orals and liver protectant?

[jimmyinkedup]

All info you will ever require on liver health and oral AAS use is here in this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-ORAL-TOXICITY!!

It explains how and why Milk Thistle is absolute bullshit and doesn't do anything (in the form you get it in the stores), and how and why UDCA/TUDCA and NAC are far superior and PROVEN liver support compounds. And no, your liver support supplements will not interfere with absorbtion of your oral AAS. It will be fine. In fact, during use of UDCA/TUDCA, you can actually improve absorbtion of your oral AAS by allowing free and proper bile flow through the liver. When Cholestasis occurs due to either physical or chemical obstruction of bile flow (THIS IS WHAT C17-ALPHA ALKYLATED ORALS CAUSE FOR THE LIVER), the liver cannot process things as efficiently, and by not taking a proper liver support compound, you can potentially end up getting less absorbtion of your oral anabolic without it. Everything is explained in that thread, read through as much of it as possible.

I will be running udca in an attempt to improve my lipid profile.

[warmouth]

I will be running udca in an attempt to improve my lipid profile.

Dont do it Jimmy! I dont know if you were serious or joking, but Atomini showed me a reference that higher doses (500+mgs daily) or extended use can lead to elevated lipid panels. I am living proof of it. He pretty much narrowed it down to possibly being due to UDCA. It is great stuff, but not for anything other than the duration of an oral AAS. Not to undermine you by no means, as you are the man with this lifestyle. I just wanted to let you know what I found out.

[warmouth]

Atomini, sorry, I didnt read as far down as your references before I posted. I just saw the comment on my way down and pulled the trigger because I remembered what you told me about it months ago. Sorry about that.

[Atomini]

Atomini, sorry, I didnt read as far down as your references before I posted. I just saw the comment on my way down and pulled the trigger because I remembered what you told me about it months ago. Sorry about that.

Not a problem at all. Just to clarify you post to jimmy, I want to add that TUDCA/UDCA where cholesterol profiles are concerned is one of those fine-line double-edged swords. For the most part, it has been shown to improve cholesterol profiles. However, when utilized for too long, it can shift them into the negative. I don't think dose is an issue unless venturing VERY high with it, so 500 - 1,000mg weekly should be fine but I wouldn't go any higher than that and I wouldn't run it for more than 8 weeks at a time.

I do remember your bloodwork that we looked over from several months back, and you have to remember that your cholesterol values were out of whack for a few different reasons, not just TUDCA/UDCA use. I remember the primary issue with you was that you were utilizing Hydrocodone that also contained acetominophen (tylenol) in it, which was causing increased liver enzyme values in your bloodwork. You were confused because you thought that the use of TUDCA/UDCA would prevent that, but as I explained above, UDCA/TUDCA does not work for acetaminophen induced liver damage. Incidentally, the slightly elevated hepatotoxicity you were getting from the acetaminophen use was also likely contributing to your offset in cholesterol values. I don't think that your UDCA/TUDCA use had as much to do with your cholesterol values as you might have originally thought. I believe it was due to other factors.

[warmouth]

Not a problem at all. Just to clarify you post to jimmy, I want to add that TUDCA/UDCA where cholesterol profiles are concerned is one of those fine-line double-edged swords. For the most part, it has been shown to improve cholesterol profiles. However, when utilized for too long, it can shift them into the negative. I don't think dose is an issue unless venturing VERY high with it, so 500 - 1,000mg weekly should be fine but I wouldn't go any higher than that and I wouldn't run it for more than 8 weeks at a time.

I do remember your bloodwork that we looked over from several months back, and you have to remember that your cholesterol values were out of whack for a few different reasons, not just TUDCA/UDCA use. I remember the primary issue with you was that you were utilizing Hydrocodone that also contained acetominophen (tylenol) in it, which was causing increased liver enzyme values in your bloodwork. You were confused because you thought that the use of TUDCA/UDCA would prevent that, but as I explained above, UDCA/TUDCA does not work for acetaminophen induced liver damage. Incidentally, the slightly elevated hepatotoxicity you were getting from the acetaminophen use was also likely contributing to your offset in cholesterol values. I don't think that your UDCA/TUDCA use had as much to do with your cholesterol values as you might have originally thought. I believe it was due to other factors.

Ah, I remember well. I know you are very knowledgeable with this subject, but I remembered what you told me. I didnt see your post, as I had not made it that far down. I figured if I was wrong that you would correct it.

[warmouth]

Word of the day: Hubris

[Atomini]

Word of the day: Hubris

Definitely. Add it to your vocabulary if you haven't already.

Dictionary definition of Hubris: hu·bris (hybrs) also hy·bris (h-)
n.
Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: "There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy).

In its modern use, hubris denotes overconfident pride and arrogance; it is often associated with a lack of humility, though not always with the lack of knowledge. It is also referred to as "pride that blinds", as it often causes one accused of hubris to act in foolish ways that belie common sense. In other words, the modern definition may be thought of as, "that pride that comes just before the fall". Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power.

Yeah I think that pretty much defines this supposed Doctor that was previously mentioned. If I ever met this doctor, I would tell her that she's sickeningly hubristic right to her face, and call her a stuck up bitch. Because that's exactly what she sounds like.

[warmouth]

Definitely. Add it to your vocabulary if you haven't already.

Dictionary definition of Hubris: hu·bris (hybrs) also hy·bris (h-)
n.
Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: "There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy).

In its modern use, hubris denotes overconfident pride and arrogance; it is often associated with a lack of humility, though not always with the lack of knowledge. It is also referred to as "pride that blinds", as it often causes one accused of hubris to act in foolish ways that belie common sense. In other words, the modern definition may be thought of as, "that pride that comes just before the fall". Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power.

Yeah I think that pretty much defines this supposed Doctor that was previously mentioned. If I ever met this doctor, I would tell her that she's sickeningly hubristic right to her face, and call her a stuck up bitch. Because that's exactly what she sounds like.

LOL! I got to get some of the nooma for sure.