1st cycle question

[syd-bloke]

Cardiovascular Dangers of Excess Estrogen

Conventional medical dogma states that estrogen is cardio-protective while androgens are pro-atherogenic. This fallacy is based on the mere fact that men have higher levels of heart disease than women.

Excess estrogen in males has many harmful effects, and is definitely not cardio-protective. The following are just a few of the many research studies demonstrating the harmful cardiovascular effects of excess estrogen in males:

1) Increases Risk of Stroke.
After adjustment for age, hypertension, diabetes, adiposity, cholesterol, atrial fibrillation, and other characteristics were made in a group of 2,197 men aged 71 to 93 years of age, men with the highest blood levels of estradiol had a 2.2-fold greater risk of stroke, compared with those whose estradiol levels were lower. www .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310026

2) Increases carotid artery thickness.
In a study of 313 men whose average age was 58, carotid artery intima-media thickness was measured at baseline and then three years later. After adjusting for other confounding risk factors, higher levels of estradiol were associated with thickening of the carotid artery wall. Researchers concluded, "Circulating estradiol is a predictor of progression of carotid artery intima-media thickness in middle-aged men." jcem.endojournals.org/content/91/11/4433.full

3) Negatively affects lipids and other risk factors for CAD.
In an angiographic trial of coronary atherosclerosis in a group of men with stable coronary artery disease, significant positive correlations between estradiol levels and other known atherosclerotic risk factors was observed. Researchers concluded, "Our results indicate a possible role of estradiol in promoting the development of atherogenic lipid milieu in men with coronary artery disease." ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15860391

4) Promotes coronary atherosclerosis.
In another angiographic trial of coronary atherosclerosis in men aged 40-60 years, compared with healthy age-matched controls, men with coronary atherosclerosis had higher levels of estrone and a low level of testosterone in the presence of a high level of estradiol. Researchers concluded, "Low levels of total testosterone, testosterone/estradiol ratio and free androgen index and higher levels of estrone in men with coronary artery disease appear together with many features of metabolic syndrome and may be involved in the pathogenesis of coronary atherosclerosis."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15669538

5) Associated with heart attacks.
In a study of men having suffered an acute myocardial infarction (heart attack), a prior heart attack, and patients with normal coronary arteries, the results showed significantly higher levels of estradiol in both groups of heart attack patients compared with those without coronary disease. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17435665

6) Increases Blood Pressure
Excessively high levels of estrogen cause production of superoxide, a potent free radical which damages cell structures and increases blood pressure.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411770

Great info but you might as well copy and paste about how taking steroid is not good for your body, specially in this forum where any drug listed is technically not good for the body but we tend to care less and deal with possible consequences. Having said that, you are also right with regards to excess estrogen is not good for male body.

c-Z is practically right. Although the safe way is not using steroid period, if talking about safe. So taking steroid compared to not taking AI on low dosage is like comparing a house with matchbox when it comes to harmful side effects.

Making a compound of unnecessary drugs just to assume it may help stop possible gyno should be out of question for anyone.

Rule of thumbs for generations has been to try first, then take measure to avoid additional side effects.

Some people are prone to gyno by first or second experience, in this case it is advised to take AI if they really want to cycle. Some like myself are not worried about gyno specially at low dosage and first cycle.

First cycle should only be ONE kind of testosterone with maximum 8 weeks of pct all depending of blood work thought out the cycle (before, mid, end and then 6th week of pct to consider stop or continuous dose of pct)

It's just amazing how some people give advice on things they have never experienced personally. This forum has turned from being a source of valid last resort knowledge to a teenage schoolyard with fake wannabes. I say that with no disrespect to anyone in particular. It's just my general observation from reading posts after few years. Stay safe

[BBrian]

It's just amazing how some people give advice on things they have never experienced personally. This forum has turned from being a source of valid last resort knowledge to a teenage schoolyard with fake wannabes. I say that with no disrespect to anyone in particular. It's just my general observation from reading posts after few years. Stay safe

This site has always been like that. If anything there are probably more knowledgeable people here than ever before, however. And it's no coincidence that medical science has progressed through the years as well.

[MuscleInk]

This site has always been like that. If anything there are probably more knowledgeable people here than ever before, however. And it's no coincidence that medical science has progressed through the years as well.

True, and the supposition that an AI should only be taken if gyno symptoms appear is very antiquated. AIs do more than reduce gyno and there are far greater threats from elevated estrogen than vanity issues with your boobs.

[MickeyKnox]

Great info but you might as well copy and paste about how taking steroid is not good for your body, specially in this forum where any drug listed is technically not good for the body but we tend to care less and deal with possible consequences. Having said that, you are also right with regards to excess estrogen is not good for male body.

c-Z is practically right. Although the safe way is not using steroid period, if talking about safe. So taking steroid compared to not taking AI on low dosage is like comparing a house with matchbox when it comes to harmful side effects.

Making a compound of unnecessary drugs just to assume it may help stop possible gyno should be out of question for anyone.

Rule of thumbs for generations has been to try first, then take measure to avoid additional side effects.

Some people are prone to gyno by first or second experience, in this case it is advised to take AI if they really want to cycle. Some like myself are not worried about gyno specially at low dosage and first cycle.

First cycle should only be ONE kind of testosterone with maximum 8 weeks of pct all depending of blood work thought out the cycle (before, mid, end and then 6th week of pct to consider stop or continuous dose of pct)

It's just amazing how some people give advice on things they have never experienced personally. This forum has turned from being a source of valid last resort knowledge to a teenage schoolyard with fake wannabes. I say that with no disrespect to anyone in particular. It's just my general observation from reading posts after few years. Stay safe

Often myself and others get tired of posting the same thing over and over and over and over again. After awhile, we begin to sound like broken records. So Ive taken upon myself to draft up several "default" answers to common questions that are asked over and over and over and over again. Occasionally i will use something i have read and that i totally agree with based upon my experience, published medical studies, and empirical data.

And when it comes to Estrogen related issues, i prefer to error on the side of caution. When introducing exogenous testosterone into the male body, invariably Estrogen levels rise. And imho, rising E2 is not something that should be taken lightly. So, including a commonly accepted and widely proven protocol is prudent advice to anyone beginning a cycle, particularly for the first time. This is notwithstanding current, on-cycle, and post blood work.

However i do agree that anyone with an internet connection and working knowledge of a computer can be "knowledgeable." But you'd have to be glib to think that knowledge gained from sound research has no value in the AAS community.

My .02..

This site has always been like that. If anything there are probably more knowledgeable people here than ever before, however. And it's no coincidence that medical science has progressed through the years as well.

True, and the supposition that an AI should only be taken if gyno symptoms appear is very antiquated. AIs do more than reduce gyno and there are far greater threats from elevated estrogen than vanity issues with your boobs.

Can't argue with any of this ^^. The information widely available today that supports both these statements is overwhelming.