Overheard On The News Tonight......

[Shol'va]

That American students are so dumb, so stupid that our American high tech jobs which are in the thousands are going unfilled and the companies are going overseas to find foreign students to fill those jobs here in America. As they are so much smarter than any American Student. That's sad. According to USA Today over 50% of US Schools fail federal standards. America has received scores of 500 on a scale that goes up to 1000, 487 in math, 500 in reading, and 502 in science. Out of 70 countries around the world, America rated 14th for reading skills, 17th for science, and a below average 25th for math."This is an absolute wake-up call for America," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in an interview with The Associated Press. "The results are extraordinarily challenging to us and we have to deal with the brutal truth. We have to get much more serious about investing in education." In response to this latest fiasco, Prez Obama was quoted as saying "Hey I got You All Obama Care What More Do You Want?" jk

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/bu...anted=all&_r=0

[MickeyKnox]

Interesting. Where did Canada score on the list?

[Euroholic]

Most first world Countries have dumb people... Because why do we need to be smart. I never finshed high school and i earn 200k a year. Were people in poor countries have to work hard to get ahead.

[Shol'va]

Interesting. Where did Canada score on the list?

Somewhere in this web page might be your answer, see bottom of post, but whatever the score you guys are doing better than American children are. Just because we are the worlds superpower doesn't mean we are the worlds best in all other areas. And with the US sliding violently south with it's underachieving children it will be just a matter of time before another country takes over as the worlds superpower. Want to take bets on who the next super power might end up being? Uhum China? Well think about it their children are some of the smartest in the world and with them going after all of Americas information and secrets on a daily basis, stealing everything they can, well it shouldn't be too long before they have all they need to leap frog ahead of us. There is so much espionage going on from that country it's disgusting. And we have so many Americans willing to sell out their country for money and why not? What is the punishment for treason a couple years in camp fed? It goes back to lack of leadership I think. Both Democrats and Republicans could care less as all they care about is who has the majority in the house and senate. As for everyone and everything else, they don't give a damn! I wish we could clean house and lock all those SOB's up in prison and start over and actually put people in there that would work for the people and country instead of their selfish greedy selves.....Hey it doesn't hurt to wish...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...the-world.html

[MickeyKnox]

I know, its sad. Like George Carlin once said, "Do you have a pencil? Yes? Right this way."

I thought treason was punishable by death?

Anyway, nothing on there about us moose meat eaters. Maybe we dont count?

[Shol'va]

I know, its sad. Like George Carlin once said, "Do you have a pencil? Yes? Right this way."

I thought treason was punishable by death?

Anyway, nothing on there about us moose meat eaters. Maybe we dont count?

Or maybe you all do so well that you aren't included in those results....nah that can't be right..lol
And in America treason is no longer punished by death. I'm not sure if anything one does is punishable by death. We don't kill people for killing people either. That is just cruel. but then somewhere in the Bible it says something about not judging, but instead send them to the Lord for judgment, so we need to arrange the meetings.

[MickeyKnox]

Or maybe you all do so well that you aren't included in those results....nah that can't be right..lol
And in America treason is no longer punished by death. I'm not sure if anything one does is punishable by death. We don't kill people for killing people either. That is just cruel. but then somewhere in the Bible it says something about not judging, but instead send them to the Lord for judgment, so we need to arrange the meetings.

So said Denzel..

I didnt know that about the death penalty and the USA. I thought you guys still had that in some states...Texas? They don't fvck around in Texas.

[Shol'va]

So said Denzel..

I didnt know that about the death penalty and the USA. I thought you guys still had that in some states...Texas? They don't fvck around in Texas.

Yeah I think Texas can still put um down but they are fewer and farther between. So many people now say it's cruel and unusual punishment to put a man down, even if he did kill a hundred others. However if memory serves, they put Timothy McVeigh down about 6 years after he was convicted of blowing up the building in Oklahoma City..Seems like that was the fastest I've heard of anyone being put down for murder. They usually are drawn out for many years like about 18 going through several appeals as we the tax payers pay for all their care room and board. I swear I think we have the largest prison population of any country in the world! Yet we are the most free nation in the world. Go figure. But from what I'm told most of our prison populations are drug related offenses. So we either need to legalize drugs or stop them once and for all from coming in across our super secure borders that we the tax payers pay millions to keep so secure as thousands of illegal mexicans cross through daily. Man i'm on a sarcasm roll tonight..lol

[MickeyKnox]

Yeah man youre fired up tonight..lol

getting back to your earlier comment of judgement, the bible says eye for an eye. I dont believe in bibles and gods, but many folks do. And perhaps this is why the god fearing states still have the death penalty. I may be off base here, but that's my small take on the matter.

I believe in an eye for an eye IF there were a guarantee of never any mistakes.

[Shol'va]

Yeah man youre fired up tonight..lol

getting back to your earlier comment of judgement, the bible says eye for an eye. I dont believe in bibles and gods, but many folks do. And perhaps this is why the god fearing states still have the death penalty. I may be off base here, but that's my small take on the matter.

I believe in an eye for an eye IF there were a guarantee of never any mistakes.

Same here but unfortunately with our system people fall through the cracks. Hell look at how many have now been saved by DNA results. Thank goodness for DNA testing or else them poor guys would still be rotting in prison for something they didn't do. So yeah if there is 100 percent certainty, then fry um! But I think before we put them down if they are 100 percent guilty that we should harvest any good organs and allow others to live, kind of a giving back to society as a last act before death. I know some might think that's not right but hey if they are going to be put down and some innocent people need kidneys or liver or eyes, why not help them as a last act of return kindness before being put down.

[m_donnelly]

I'm a math and science teacher so I'll chime in on this one.

The United States struggled in education for the following reasons:

1. We don't use a tracked system the way other first world counties do. A tracked system can cover a wide spectrum of systems. Some countries test the kids in 8th-9th grade and then ship those that aren't up to par into a trade apprenticeship while those that pass go on to a university/college track. Others, like Canada, simply split their classes up according to ability level. For example, there are three sections of Algebra 1 offered: one for advanced learners, another for average students and then a remedial course. The kids are moved up as they improve. We don't do that in the US and its a BITCH to deal with... For example, last year, I had a student score in the 97th percentile on his ACTs and is going to Cornell. He was in the same class as a kid who was in the 4th percentile on the state standardized tests. It's extremely hard to teach effectively when the kids vary so greatly in ability. We're told that we need to come up with lessons that put the average-above average students on autopilot while we focus our attention on the lower level learners.

2. Our current education system takes any accountability off of the kids' shoulders. There are schools where you literally have to go through a five step process before a kid can fail your class and most of these steps involve legal accommodations that are bullshit. Right now, I have a student that can leave my classroom and go to the counselor's office at any time; he gets pissed off at me and can just leave. When he does this, I have to provide him with an assignment that's "appropriate" for him to do away from class. In other words, he can leave my class during a test and I have to provide him with a take home test. He goes home, has his mom do the test for him and brings it back to me. He's failing right now but that's because I have pushed the system; I've met with his parents, the principal and the counselor on four different occasions, followed his "accommodations" and made sure he's being taught at "his level". He still hasn't done shit and he's gotten to the point where his mom can't help him with his "accommodated" tests because she doesn't know the material.

3. No Child Left Behind legislation drops funding from schools that don't pass tests. Schools lose incredible amounts of money if kids aren't up to par. So, your shit poor ghetto schools with kids who come from terrible home lives with no value on education become even more shit-poor because they've bombed tests.

[Shol'va]

I'm a math and science teacher so I'll chime in on this one.

The United States struggled in education for the following reasons:

1. We don't use a tracked system the way other first world counties do. A tracked system can cover a wide spectrum of systems. Some countries test the kids in 8th-9th grade and then ship those that aren't up to par into a trade apprenticeship while those that pass go on to a university/college track. Others, like Canada, simply split their classes up according to ability level. For example, there are three sections of Algebra 1 offered: one for advanced learners, another for average students and then a remedial course. The kids are moved up as they improve. We don't do that in the US and its a BITCH to deal with... For example, last year, I had a student score in the 97th percentile on his ACTs and is going to Cornell. He was in the same class as a kid who was in the 4th percentile on the state standardized tests. It's extremely hard to teach effectively when the kids vary so greatly in ability. We're told that we need to come up with lessons that put the average-above average students on autopilot while we focus our attention on the lower level learners.

2. Our current education system takes any accountability off of the kids' shoulders. There are schools where you literally have to go through a five step process before a kid can fail your class and most of these steps involve legal accommodations that are bullshit. Right now, I have a student that can leave my classroom and go to the counselor's office at any time; he gets pissed off at me and can just leave. When he does this, I have to provide him with an assignment that's "appropriate" for him to do away from class. In other words, he can leave my class during a test and I have to provide him with a take home test. He goes home, has his mom do the test for him and brings it back to me. He's failing right now but that's because I have pushed the system; I've met with his parents, the principal and the counselor on four different occasions, followed his "accommodations" and made sure he's being taught at "his level". He still hasn't done shit and he's gotten to the point where his mom can't help him with his "accommodated" tests because she doesn't know the material.

3. No Child Left Behind legislation drops funding from schools that don't pass tests. Schools lose incredible amounts of money if kids aren't up to par. So, your shit poor ghetto schools with kids who come from terrible home lives with no value on education become even more shit-poor because they've bombed tests.

Putting above average students on autopilot while you focus on the lower level learners is totally unfair to the above average ones and denying them of possible improvement on their courses. But instead are starved for information while they twiddle their thumbs and lose interest completely in the class being taught. Wow what an American system! So not only does the school fail the lower class students but they actually succeed in losing the upper learners as well. Only in America. But I remember in some of my classes where the teachers just passed the failing kids so they would not have to teach them yet again the following year. So I kind of understand the system failures. Man how I wish they would teach responsibility to learning. I look around and see the kids of today and think wow how on earth are they going to make it in todays world? And guess what? They aren't. So as America is dumbed down by who knows for sure, the rest of the world passes us by and we further slide behind. I wish I could remember the numbers of our society right now on Government assistance. The figure was astounding. and I was wondering then how on earth can we continue allowing the government to support all those out there that don't or won't work anymore and also give them all Obama Cell phones for free with SSI or SSDI. See link below. 250 minutes plus a free phone plus texting! Not only that but they also get food stamps and other goodies. So maybe it pays to not learn, well except how to live off our government.

http://www.freegovernmentcellphones.net/

[Armykid93]

Great post sholva. Very interesting. I know I'll probably get flak for it but I blame the seniority system with our schools, if a teachers been there for 10 years they aren't getting fired. That comes straight from a teacher, one of my high school teacher told me that.

[Rwy]

Great post sholva. Very interesting. I know I'll probably get flak for it but I blame the seniority system with our schools, if a teachers been there for 10 years they aren't getting fired. That comes straight from a teacher, one of my high school teacher told me that.

This def plays a part but I think its mostly the parents. A buddy of mine switched his kids to catholic school bc his kids were getting too much work in public school and it was like a secnod job once he was done with work.

[m_donnelly]

A tenured teacher can be fired, make no mistake. It takes some effort on the part of the administration (evaluation, documentation, etc...)but it can still happen. It doesn't happen because it's expensive as it goes to court.

With that being said, I don't disagree with the concept of tenure; it just needs to be managed better. It needs to be easier to can them. I have worked with tenured teachers that don't do a damn thing and it pisses me off.

If you want to take the teeth out of tenure and teacher unions then you need to get rid of school boards. It's not very comforting having your job in the hands of elected parents from the community. They're only there to approve the use of public funds but that includes a teacher's salary and they can wreck your career if you cross them. Right now, every board member I answer to has a kid or a grand-kid in school. Who do you think they're going to listen to come contract time: the principal or their kids?

[Rwy]

My brother is a teacher. They def are not as safe as they used to be.

[m_donnelly]

This def plays a part but I think its mostly the parents. A buddy of mine switched his kids to catholic school bc his kids were getting too much work in public school and it was like a secnod job once he was done with work.

I've taught in both private Catholic schools and public schools and here are the major differences:

1. The parents at the private school want their kids to be there. So, they're generally supportive of the school and teachers.

2. If a kid isn't cutting it academically at a private school then they're gone. There's generally no special accommodations or hoops to jump through; do the work, learn, or get out. The teachers are still intent on making sure the kids learn but lazy asses with bad attitudes go away. The parents know this so they make sure Lil Johnny had his shit together. This cannot happen in a public school.

3. Behaviorally issues are handled very simply; screw up enough and you leave. It takes a lot of screwing up to boot a kid from a public school. I've got a girl right now who's been in three fights on school grounds, had been busted smokinh behind the school along with a myriad of other issues and the school board won't boot her. Her bullshit alone has set her class period back by three weeks; she's the disruptive

[MickeyKnox]

Same here but unfortunately with our system people fall through the cracks. Hell look at how many have now been saved by DNA results. Thank goodness for DNA testing or else them poor guys would still be rotting in prison for something they didn't do. So yeah if there is 100 percent certainty, then fry um! But I think before we put them down if they are 100 percent guilty that we should harvest any good organs and allow others to live, kind of a giving back to society as a last act before death. I know some might think that's not right but hey if they are going to be put down and some innocent people need kidneys or liver or eyes, why not help them as a last act of return kindness before being put down.

Hey, i like that idea. You must be an pro active recycler around the house?

I'm a math and science teacher so I'll chime in on this one.

The United States struggled in education for the following reasons:

1. We don't use a tracked system the way other first world counties do. A tracked system can cover a wide spectrum of systems. Some countries test the kids in 8th-9th grade and then ship those that aren't up to par into a trade apprenticeship while those that pass go on to a university/college track. Others, like Canada, simply split their classes up according to ability level. For example, there are three sections of Algebra 1 offered: one for advanced learners, another for average students and then a remedial course. The kids are moved up as they improve. We don't do that in the US and its a BITCH to deal with... For example, last year, I had a student score in the 97th percentile on his ACTs and is going to Cornell. He was in the same class as a kid who was in the 4th percentile on the state standardized tests. It's extremely hard to teach effectively when the kids vary so greatly in ability. We're told that we need to come up with lessons that put the average-above average students on autopilot while we focus our attention on the lower level learners.

2. Our current education system takes any accountability off of the kids' shoulders. There are schools where you literally have to go through a five step process before a kid can fail your class and most of these steps involve legal accommodations that are bullshit. Right now, I have a student that can leave my classroom and go to the counselor's office at any time; he gets pissed off at me and can just leave. When he does this, I have to provide him with an assignment that's "appropriate" for him to do away from class. In other words, he can leave my class during a test and I have to provide him with a take home test. He goes home, has his mom do the test for him and brings it back to me. He's failing right now but that's because I have pushed the system; I've met with his parents, the principal and the counselor on four different occasions, followed his "accommodations" and made sure he's being taught at "his level". He still hasn't done shit and he's gotten to the point where his mom can't help him with his "accommodated" tests because she doesn't know the material.

3. No Child Left Behind legislation drops funding from schools that don't pass tests. Schools lose incredible amounts of money if kids aren't up to par. So, your shit poor ghetto schools with kids who come from terrible home lives with no value on education become even more shit-poor because they've bombed tests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg

[Flagg]

Political Correctness and parents have killed teachers.

In short, a child can be an absolute monster and there isn't one damn thing the teacher can do for fear of losing their job.

[Armykid93]

Political Correctness and parents have killed teachers.

In short, a child can be an absolute monster and there isn't one damn thing the teacher can do for fear of losing their job.

Its a two way street for sure. Bad teachers and bad politics, sucks.

[m_donnelly]

Its a two way street for sure. Bad teachers and bad politics, sucks.

I'm going to start by defining a "bad teacher". A "bad teacher" is one that doesn't manage their classroom. They're the teacher that doesn't discipline the kids and demand that they stay on task and focused. The kids aren't learning because the educator doesn't hold them accountable. Now, the media and society calls any teacher "bad" when the kids aren't learning because "they're not all being reached" or "all learning styles aren't being considered". I've been called a "bad teacher" by people because a) I demand discipline in my room b) if you're going to phuck around, you're going to leave and c) I hold the kids accountable, through and through. If you don't do the projects, take your notes, do your assignments, and pass the tests and quizzes, then you fail. The kids get the grade they earn. What do I hear when a kid bombs my class because they haven't done shit or come in for extra help? "You're not teaching me the way I should be taught."

The current system is producing a lot of ineffective teachers as well. Seriously, good, experienced teachers are leaving the field early to go work in the private sector because of all the bullshit. I'm sticking with it because I have job security; math and science teachers are few and far between. But, I have a Masters in Exercise Physiology along with my education degree so chances are I'll end up in another field down the road. At some point, I will get tired of the American education system and its mediocrity and move on.

[Rwy]

Political Correctness and parents have killed teachers.

In short, a child can be an absolute monster and there isn't one damn thing the teacher can do for fear of losing their job.

So true. I was a monster when I was a kid and they would call my parents and my father would give me a beating. Most of these parents have the not my kid attitude

[m_donnelly]

Political Correctness and parents have killed teachers.

In short, a child can be an absolute monster and there isn't one damn thing the teacher can do for fear of losing their job.

This is another thing that creates bad teachers; they're more worried about their jobs then disciplining the kids. I've been called to task for being as strict as I am and my response to the parents and administration is always the same. I tell them that I'll quit education long before I let some little monster screw up my classroom.

For example, I had a student pissed off at me because I kept kicking her out for not working. I pulled her aside in the hallway (in front of a security camera) to try and sort something out. She told me to phuck off so I shipped her to detention. She came back in the next day with her mother, claiming that I "grabbed her by the arm and yelled at her in the hallway". The pricipal and I pulled up the security tape and showed mom what really happened. I then told mom that she had better be ready with a lawyer if she came in and pulled that shit again because I'd sue her ass for threatening my career.