Ideas for next contest/competition...

[dan991]

There could be classes based on size and BF%.

I'm gonna cut and throw off the curve on BF #'s by getting a DXA scan and posting the results.....

[Lunk1]

I'm gonna cut and throw off the curve on BF #'s by getting a DXA scan and posting the results.....

It's sooooooo difficult to figure out what may have caused your divorce that has left you so bitter. Your such a likeable fella, I just don't get it HEHEHE

[dan991]

It's sooooooo difficult to figure out what may have caused your divorce that has left you so bitter. Your such a likeable fella, I just don't get it HEHEHE

My wife didn't like my girlfriend... end of story....

I'm an engineer though.... so I'm anal when it comes to details...

[Lunk1]

My wife didn't like my girlfriend... end of story....

I'm an engineer though.... so I'm anal when it comes to details...

A good wife enjoys a girlfriend equally

[--->>405<<---]

well im cutting now dammit! ill be done come the end of february! i guess itll be another contest poor ole 405 doesnt get to participate in!

[dan991]

i guess im full of shit then dan?

Yes- your BodPod shows 9.9% body fat.

How accurate is it? If each test is performed correctly according to the recommended guidelines, there is a ± 3% error. According to McCrory, et al.*, the Bod pod has a validity of r = .93 using hydrostatic weighing as the criterion measure. * Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 27(12): 1686-1691, 1995.

HOWEVER.... it also does not calculate bone mineral density therefore you can easily be 0.1% over by the fat in bone marrow....

Dan for the win...

[dan991]

A good wife enjoys a girlfriend equally

She didn't think so.... she's still enjoying a % of my income though

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Yes- your BodPod shows 9.9% body fat.

How accurate is it? If each test is performed correctly according to the recommended guidelines, there is a ± 3% error. According to McCrory, et al.*, the Bod pod has a validity of r = .93 using hydrostatic weighing as the criterion measure. * Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 27(12): 1686-1691, 1995.

HOWEVER.... it also does not calculate bone mineral density therefore you can easily be 0.1% over by the fat in bone marrow....

Dan for the win...

You need to relax and drop it. A few bf% isn't really going to change the advice given to someone. What would you reccomend someone do differently if they are 14% bf instead of 12.

[--->>405<<---]

You need to relax and drop it. A few bf% isn't really going to change the advice given to someone. What would you reccomend someone do differently if they are 14% bf instead of 12.

tell em shovel head!

of course it could go the other way and i could be a really fat looking 6.9%bf too!

[kelkel]

well im cutting now dammit! ill be done come the end of february! i guess itll be another contest poor ole 405 doesnt get to participate in!

Waaaaa! Ya look great. Zip it.

[Knockout_Power]

a couple hours and 2lb of fresh cherries had me looking completely different @ 9%. Woke up in the morning, decent cuts, walked out to the orchard to start picking in the summer heat and 3 hours later I couldnt flex out a 6 pack to save my life.

[big_ron]

Anyone under 10 is full of shit! These are the same people that "lose" fat. YOU CANNOT LOSE FAT WITHOUT SURGERY! You can only shrink fat cells. On cycle- even worse cause you're replacing fat with water!. Do some research... once you have fat- you DO NOT LOSE IT... it shrinks. People being at 8% is a myth for most. You can only be 8% if you've never had more than 8%. IF 99% of the members on this forum, both on and off cycle went and did a full body scan.... they'd be sadly disappointed to find out they are hovering over 15%. This myth of seeing abs has got to get squashed. "I see abs- therefore I'm 7%" is absolute bullshit. I have abs- I'm near 20%!!!!

What the hell kind of statement is that? i hope ive just read it wrong. I can easy say im 7-8% right now...

[dan991]

What the hell kind of statement is that? i hope ive just read it wrong. I can easy say im 7-8% right now...

Its an accurate statement. Once your body increases in fat cell count; you always keep those fat cells. If you were 35% body fat at any point in your life; you still have the same cell count. When you "burn fat" essentially what you are doing is shrinking the fat cells but they don't disappear. When running certain anabolics.... those same fat cells start to retain water instead of fat.

You're 7 or 8%? Post pics- I call bullshit.

[dan991]

You need to relax and drop it. A few bf% isn't really going to change the advice given to someone. What would you reccomend someone do differently if they are 14% bf instead of 12.

Agreed.... I'm just busting balls with details.... but the killer is always in the details......

[--->>405<<---]

hey dan.. isnt the percentage (8%) of ur total weight? not the number of cells anyways. and u dont necessarily acquire additional fat cells when u gain weight they just get bigger.. it is possible to acquire new ones but it does not always occur..

[dan991]

hey dan.. isnt the percentage (8%) of ur total weight? not the number of cells anyways. and u dont necessarily acquire additional fat cells when u gain weight they just get bigger.. it is possible to acquire new ones but it does not always occur..

Yep, but that's where my argument is... the % of total body weight. There are a TON of people on here that are very lean; but to say that only 8% of your entire body mass is fat is inaccurate. You can be lean and be at 18-20% body fat total. If someone comes out and says I'm 5'4" tall, weigh 205, and I've only been working out for one year- then where did this 205 lbs of "tissue" come from... cause it ain't muscle. If they are on a Dbol cycle, or Test... a lot of water is held in fat cells... yet they claim they are 7-8-10% how?

As far as "fat cells" according to the medical community- you can't lose a cell without it being physically removed or "dying". You can't burn them off or lose them by doing cardio. The amount cells stays the same; they just shrink. So... if you were 45% body fat 10 years ago; you still have it as far as cell count is concerned. Its where its held and how much area you're working with in tissue that makes you look leaner than anything. You can remove the "fat" from the cell but still has other elements in it like water, protein, etc.

[warmouth]

Either way, I am totally in on this one. No more set backs and I just started my bulk, lol.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

What does it matter how many cells you have? It's the size of them that matters. What do you mean if you were 45% you still have it?

[dan991]

What does it matter how many cells you have? It's the size of them that matters. What do you mean if you were 45% you still have it?

If you were 45% body fat and now your 10%... you still have the cell count that you had at 45%. The misconception is that the cell is "burned off" when its not. It shrinks. BUT... they aren't empty... which means that all your cells are still carrying fat but not as much. So if you had 45% body fat, and now you're 6% allegedly... what's inside those now "empty" fat cells? There's still fat- just not as obvious. A majority of your fat cell count comes in around puberty. Sorry to say- if you were carrying a lot of BF when you were a kid/teen.... those fat cells are still there no matter how hard you work out.

[dan991]

Good Read: http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/adipose/adipose.html

"Morphology and Development of Adipose Tissue" is a good source for information.

[dan991]

of course it could go the other way and i could be a really fat looking 6.9%bf too!

That's possible but only because you have more than 1,000 posts....

[dan991]

a couple hours and 2lb of fresh cherries had me looking completely different @ 9%. Woke up in the morning, decent cuts, walked out to the orchard to start picking in the summer heat and 3 hours later I couldnt flex out a 6 pack to save my life.

That one is easy.... water weight. Wanna see how much water you're REALLY holding vs. fat? Take Hydrochlorothiazide for about a week AFTER you consult with a doctor. Hydrochlorothiazide is nasty on your liver if you aren't drinking enough water but more or less you're gonna piss every 15 minutes for the first week and always be thirsty because that stuff signals your body to dump (pee out) all the water its holding. You can easily end up dehydrated if you don't drink a ton of water.

[--->>405<<---]

If you were 45% body fat and now your 10%... you still have the cell count that you had at 45%. The misconception is that the cell is "burned off" when its not. It shrinks. BUT... they aren't empty... which means that all your cells are still carrying fat but not as much. So if you had 45% body fat, and now you're 6% allegedly... what's inside those now "empty" fat cells? There's still fat- just not as obvious. A majority of your fat cell count comes in around puberty. Sorry to say- if you were carrying a lot of BF when you were a kid/teen.... those fat cells are still there no matter how hard you work out.

yeh but if u started at 10%bf u could still have the same cell count when ur 45% too. it works both ways dude. and it doesnt matter how many cells u have, what matters is how big they are and how much fat weight they hold. thats where the % comes into play. u could have 1million cells that weigh 20lbs or u could have 500,000 cells that weigh 20lbs.. its gonna be the same thing..

[S&S_ShovelHead]

yeh but if u started at 10%bf u could still have the same cell count when ur 45% too. it works both ways dude. and it doesnt matter how many cells u have, what matters is how big they are and how much fat weight they hold. thats where the % comes into play. u could have 1million cells that weigh 20lbs or u could have 500,000 cells that weigh 20lbs.. its gonna be the same thing..

My thoughts exactly

[dan991]

yeh but if u started at 10%bf u could still have the same cell count when ur 45% too. it works both ways dude. and it doesnt matter how many cells u have, what matters is how big they are and how much fat weight they hold. thats where the % comes into play. u could have 1million cells that weigh 20lbs or u could have 500,000 cells that weigh 20lbs.. its gonna be the same thing..

One a cell gets "too large" your body creates more.

"Contrary to earlier belief, hyperplastic growth can also occur in adulthood (in both humans and rats). When adipocytes fill with lipid and get to a critical size, precursor cells are stimulated to differentiate, and an increase in adipocyte number results. This critical size probably does not occur with moderate overfeeding unless the overfeeding is of long duration. In addition, there are probably individual differences in the size that will result in new adipocyte formation. Once new adipocytes are formed, they remain throughout life and only a reduction in size of the cell is possible. This increased number of adipocytes has far-reaching consequences for the treatment and prevention of obesity."

Even worse- its somewhat 'genetically selective' as to where the majority of the storage is. In all reality- you have fat cells everywhere. Genetically you may carry it on your abdomen; doesn't mean you don't still have fat cells in your arm... they just aren't as big yet. So you shrink your belly... you still have reserves elsewhere but then you further have to deal with water retention in those fat cells.

My point in all of this- its fvcking REALLY HARD to be at 8% body fat... REALLY HARD. To the guys competing and pre-contest; sure more than possible. Being 20 years old, spending 6 months in the gym, doing a few cycles, and "eating clean" is NOT gonna cut it... sorry.

[dan991]

My thoughts exactly

The higher the cell count- the lower the fat in each cell needs to be for your body to maintain the same fat reserves. Think of distributing 1 cup of water into a beer bottle; and then a 1 gallon milk jug. The amount of area you have in the milk jug offsets the appearance of volume.

Start stacking on muscle- you offset the appearance of fat. Doesn't mean the fat is still not there and on AAS you start displacing fat for water.

[Brick]

So what it boils down to is we should all get bone marrowesque lipo suction?

In all seriousness have we gotten anywhere in terms of determining what the contest will be based on? If its bf % it has to be calipers because not many have access to bod pod and even less to DXA.

I think the best way would be an independent panel (ie 12 people not in the comp and who are avid posters) who will give points based on pre and post contest photos. This gives a great opportunity for others to be involved that can't (girly and her shoulder surgery, 405, etc). Scoring could be done like voting for MVP. Whoever has most #1 votes wins. There could be three winners then. Winner by: judges decision (highest), competitors vote amongst themselves, the board votes.

It can also lead into most improved muscle definition, most visible fat loss, most dedicated etc.

We are a community, lets try to make this an event for all, not a select few. Not every winner has to have a monetary price. If it was held yearly and I won say 'most visual fat loss' then I would r pretty proud to say that

[big_ron]

Its an accurate statement. Once your body increases in fat cell count; you always keep those fat cells. If you were 35% body fat at any point in your life; you still have the same cell count. When you "burn fat" essentially what you are doing is shrinking the fat cells but they don't disappear. When running certain anabolics.... those same fat cells start to retain water instead of fat.

You're 7 or 8%? Post pics- I call bullshit.

I agree on fat cells shrinking etc. but the cell count and % of body fat of your overall body compesition are two different things.

I have no reason to say im 7-8% bf when im not, so your opinion does not bother me.

[big_ron]

One a cell gets "too large" your body creates more.

"Contrary to earlier belief, hyperplastic growth can also occur in adulthood (in both humans and rats). When adipocytes fill with lipid and get to a critical size, precursor cells are stimulated to differentiate, and an increase in adipocyte number results. This critical size probably does not occur with moderate overfeeding unless the overfeeding is of long duration. In addition, there are probably individual differences in the size that will result in new adipocyte formation. Once new adipocytes are formed, they remain throughout life and only a reduction in size of the cell is possible. This increased number of adipocytes has far-reaching consequences for the treatment and prevention of obesity."

Even worse- its somewhat 'genetically selective' as to where the majority of the storage is. In all reality- you have fat cells everywhere. Genetically you may carry it on your abdomen; doesn't mean you don't still have fat cells in your arm... they just aren't as big yet. So you shrink your belly... you still have reserves elsewhere but then you further have to deal with water retention in those fat cells.

My point in all of this- its fvcking REALLY HARD to be at 8% body fat... REALLY HARD. To the guys competing and pre-contest; sure more than possible. Being 20 years old, spending 6 months in the gym, doing a few cycles, and "eating clean" is NOT gonna cut it... sorry.

And i fall under the categorize of a competing Body builder im not a punk with little experience training.

[Capebuffalo]

I'm gonna ask for all photo's to have proof of date in the pic.....

Maybe you should run your own contest with a list of demands.
Misery knows what he is doing. I don't think I would start demanding things from him. But I know him better than you. Just a word of advise.

[HitIt]

I demand one sugar and two creams

[Misery13]

Why dan, your quickly making a lot of friends on here. Maybe you should run for Mayor of the board.

[Misery13]

I demand one sugar and two creams

What! No please and thank you?

[GirlyGymRat]

Misery - thank you for organizing this competition. Bless you SIR! Respect!!!

[Ajc330]

if this is a cutting competition im in!

[Misery13]

Misery - thank you for organizing this competition. Bless you SIR! Respect!!!

GGR bless you too. I also pray for your speedy recovery. Again I will extend you a personal invite to assist me in judging this comp? Please and thank you.

[Misery13]

if this is a cutting competition im in!

Sounds good. Send me a friends request and I will keep you in mind when I post the contest thread.

[GirlyGymRat]

if this is a cutting competition im in!

He's one of my recruits. Lol. Been advertising in the nutritional forum for the folks wanting to cut!

I happy to assist with female judging....if we get more than one!!!

[Misery13]

Hey GGR wil you please and thank you post a note in the women's only section letting them know about this up and coming contest.

[Lunk1]

A pure cutting comp with BF classes...I might be in! Time to stock up!