milk

[Tron3219]

why not milk? at first i thought it was cuz the fat, then i heard something about bloat. whats the skinny on milk?

[MuscleInk]

why not milk? at first i thought it was cuz the fat, then i heard something about bloat. whats the skinny on milk?

Contributes to bloat in many people. Sugar content unnecessarily high. There are worse things you could body however. I switched to almond milk a year ago and occasionally flax milk (although some brands of the latter have high sugar content).

If you are drinking milk for protein, other sources of animal protein are better.

[ShredMN]

Milk contains a lot of estrogen, and as many know around here, estrogen is the DEVIL!!!

[MickeyKnox]

I still drink it once in awhile, but as Ink pointed out the sugar is very high.

[Tron3219]

Contributes to bloat in many people. Sugar content unnecessarily high. There are worse things you could body however. I switched to almond milk a year ago and occasionally flax milk (although some brands of the latter have high sugar content).

If you are drinking milk for protein, other sources of animal protein are better.

i mainly drink it cuz i LOVE milk lol i used to drink insane amounts of milk, it was my drink of choice for a long time. but now i really just use it in my morning protein shake(milk, oats, protein powder, egg whites, berries/juice) and my post workout shake(milk, protein powder, bcaa, juice). usually about 8 oz. i always make sure it fits into my macro split and everything. would this be one of those things that is ok for bulk but not so much for cutting?

[Tron3219]

Milk contains a lot of estrogen, and as many know around here, estrogen is the DEVIL!!!

hmm never heard that, is that what causes the bloat?

[ShredMN]

hmm never heard that, is that what causes the bloat?

Most likely. A lot of shit contains estrogen that people wouldn't think about. Milk is coming from a female cows tits, along with the milk comes extra hormones.

[Times Roman]

why not milk? at first i thought it was cuz the fat, then i heard something about bloat. whats the skinny on milk?

sugar content
bloat
and it gives me gas!

[austinite]

Not a fan of milk here.

[cherrydrpepper]

I love milk but its like this.. If you had a pitcher of milk, a package of powdered protein i.e. whey, and a big slab of steak, I don't give a s- what the macros say. I don't believe you will grow lean, vascular muscle at the same rate with the first two sources. Where I see milk and whey coming into play is exactly as you mentioned. You use them as an ingredient to create something that is a powerhouse of protein and good on flavor and easy time wise or price wise etc. So you might blend nuts, cottage cheese, yogurt, milk, egg whites, fruit, whatever, and the end result is something really good. The same could be said about whey. You combine it with a bunch of stuff and you got something awesome. But no way some milk or powdered protein source is going to be the same as a slab of meat the fat guy at the market hacked off a cow. The problem is unless you get a bunch of test subjects to volunteer for a controlled study its really hard to prove things like this. So you have to go by feel and go by what makes sense to you in your head. If you have gotten awesome strength and muscle gains off a lot of milk then keep doing it.

[Tron3219]

what about adding greek yogurt in the place of milk? do the same principles as milk apply with all diary products or is it just mainly the actual milk?

[ShredMN]

As far as estrogen, yes. All dairy products (since they all come from a cows tits) will contain estrogen. It shouldn't be a big deal if you're not estrogen sensitive though.

[Brick]

I don't take in any diary ever

[MuscleInk]

i mainly drink it cuz i LOVE milk lol i used to drink insane amounts of milk, it was my drink of choice for a long time. but now i really just use it in my morning protein shake(milk, oats, protein powder, egg whites, berries/juice) and my post workout shake(milk, protein powder, bcaa, juice). usually about 8 oz. i always make sure it fits into my macro split and everything. would this be one of those things that is ok for bulk but not so much for cutting?

I love the taste of milk....well, I used to. I don't drink it any more and I don't miss it.

I would recommend plain, natural ALMOND milk. My morning shakes consist of:

- 2 scoops protein powder
- 2 scoops rolled oats
- 6-8 egg whites
- 6 tbsp of plain Greek yogurt
- 1 banana
- 1 cup almond milk
- 2 tbsp almond butter (occasionally)

[ShredMN]

I would recommend plain, natural ALMOND milk.

Ah man, unsweetened/unflavored is the worst! I can't stand it plain, haven't tried mixing it though. When I gave up milk, I gave up pretty much all liquids besides fresh pressed juices (only when bulking) water, and tea.

[MuscleInk]

Ah man, unsweetened/unflavored is the worst! I can't stand it plain, haven't tried mixing it though. When I gave up milk, I gave up pretty much all liquids besides fresh pressed juices (only when bulking) water, and tea.

Mixing it as a shake, you'd never notice the difference. I use it for my breakfast cereal. Like a lot of things, you get used to it eventually. I never realized how much sugar and bloating there is from milk until I tried it 2 years after switching to almond milk. I was surprised by how sweet it tasted and one glass I felt gassy and bloated.

[Tron3219]

This makes me sad lol but looks like I'm making the switch....it's a b1tch being dedicated ha

[basketballfan22]

Damn, I have been drinking nonfat milk for a while. So 3 cups of nonfat milk in addition to a 1 cup of nonfat Greek yogurt per day is too much dairy? I have never been on a cycle, and I have a very fast metabolism so maybe I am not as sensitive to the estrogen in dairy products. This makes me very sad. Those sources allow me to easily and cheaply intake almost 50 grams of protein and 400 calories.

[austinite]

Damn, I have been drinking nonfat milk for a while. So 3 cups of nonfat milk in addition to a 1 cup of nonfat Greek yogurt per day is too much dairy? I have never been on a cycle, and I have a very fast metabolism so maybe I am not as sensitive to the estrogen in dairy products. This makes me very sad. Those sources allow me to easily and cheaply intake almost 50 grams of protein and 400 calories.

Milk is sugar. And this is an old thread

[basketballfan22]

Milk is sugar. And this is an old thread

Haha. Yeah, I realized this was an old thread; but I just recently gained the ability to access profiles and I saw this thread. I didn't feel like starting my own thread about milk if there was already one; but after reading quite a bit about milk and milk alternatives, I will probably start my own thread. I think if you have the appropriate enzymes, milk is not as bad as one thinks.

[carib102]

I'm fairly certain that back in the day (the 70s), none of the bodybuilders (Arnold, Franco, Dave, Frank, etc) drank milk or advocated using milk to bulk. Protein from lean animal protein sources (chicken, lean beef, fish). Milk is for baby cows.

I feel ya on the milk thing though because I do love a cold glass of milk. TBH though only whole milk really has that great taste and since I'm cutting whole milk is out, which means all milk is out. I've never had a bloating problem from it, just doesn't suit my goals right now.

[Tron3219]

I'd kill a thousand men, rape their women, pillage their village, loot and plunder for a cold, icy glass of chocolate milk...

...the powdered Hersey chocolate, not that lame ass nestle syrup!!!

[carib102]

I'd kill a thousand men, rape their women, pillage their village, loot and plunder for a cold, icy glass of chocolate milk...

...the powdered Hersey chocolate, not that lame ass nestle syrup!!!

At your size I have no doubts you could do just that!

I grew up 45 minutes from Hershey PA and have many fond memories of Hershey chocolates...usually including milk lol

[gbrice75]

Milk, strictly in terms of a protein source, is fine. It's a complete protein and therefore has what's required to build muscle tissue. Period end of story.

The problems with it as already pointed out are the sugar content, potential bloating (lactose intolerance), and possibly estrogen - however studies are inconclusive as to what extent this affects humans, if at all.

If your digestive system can handle dairy, and you don't mind the sugar (such as when you're bulking for instance), I say it's gtg - within reasonable quantities. During a cut, it's a no no for me. If opt for higher protein, lower sugar choices like cottage cheese. Even then, within moderation.

I always found the 'milk is for calf's' argument laughable. It's ok to eat the muscles of a cow, but not ok to eat what built said muscles in the first place!?!

[basketballfan22]

Milk, strictly in terms of a protein source, is fine. It's a complete protein and therefore has what's required to build muscle tissue. Period end of story.

The problems with it as already pointed out are the sugar content, potential bloating (lactose intolerance), and possibly estrogen - however studies are inconclusive as to what extent this affects humans, if at all.

If your digestive system can handle dairy, and you don't mind the sugar (such as when you're bulking for instance), I say it's gtg - within reasonable quantities. During a cut, it's a no no for me. If opt for higher protein, lower sugar choices like cottage cheese. Even then, within moderation.

I always found the 'milk is for calf's' argument laughable. It's ok to eat the muscles of a cow, but not ok to eat what built said muscles in the first place!?!

I do believe if you can handle it, milk is alright. I must admit there is something to the "milk is not natural" argument though. I think because I live in the US where milk is culturally a big thing, I never put a moment's thought into milk. The fact that 75% of the world is lactose intolerant is pretty impressive. Also a lot of the claims on the health benefits of milk are not scientifically supported. However, cultural diets are often overlooked. Many of our bodies are accustomed to diets that may not be common in other parts of the world.

"It's ok to eat the muscles of a cow, but not ok to eat what built said muscles in the first place!?!" is a good point, but I think it overlooks the fact that the milk only initially built the muscles. Once the calf has grown enough, it is the grass and other food sources that build the muscles. I think milk consumption for adults of any animal species is somewhat "unnatural," but I also think a lot of "unhealthy" claims are blown way out of proportion. Our bodies have an amazing ability to cope with a variety of things.

Despite all that, I am going to continue drinking my milk. Haha. I just like to hear both sides of an argument, and in this case I think there is something on both sides. Not to mention the fact that I enjoy playing devil's advocate.

[gbrice75]

Personally, I don't find it to be 'unnatural'. I think something's as unnatural as its rationalized to be. Is it natural to eat the embryo's of chickens? Hell, you can say we weren't 'meant' to drink the milk of other species, but I can retort that we weren't 'meant' to eat meat either (which I don't believe obviously). After all, we have to cook it which is 'unnatural'. I'm sure you can see where I'm going.

We as humans have the ability/brain power to do things other species cannot. That's my argument against those who say we're the only species who drinks the milk of other species.

[Armykid93]

Is the reason that most of the world is lactose intolerant possibly due to their not having milk on a regular basis so their bodies aren't used to it?

[basketballfan22]

"What is unnatural?" is a great question. Clearly shitting indoors is unnatural, but the advent of indoor plumbing is the primary reason for the increase in human life expectancy. Clearly we have canines which suggests we are meant to eat some meat; although the amount of meat people eat, especially in the US, is far too much. There is a reason why there are major health issues associated with eating too much meat. I know I am in the wrong place to be making statements like that (I am prepared to be "flamed" on), and I am guilty of eating too much meat in the interest of vanity over health, but I digress.

I think the fact that most people in the world are lactose intolerant makes this argument slightly different though. Most bodies after a certain age no longer have the appropriate enzymes (e.g. lactase) to digest milk which does suggest something.

[MuscleInk]

I don't drink it and haven't for several years. Don't get me wrong, I love the taste and as GBrice mentioned, its a good protein source but I get better, leaner protein sources and my needed macros from plenty of alternate food groups without the unnecessary sugar from milk.

[basketballfan22]

Is the reason that most of the world is lactose intolerant possibly due to their not having milk on a regular basis so their bodies aren't used to it?

That is true to a point. Many people don't realize they are lactose intolerant because they have always been consuming it. If you take a week off from consuming any dairy, then go back on dairy, you may get sick which suggests you are lactose intolerant. Clearly, the more familiar you are with anything in the world, the more capable your body is at adjusting to it. There are many things that some people don't have access to, but they still keep the appropriate adaptations. Case in point, our canines. The fact that we lose the ability to cope with something so quickly (within your lifetime) makes things a little bit more difficult to analyze. One more example of the human body's ability to adapt to something "unnatural" can be seen with snake handlers. Some snake handlers have been bitten so many times by venomous snakes that they begin to develop an immunity to it; yet I hesitate to say venom from a snake is "natural" for us.

Like I mentioned before though, cultural diets have a profound effect. Just because something may be argued as "unnatural," whatever that means, doesn't necessarily mean it is bad for us. If you are one of the few (≈25% of the population) that can digest milk, then in moderation the benefits outweigh the costs. Therefore you can make the argument that the concepts of "natural" and "unnatural" are subjective to each individual; and thus milk is "natural" to people like me and snake venom is "natural" to certain snake handlers.

[basketballfan22]

I don't drink it and haven't for several years. Don't get me wrong, I love the taste and as GBrice mentioned, its a good protein source but I get better, leaner protein sources and my needed macros from plenty of alternate food groups without the unnecessary sugar from milk.

Yeah, I wished I had the self control (and appetite) to obtain my macros from other sources; but clearly as the number of protein shakes I ingest suggests (4 per day), I may not be the ideal role model for diet and nutrition. Although I believe I am pretty healthy and fairly strict with my diet, there are things I can improve upon. Hopefully one day I will have a large enough appetite that I won't need any protein shakes or milk.

[MuscleInk]

Yeah, I wished I had the self control (and appetite) to obtain my macros from other sources; but clearly as the number of protein shakes I ingest suggests (4 per day), I may not be the ideal role model for diet and nutrition. Although I believe I am pretty healthy and fairly strict with my diet, there are things I can improve upon.

It's not easy but if you want results bad enough, you can make required changes. I'm cutting ALL dairy next week and dropping my carbs to sub 100g daily and no carbs after 3PM for a cutting cycle. It's going to suck but I'll make it happen!

[basketballfan22]

It's not easy but if you want results bad enough, you can make required changes. I'm cutting ALL dairy next week and dropping my carbs to sub 100g daily and no carbs after 3PM for a cutting cycle. It's going to suck but I'll make it happen!

Damn! Good luck. That is one thing I have yet to undergo, undertaking a cutting routine. I have a very fast metabolism, so I am still trying to leanly bulk up to 200. I never really want to be bulky though, so that is why my gains are so slow. I will say that there are times that I am force-feeding myself just to get the required amount of calories, so I think I want results pretty badly. Just take a look at my original workout routine, haha; but you are right, there are changes I can still make.

[>Good Luck<]

I'm fairly certain that back in the day (the 70s), none of the bodybuilders (Arnold, Franco, Dave, Frank, etc) drank milk or advocated using milk to bulk. Protein from lean animal protein sources (chicken, lean beef, fish). Milk is for baby cows.

I feel ya on the milk thing though because I do love a cold glass of milk. TBH though only whole milk really has that great taste and since I'm cutting whole milk is out, which means all milk is out. I've never had a bloating problem from it, just doesn't suit my goals right now.

You are dead wrong about Arnold and such not using milk. If you read arnies stuff, you'll see he offer drank a gallon of whole milk or even straight cream per day! He would also eat 1 or 2 SEVENTY-TWO OUNCE STEAKS LOL

I'm a milk drinker, and that won't ever change. I don't feel 11g of sugar per 250mL is to much when your getting 9g of protein out of it. Compare a glass of milk to a glass of OJ.

[gbrice75]

It's not easy but if you want results bad enough, you can make required changes. I'm cutting ALL dairy next week and dropping my carbs to sub 100g daily and no carbs after 3PM for a cutting cycle. It's going to suck but I'll make it happen!

You keeping a log?

I'll be starting my cut in 5 weeks and it's gonna be brutal... I'll be as low as 1600 calories on some days, with no starchy carbs for several days in a row. Not looking forward to it at all, but I know I'm gonna look great 12 weeks later. I'll be enjoying a full blow cheat weekend right before. Anything goes! I just need to try and ignore the guilt that'll surely come with it... gotta try and live it up a bit before I'm locked away in a self inflicted diet prison lol!

[MuscleInk]

You keeping a log?

I'll be starting my cut in 5 weeks and it's gonna be brutal... I'll be as low as 1600 calories on some days, with no starchy carbs for several days in a row. Not looking forward to it at all, but I know I'm gonna look great 12 weeks later. I'll be enjoying a full blow cheat weekend right before. Anything goes! I just need to try and ignore the guilt that'll surely come with it... gotta try and live it up a bit before I'm locked away in a self inflicted diet prison lol!

I'll be starting one on Monday. New cycle as well. I have a show in November and need to be closer to 5% bf by then. Yes, it's going to be absolutely brutal. Already started cutting carbs and I'm feeling a slight decrease in energy but nothing severe. My fasted cardio will go up to 6 days a week - that in itself will be a shock to my system!

[carib102]

You are dead wrong about Arnold and such not using milk. If you read arnies stuff, you'll see he offer drank a gallon of whole milk or even straight cream per day! He would also eat 1 or 2 SEVENTY-TWO OUNCE STEAKS LOL

I'm a milk drinker, and that won't ever change. I don't feel 11g of sugar per 250mL is to much when your getting 9g of protein out of it. Compare a glass of milk to a glass of OJ.

I think it was in Raw Iron - The Making of Pumping Iron where he clearly stated that he does not (did not) drink milk. I also do not see milk in any of the reported diets for that time frame. Ironically he also disses bread regularly, but bread is clearly present in many of the reported diets for that time period haha. Unless you were there you will never know I guess. It is probable that he did use milk when he was younger though. His idol was Reg Park, who most definitely drank milk and yes straight heavy cream. Plus, whenever diets and such are quoted its never mentioned whether he was bulking or cutting. I am certain that the diets in each case would be at least moderately different.

[>Good Luck<]

I think it was in Raw Iron - The Making of Pumping Iron where he clearly stated that he does not (did not) drink milk. I also do not see milk in any of the reported diets for that time frame. Ironically he also disses bread regularly, but bread is clearly present in many of the reported diets for that time period haha. Unless you were there you will never know I guess. It is probable that he did use milk when he was younger though. His idol was Reg Park, who most definitely drank milk and yes straight heavy cream. Plus, whenever diets and such are quoted its never mentioned whether he was bulking or cutting. I am certain that the diets in each case would be at least moderately different.

Fair enough

[cliffjumper]

WOW - my world has been officially rocked - I have ALWAYS had milk in my diet -- and LOTS of it. Wow. No idea that it contained estrogen. Looks like Almond Milk to the rescue. But, I should ask - how is Almond Milk in regard to sugar content? High, low?

And thanks all for the eye opener.

[cliffjumper]

And since we're on the topic - is milk just bad in a bodybuilder's diet at any time -- or would something like a bulking diet contain milk (specifically whole milk)?

Thanks!