Thanks!

[Atomini]

Incredible thread. Thanks for sharing. This is what we need for every compound. I have a couple quick questions I dont think youve addressed. If you have I apoligize.

1. What are your thoughts on the premade "cutcycles" i.e. 50/50/50 of prop/tren/mast. I understand youd like the prop at trt levels but I have read somewhere that the mast works in synergy with the prop and has properties that will help prevent the prop from aromotizing? Do you have any additional info or experience with this?

2. I have not used short esters before. Because of the fast acting esters and the tren side effect of sleeplessness. Would you reccomend specific injection times? I am planning for daily injections. But is it ok to do at night?

Thanks!

1: Yes, I have discussed this a few times before and in a few different threads. Masteron is a great supportive compount that itself is an aromatase inhibitor (though it is much less powerful of an AI than, for example, Aromasin or any of the other major AIs). Masteron on its own isn't that great. I'd say the extent of its use when run on its own would be as an anti-catabolic when cutting. I ran it on its own for that purpose once, and it served me well. However, when combined with test (or anything else), it contributes a couple amazing features to the cycle that makes the other compounds you are using a little more powerful. Because Masteron acts as an aromatase inhibitor, you can run it with testosterone and pretty much control estrogen-related sides such as bloat and gyno (this is where the 'hardening' effect of masteron is found to originate). Masteron also has a very high affinity for SHBG, which means it will attract that SHBG and keep it away from any other compounds you are using, such as test, and allow more of the test you are using to be able to be free to do its job. I would still advise to use testosterone at TRT levels when running other compounds with it, though. I would consider Masteron to be the poor man's Anavar or Primo, only MUCH BETTER!

2: Injection timings won't affect your insomnia from tren. All side effects from anabolic steroids are not acute/immediate. They are the result of either unstable blood levels (i.e. injections spaced too infrequently), or they are the result of the compound's effects themselves. The insomnia from tren is just something you'll have to see if you get it. Some get it, some don't. I just do my shots as soon as I wake up in the morning. Doing it at night works too. Just as long as you are consistent with your dosing schedule.

[Bigjerdog]

Thanks great info on the Mast.

So regardless you would not advise a "cutmix" that goes 50/50/50. This is what I have on hand and what I had planned for. I also have some extra tren though.

Would you reccomend adding some tren to the mix? That way its greater than the prop?
Or not a good idea because of the amount of tren intake per week? (1st time using tren)
I have 4 cycles of various test w/dbol under my belt.

[Atomini]

You could do 50/50/50 prop/tren/mast, no problems with that.

[lopef234]

Week 1-8 Test prop at 100 mg per week. 25 mg EOD.
week 1-8 tren ace at 75 mg eod (300mg per week)

Wait...should i keep the test prob 1 week longer than Tren?
Or does this cycle seem okay?

[Atomini]

You don't need to keep running test longer than tren. I don't know why people say that, its rediculous. You can stop the tren at the same time you stop the test, no problem. That's the way i've ever done it, and there are no problems doing so.

[mockery]

1.) Adding tren to a end of a blast for 6-8 weeks but using the tren ace with long estered test and dht is there anything wrong with this? i know that i will have to shoot the tren ace more often, but tren sides are hit and miss for me so if i need to come off, i need to in 3 days not 2 weeks. I doubt ill need more then 300mg a week with a gram of test and 600 mast?

what are your throughts and experince with this? i just wanna further my body recomp while "on" just before the end of my blast.

2.) i guess another question is what would be teh minimum weeks id wanna run tren ace just to see some fat loss ive only used it for 8+ weeks, not sure if 6 or even 4 weeks is enough.

3.) Do i need to front load the first shot?

[MickeyKnox]

this is probably one of the best and informative threads on any particular compound on the entire net. thanks for that Atomini.

also, you have single-handedly convinced me of two things here recently.

1. to discontinue use of clomid in pct
2. never run long esters again.

appreciate all your contributions to this forum - you've definitely earned your new color.

sub'd.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Just finished reading through this Atomini, outstanding insight through knowledge and experience.

Thanks for sharing!

[Atomini]

1.) Adding tren to a end of a blast for 6-8 weeks but using the tren ace with long estered test and dht is there anything wrong with this? i know that i will have to shoot the tren ace more often, but tren sides are hit and miss for me so if i need to come off, i need to in 3 days not 2 weeks. I doubt ill need more then 300mg a week with a gram of test and 600 mast?

what are your throughts and experince with this? i just wanna further my body recomp while "on" just before the end of my blast.

2.) i guess another question is what would be teh minimum weeks id wanna run tren ace just to see some fat loss ive only used it for 8+ weeks, not sure if 6 or even 4 weeks is enough.

3.) Do i need to front load the first shot?

1: I don't see anything wrong with that, provided blood levels from the long estered test are nice and peaked by the time you get the tren in there.

2: The decision to use tren should not be based on fat loss. I personally have not seen dramatic fat loss on tren. Do I look harder? Yes. Do I look leaner? Yes. Leaner on-cycle than most other AAS i've run? Oh hell yes. But have I ever seen the fat just melt off my body while on tren? Nope. Tren, from my experience, does not provide dramatic fat loss. It will help push things a little further in a cutting/caloric deficit situation, but it isn't going to do what T3, Clen, HGH, etc. do for fat loss. And from the experience I do have from tren's fat loss abilities, it would occur to me that the effects are seen over the long term. Meaning, a 4 week cycle of tren will not yield you any fat loss to write home about (at all).

3: Frontloading is personal preference. No real need to, but its up to you if you want to get blood levels peaked quicker. I have never done this with tren, simply because its nearly impossible with Tren Ace. If i'm using 200mg EOD (as I am doing right now), then that means I am using 2ml of tren per injection EOD (assuming my tren is of the 100mg/ml concentration). Now, if I frontload my first shot (or 2), i'd need to shoot 400mg of tren... that's 4ml. No thanks! Don't really need that with short esters anyways.

[mockery]

1: I don't see anything wrong with that, provided blood levels from the long estered test are nice and peaked by the time you get the tren in there.

2: The decision to use tren should not be based on fat loss. I personally have not seen dramatic fat loss on tren. Do I look harder? Yes. Do I look leaner? Yes. Leaner on-cycle than most other AAS i've run? Oh hell yes. But have I ever seen the fat just melt off my body while on tren? Nope. Tren, from my experience, does not provide dramatic fat loss. It will help push things a little further in a cutting/caloric deficit situation, but it isn't going to do what T3, Clen, HGH, etc. do for fat loss. And from the experience I do have from tren's fat loss abilities, it would occur to me that the effects are seen over the long term. Meaning, a 4 week cycle of tren will not yield you any fat loss to write home about (at all).

3: Frontloading is personal preference. No real need to, but its up to you if you want to get blood levels peaked quicker. I have never done this with tren, simply because its nearly impossible with Tren Ace. If i'm using 200mg EOD (as I am doing right now), then that means I am using 2ml of tren per injection EOD (assuming my tren is of the 100mg/ml concentration). Now, if I frontload my first shot (or 2), i'd need to shoot 400mg of tren... that's 4ml. No thanks! Don't really need that with short esters anyways.

cheers mate you just confirmed what i already knew . yeah i worded that wrong i meant to say the leanness that comes with tren and that harder look. I know its not a magic fat loss drug. It has a nice look when you are on it,

another question, i get very red in the face on tren, is there a reason this happens or i can combat it?

thanks for your hard work mate, i read you had some stuff happen? im not sure what it is but hope everything works out for you. You seem like a solid guy, genuine people are hard to come across these days.

[Atomini]

cheers mate you just confirmed what i already knew . yeah i worded that wrong i meant to say the leanness that comes with tren and that harder look. I know its not a magic fat loss drug. It has a nice look when you are on it,

another question, i get very red in the face on tren, is there a reason this happens or i can combat it?

thanks for your hard work mate, i read you had some stuff happen? im not sure what it is but hope everything works out for you. You seem like a solid guy, genuine people are hard to come across these days.

Check your blood pressure! Redness in the face or your body in general is usually a sign of high blood pressure. I actually had this on my very first cycle ever (test E for 10 weeks at 300mg/week, frontloaded with 1000mg the first week). I looked like a lobster. Well, it wasn't that bad but it was visibly different than before I started. I was a moron and didn't check blood pressure though. Even if your skin isn't red, keep track of blood pressure. There's a reason why they call it the silent killer.

I don't like to flaunt my personal life around, but see here if you are curious as to what's been going on with me lately and why I haven't been posting as much http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ce-advice-here...

I had planned on typing up another article for the forum about a week and a half ago, I wanted to get it done soon after and then I was hit with a ton of personal issues to deal with. Next week I think will be my climb back up again.

[mockery]

yeah i check bp often, i guess that what it was its only been when i have ran tren so ill have to re think tren dosage and what to do to combat it. on all other aas i dont have a issue with bp so far *knock on wood*

[venturac]

atomini, where can i get caber at? i'm looking around and only see liquid prami. i can't message you because of my number of posts. hopefully you can message me.


thanks,

tony

[Atomini]

atomini, where can i get caber at? i'm looking around and only see liquid prami. i can't message you because of my number of posts. hopefully you can message me.


thanks,

tony

I can't give you sources and can't PM you just yet due to your post count, but I all I can say is: research chemical companies.

[venturac]

if a guy was to run trenbolone acetate, how long does it usually take to kick in? i have heard from others about the 2cd week.

[Atomini]

It all depends. Depends on the person, their body's metabolism, their training habits and diet as well, etc.

I have had cycles where my Tren Ace seemed to kick in most of the time at the end of week 2. I've had other occasional cycles where it kicked in at week 4. Sometimes the body's metabolism is slower, sometimes its faster. I'll be typing up an article soon explaining the factors behind the 'kick-in' period with AAS and what needs to happen in the body before you start to see the strength gains in the gym, etc. so that people understand things much better.

[venturac]

That's great. This thread you made was extremely useful. It sounds like you have a ton of experience with trenbolone. I thought I read you are in the medical field of some sort? Is this correct? thanks again atomini.

[Atomini]

That's great. This thread you made was extremely useful. It sounds like you have a ton of experience with trenbolone. I thought I read you are in the medical field of some sort? Is this correct? thanks again atomini.

I'm on my way there!

[venturac]

atomini, i sent you a PM, did you get it?

[abbey sha]

The Muscle will develope means daily you will do exercise then only you will develope your muscle.