Steroids and Body Fat: I Disagree

[m_donnelly]

Adipose tissue stores aromatase. So, more fatty tissue equates to faster conversion of testosterone to estrogen. More estrogen means more side effects... And, we live in a world where guys stick needles full of testosterone into the side of their ass without a PCT protocol much less an AI on board... So, I see both sides of the argument.

[Lunk1]

Adipose tissue stores aromatase. So, more fatty tissue equates to faster conversion of testosterone to estrogen. More estrogen means more side effects... And, we live in a world where guys stick needles full of testosterone into the side of their ass without a PCT protocol much less an AI on board... So, I see both sides of the argument.

So a fatter person has more of the aromatase enzymes than a thinner one????

[MickeyKnox]

So a fatter person has more of the aromatase enzymes than a thinner one????

Yes.

[Bio-Active]

Yes.

This is exactly why I believe the leaner you are the smaller ai dose you need?

[warmouth]

So a fatter person has more of the aromatase enzymes than a thinner one????

I'd like to dig on this one. I think all of us should honestly. Maybe even get Stem in on it. From my understanding, just because you lose a certain amount of body fat, doesnt actually mean you lose fat cells. I think they just shrink. I'm pretty sure I heard one of the Nutrition gurus talk to a female member recently on the subject, and he had alot of data to support it. So I dont know if there is more aromatase enzyme in expanded fat cells or not, hopefully he will chime in.

I personally think Metalject has something up his sleeve here and not abandoning it. I just think he is letting us ponder it. I am serious about him being on of the most knowledgeable guys on AAS that I have ever seen, as far as common sense stuff is concerned. So lets be patient with him because I guarantee you he will plop something on us after he reads all of this over.

As far as my comments go, I think 15-20ish is ok, but I also dont see 15-20 as unhealthy. Much more than we could make that argument. But AAS can help a 18% BF (like I was) drop a significant amount of BF as long as the person is willing to put in the effort it will take. But an obese person is a whole different story. An obese person is not willing to put the work in on his own, and doesnt have any business in AAS until he can prove himself by regulating his diet and exercise. And it would be almost impossible for him to adjust his AI without BW, so he wouldnt be certain if he was experiencing gyno early enough in some cases, I'd say.

I just think this is an interesting topic, and one we all can learn from if we can keep an open mind and be willing to be wrong. If I am wrong with anything, on any topic, I want to know it so that I dont say or do something to harm someone else. And as a "productive" member here, I feel that I need to know everything that I can in order to help wherever I can.

[OdinsOtherSon]

I'd like to dig on this one. I think all of us should honestly. Maybe even get Stem in on it. From my understanding, just because you lose a certain amount of body fat, doesnt actually mean you lose fat cells. I think they just shrink. I'm pretty sure I heard one of the Nutrition gurus talk to a female member recently on the subject, and he had alot of data to support it. So I dont know if there is more aromatase enzyme in expanded fat cells or not, hopefully he will chime in.

I personally think Metalject has something up his sleeve here and not abandoning it. I just think he is letting us ponder it. I am serious about him being on of the most knowledgeable guys on AAS that I have ever seen, as far as common sense stuff is concerned. So lets be patient with him because I guarantee you he will plop something on us after he reads all of this over.

As far as my comments go, I think 15-20ish is ok, but I also dont see 15-20 as unhealthy. Much more than we could make that argument. But AAS can help a 18% BF (like I was) drop a significant amount of BF as long as the person is willing to put in the effort it will take. But an obese person is a whole different story. An obese person is not willing to put the work in on his own, and doesnt have any business in AAS until he can prove himself by regulating his diet and exercise. And it would be almost impossible for him to adjust his AI without BW, so he wouldnt be certain if he was experiencing gyno early enough in some cases, I'd say.

I just think this is an interesting topic, and one we all can learn from if we can keep an open mind and be willing to be wrong. If I am wrong with anything, on any topic, I want to know it so that I dont say or do something to harm someone else. And as a "productive" member here, I feel that I need to know everything that I can in order to help wherever I can.

I've read the same.... you don't lose bodyfat, you simply shrink the size of the cells.

I agree with you warmouth. I think there is definitely some credibility to this notion, so long as we're talking about an otherwise healthy person (not obese). Obviously this isn't going to work for just anyone but I tend to generally agree that the whole "no one over 15% bf" should even consider aas usage is just painting with too broad a brush; however, it is also a good base line with great safety protocols built in. I think its person dependent at the end of the day. Another prime example of why educating oneself prior to any aas use is paramount. Just my $0.02

[Bio-Active]

I'd like to dig on this one. I think all of us should honestly. Maybe even get Stem in on it. From my understanding, just because you lose a certain amount of body fat, doesnt actually mean you lose fat cells. I think they just shrink. I'm pretty sure I heard one of the Nutrition gurus talk to a female member recently on the subject, and he had alot of data to support it. So I dont know if there is more aromatase enzyme in expanded fat cells or not, hopefully he will chime in.

I personally think Metalject has something up his sleeve here and not abandoning it. I just think he is letting us ponder it. I am serious about him being on of the most knowledgeable guys on AAS that I have ever seen, as far as common sense stuff is concerned. So lets be patient with him because I guarantee you he will plop something on us after he reads all of this over.

As far as my comments go, I think 15-20ish is ok, but I also dont see 15-20 as unhealthy. Much more than we could make that argument. But AAS can help a 18% BF (like I was) drop a significant amount of BF as long as the person is willing to put in the effort it will take. But an obese person is a whole different story. An obese person is not willing to put the work in on his own, and doesnt have any business in AAS until he can prove himself by regulating his diet and exercise. And it would be almost impossible for him to adjust his AI without BW, so he wouldnt be certain if he was experiencing gyno early enough in some cases, I'd say.

I just think this is an interesting topic, and one we all can learn from if we can keep an open mind and be willing to be wrong. If I am wrong with anything, on any topic, I want to know it so that I dont say or do something to harm someone else. And as a "productive" member here, I feel that I need to know everything that I can in order to help wherever I can.

Once your body creates fat cells the only way to destroy them is with surgery but you can deplete them yes. Effort is a big thing with ass. At 20 % bf it is hard to tell if a person is going to put the effort in to there nutrition and training to deplete those fat cells and cycling at the bf % will you get stronger? More than likely yes but you will only make your physic look different if you can maintain proper nutrition and training. We all know you don't need aas to get leaner

[warmouth]

Once your body creates fat cells the only way to destroy them is with surgery but you can deplete them yes. Effort is a big thing with ass. At 20 % bf it is hard to tell if a person is going to put the effort in to there nutrition and training to deplete those fat cells and cycling at the bf % will you get stronger? More than likely yes but you will only make your physic look different if you can maintain proper nutrition and training. We all know you don't need aas to get leaner

Maybe it was you I got that from then. I whole heartedly agree. 20% is hard to tell if the person is serious or not. I know for myself, even though I was never a lifter, I was serious about my looks and health. I was always an endurance-type athelete, so lifting was not really my thing. But after several injuries, I just couldnt keep running, swimming, etc. Lifting isnt easy on me at all, but it is easier than running 10 miles, or swimming 2. I have several injuries that limit my range of motion while lifting, so I have to adapt. But once I got to the point that I wasnt very active with running and such, I did put on some BF, and I hated it. It is much harder to lose, even with a great diet, when youve been very active for so long, than abruptly stop. My diet was never "bad" but my metabolism was shot. Once I decided to take the plunge, my BF just melted off and I got back down to what I consider low. As long as I can maintain a BF of 15% or under, I am perfectly fine. Anything over that, I get self-conscious and all that goes with that. But if I did get to 20%, it wasnt because I wasnt serious about health or appearances. It was just because of my metabolism. I looked very thin when I was 17-18%, but when the shirt came off, I was soft and slightly flabby. I am thin by nature, and it is very hard for me to put muscle on, which could be from years of endurance training. So if someone is a little over 15%, I am not overly concerned with advising them, I just want to find some background to their story. If they were like me, then I would be ok with it, but if they just started training, eat like garbage, and are lazy, it is pretty easy to see through all of that when you find out a little about their past experience.

So, do you know if there is more aromatase in a person with higher BF since the cells are still there? This is what I am looking for at the moment but am coming up empty.

[MuscleInk]

I'd like to dig on this one. I think all of us should honestly. Maybe even get Stem in on it. From my understanding, just because you lose a certain amount of body fat, doesnt actually mean you lose fat cells. I think they just shrink. I'm pretty sure I heard one of the Nutrition gurus talk to a female member recently on the subject, and he had alot of data to support it. So I dont know if there is more aromatase enzyme in expanded fat cells or not, hopefully he will chime in.

I personally think Metalject has something up his sleeve here and not abandoning it. I just think he is letting us ponder it. I am serious about him being on of the most knowledgeable guys on AAS that I have ever seen, as far as common sense stuff is concerned. So lets be patient with him because I guarantee you he will plop something on us after he reads all of this over.

As far as my comments go, I think 15-20ish is ok, but I also dont see 15-20 as unhealthy. Much more than we could make that argument. But AAS can help a 18% BF (like I was) drop a significant amount of BF as long as the person is willing to put in the effort it will take. But an obese person is a whole different story. An obese person is not willing to put the work in on his own, and doesnt have any business in AAS until he can prove himself by regulating his diet and exercise. And it would be almost impossible for him to adjust his AI without BW, so he wouldnt be certain if he was experiencing gyno early enough in some cases, I'd say.

I just think this is an interesting topic, and one we all can learn from if we can keep an open mind and be willing to be wrong. If I am wrong with anything, on any topic, I want to know it so that I dont say or do something to harm someone else. And as a "productive" member here, I feel that I need to know everything that I can in order to help wherever I can.

You don't lose adipocytes. They decrease in size. To make matters worse....you can actually increase the number of adipocytes through poor nutrition and a sedentary life style.

[warmouth]

You don't lose adipocytes. They decrease in size. To make matters worse....you can actually increase the number of adipocytes through poor nutrition and a sedentary life style.

Eeeesh!

[MuscleInk]

Eeeesh!

There's always liposuction! Lol

[--->>405<<---]

There's always liposuction! Lol

yeh but liposuction destroys all the connective tissue(or whatever u call it) which if u re-gain the fat back (as u probably know) can result in some unsightly fat!

[MuscleInk]

Adipose tissue stores aromatase. So, more fatty tissue equates to faster conversion of testosterone to estrogen. More estrogen means more side effects... And, we live in a world where guys stick needles full of testosterone into the side of their ass without a PCT protocol much less an AI on board... So, I see both sides of the argument.

Absolutely correct! Lets not forget that elevated estrogens are linked with a number of maladies (cancer, bone disorders, hypertension and a number of cardiac risks). Yes, the aromatase can be managed but how much of an AI is needed? The prevailing thought is that an AI is an AI and as long as you are dosing, everything is fine. But there aren't any guarantees. A single 0.25mg dose of adex EOD may suffice for one person and be in adequate for another.

Do you have to be 15% or less? No, but the risks are certainly lower if your bf is lower and there simply is no contesting this. The 15% is a recommended guideline that many of us suggest but by no means is it gospel. If you're 30% bf or more, are we going to stop you? No. It's an individual choice, but be sure you understand that the risks are indeed higher, understand those risks, and be willing to accept the consequences.

I don't think anyone here has ever said you MUST be 15% or lower. It's simply advised and for some gear (anavar and mast as two examples) you will see less results the higher the bf.

I think the greater problem we face is not the bf issue, rather, two many people think a few cycles of steroids are all that's needed to give you the physique of a pro body builder and that simply is NOT the case.

[warmouth]

I don't think anyone here has ever said you MUST be 15% or lower. It's simply advised and for some gear (anavar and mast as two examples) you will see less results the higher the bf.

Well........C**S**** mentioned a week or 2 ago that if a person cant get to single digits on their own, they were lazy, and they have no business using AAS. I had to show some disagreement with him on that one. But he has been the only case of a vet saying anything like that since Ive been here.