Do you believe one can control one's environment through metaphysical processes?

[Times Roman]

This is a serious question, as for thousands of years, humankind has believed that they have the ability of controlling their environment through metaphysical processes.

For example, the use of incantations while performing specific rituals is often believed to have effects on either those performing the rituals or others not present. These incantations and rituals can have either a positive or negative effect on the intended target(s).

Additionally, there are those that believe that certain symbols will either ward off bad luck or attract good luck, such as those tattooed on sailors arms.

There are many more examples, some very simple, like an architect's avoidance of labeling a thirteenth floor in a building.

So I wanted to see your reaction to this thought, and hear what you have to say.

Is it all bullshit? Or is there some legitimacy to this?

[stpete]

Bullshit.

[thegodfather]

Placebo in my opinion.......You should take a look at what happens in the Hippocampus when people engage in praying....Researchers have also identified a gene, called the 'God' gene, which is present in people who display more religious fervor than others....

[Times Roman]

so you don't believe in luck?

when you are at a casino, you don't think the dice can land in your favor beyond a random chance?

why is it some people seem "charmed" and others "born under a bad sign"?

[Honkey_Kong]

so you don't believe in luck?

when you are at a casino, you don't think the dice can land in your favor beyond a random chance?

why is it some people seem "charmed" and others "born under a bad sign"?

Luck is nothing more than the rationalization of short-term probability.

As far as dice landing beyond random chance, they have a term for it in the casino world. It's called cheating. The only way you can stop those dice from rolling on a totally random pathway is for you to control the velocity and direction the dice roll as they leave your hand.

I myself don't believe in luck. It's bad luck to believe in such nonsense.

[basketballfan22]

Yeah, I definitely believe this is bullshit; and any effect is a placebo one.

[Times Roman]

ok,, then let's look at something fairly modern...

...what about "positive affirmations"?

[stpete]

ok,, then let's look at something fairly modern...

...what about "positive affirmations"?

Positive what?

[Times Roman]

Positive what?

Affirmations (New Age) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[stpete]

But how do we keep this positive thinking? I don't know. i read the the wiki like 5 times and still confused.

[stpete]

It's bad luck to believe in such nonsense.


Well said!

[belva]

I believe our mind is a powerful tool.
One of my best quote is "when someone is truly ready for a thing it puts in its appereance"

We could talk for hours about the power of the mind, it's not only about positive affermations, or incantation as Tony Robbins suggested, it's much more deeper and also much more simple.

Going back to your question...can someone control the environment... well, I believe we create our own reality, if one only sees shit going on, only watch the news on tv and keep hanging out with distructive people the only thing he will see is a shitty world. Human brains are made to sincronise to eachother, show me your 3 best friend/the 3 person who you spend more time with and I can tell you who you are (that's another qote I like).

I don't know if I went off topic or you wanted to know about this. I can keep going if you think I am responding in anyway at your question.

Regarding luck, I read about a study that said that they took people who believe they were lucky and ask them to flip a coin and guessing head or tail. To another group who believe they were unluky the same task was asked. The result shows that both groups guessed right approssimatily the same time, however, the people who believe to be lucky shown to remember the time they guess right. So the final result of the study shown that people who believe they are lucky tend to remember the good things that happen in their life whereas the ones who believe they are unlucky don't.

[Times Roman]

there are many that believe the seventh son of a seventh son has great metaphysical ramifications.....

[stpete]

there are many that believe the seventh son of a seventh son has great metaphysical ramifications.....

And how often is there a 7th son of a 7th son?

[Times Roman]

And how often is there a 7th son of a 7th son?

extremely rare. it occurs less than once every million births.

[belva]

from the same wife? or can be from a different one?

[Times Roman]

I believe our mind is a powerful tool.
One of my best quote is "when someone is truly ready for a thing it puts in its appereance"

We could talk for hours about the power of the mind, it's not only about positive affermations, or incantation as Tony Robbins suggested, it's much more deeper and also much more simple.

Going back to your question...can someone control the environment... well, I believe we create our own reality, if one only sees shit going on, only watch the news on tv and keep hanging out with distructive people the only thing he will see is a shitty world. Human brains are made to sincronise to eachother, show me your 3 best friend/the 3 person who you spend more time with and I can tell you who you are (that's another qote I like).

I don't know if I went off topic or you wanted to know about this. I can keep going if you think I am responding in anyway at your question.

Regarding luck, I read about a study that said that they took people who believe they were lucky and ask them to flip a coin and guessing head or tail. To another group who believe they were unluky the same task was asked. The result shows that both groups guessed right approssimatily the same time, however, the people who believe to be lucky shown to remember the time they guess right. So the final result of the study shown that people who believe they are lucky tend to remember the good things that happen in their life whereas the ones who believe they are unlucky don't.

you are discussing perception issues, I'm looking for actual structural changes in the environment through processes other than the obviously physical ones.....

from the same wife? or can be from a different one?

if I am the seventh son of a seventh son, my dad would have to be a seventh son, and I would have to be his seventh son.

in all probability, would require two separate women separated by a generation (one for my grandfather, and one for my dad)

[belva]

I didn't mean that a woman have to conceive 14 kids... 7 from me and seven from my father, that's quite weird.
But since I never heard about this before I wanted to know if there are some rules where 7 kids must be conceived from one woman or can be 2 or 3 during the first marrige/relationship? so the 7th one has the quality this metaphysical quality that can be transmitter to his 7th son

[Times Roman]

I didn't mean that a woman have to conceive 14 kids... 7 from me and seven from my father, that's quite weird.
But since I never heard about this before I wanted to know if there are some rules where 7 kids must be conceived from one woman or can be 2 or 3 during the first marrige/relationship? so the 7th one has the quality this metaphysical quality that can be transmitter to his 7th son

the belief of majikal powers bestowed on the seventh son of a seventh son has been around for hundreds of years...

Seventh son of a seventh son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[belva]

the belief of majikal powers bestowed on the seventh son of a seventh son has been around for hundreds of years...

Seventh son of a seventh son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you. That's what I need it.

[Times Roman]

I tried working out the statistical probability of such an event occurring one time.

If every marriage perpetuated through all the child bearing ages, and if every family always produced at least seven children, then the odds in the first generation would be 63:1 against such an occurrence.

Next I tried to determine the bell shaped distribution curve of the number of babies born to a man and the statistical probability of even having seven children. Seven children is moderately rare in the modern era. And I was having some trouble finding the right data. Once this probability is known, call it X, then the odds of a first generation seventh son of a seventh son would be 63X:1

Of all the families you know, how many have seven children all from the same father and mother? Do you even know any? I don't. So the odds of that happening are pretty slim.

Now, say we have such a male, 7th son of a 7th son. Assume he survives to a reproductive age (again, consider the odds), assume he's not gay ( what, a 90% chance of that), and assume he get's married and begins to have children. let's just say all those criterion are 2:3 against this happening, or a 2/3 chance it does happen. Who knows, i'm pulling data out my hat right at the moment. So before he begins having children, the odds of him even being ready are 63X(3/2) against, or about 90X against. Remember now, that 50% of all marriages end in divorce, so this X factor really is a large number. I'm thinking if you DO know a family that has seven children, it is probably due to the "brady bunch" effect (children from multiple marriages). I'm going to take a stab at it and say the odds of seven children from the same male/female is 250 against.

So now the odds of a first generation 7th son of a 7th son is

90 x 250 = 22,500 against such an occurrence.

So therefore the odds of a second generation 7th son, would be

22,500 x 22,500 =

(about 500,000,000:1 against such an occurrence)

so in ancient times, this didn't happen except maybe once in many generations spanning hundreds of years.

an extremely rare occurrence.

[basketballfan22]

The odds of having seven sons with no females born in-between during any generation would be (1/2)^7 = 1/128. Where did you get the 63:1 odds from?

[Times Roman]

1:1
1:2
1:4
1:8
1:16
1:32
1:64

that's seven iterations, right?

[Times Roman]

1:1
1:2
1:4
1:8
1:16
1:32
1:64

that's seven iterations, right?

oh shit.

the first iteration is misleading

1:1 = 50%
and the 7th iteration is 1:128

thanks for the catch.

so by my shoe string analysis,the odds just now jumped to about a billion to one against, which means there have only been maybe a couple of dozen in the entire span of human kind

[basketballfan22]

oh shit.

the first iteration is misleading

1:1 = 50%
and the 7th iteration is 1:128

thanks for the catch.

so by my shoe string analysis,the odds just now jumped to about a billion to one against, which means there have only been maybe a couple of dozen in the entire span of human kind

Yep!

[basketballfan22]

Assuming the probability of having a female and male are equal (it is extremely close), then you have a 1/2 chance of having a son the first time. You then have a 1/2 chance of having a son the next time. You multiply these odds 7 times to get (1/2)^7 = 1/128. Don't think of ratios like 1:1.

[Zodiac82]

I for sure think it's possible....have u ever been thinkin about a tv shows episode only to see that episode come on "out of nowhere" later that day or week? OOOORR been singing a song in ur head and the person next to u starts singing it aloud? Or when u have a topic or word....like winnebago....somethin completely not common and it starts being used by ppl or hearing it on tv

-Release the Kracken!!!-

[kalspic]

I for sure think it's possible....have u ever been thinkin about a tv shows episode only to see that episode come on "out of nowhere" later that day or week? OOOORR been singing a song in ur head and the person next to u starts singing it aloud? Or when u have a topic or word....like winnebago....somethin completely not common and it starts being used by ppl or hearing it on tv

-Release the Kracken!!!-

i was just about to mention that. i think its called esp?

there will be times im at the poker tables and i can feel or sense what the other player has almost exactly, even without tells. its like my gut feeling. idk but i think there is something there

[Times Roman]

i was just about to mention that. i think its called esp?

there will be times im at the poker tables and i can feel or sense what the other player has almost exactly, even without tells. its like my gut feeling. idk but i think there is something there

ESP may be something else, and could quite possibly be explainable (if verifiable) through some other physical process. For example, a dog sense of smell is so acute that they can smell a gnat fart 100 feet away, and the gnat is down wind! Because we lack that sensory input, we have a tendency to label it "ESP".

[Honkey_Kong]

i was just about to mention that. i think its called esp?

there will be times im at the poker tables and i can feel or sense what the other player has almost exactly, even without tells. its like my gut feeling. idk but i think there is something there

It's actually the person you're reading. You can get a pretty good idea of what's in their hands based on how they play and what their mannerisms are. Everybody has a reaction no matter how subtle when their money is involved.

[knuckles69]

The power of suggestion is an incredible weapon when used correctly. If one believes something with their entire heart they can convince people, even if others are non believers that maybe anything is possible no matter how crazy it is

[Times Roman]

and why is it some feel it is bad luck to speak ill of the dead?

[SexySweetheart]

This is a serious question, as for thousands of years, humankind has believed that they have the ability of controlling their environment through metaphysical processes.

For example, the use of incantations while performing specific rituals is often believed to have effects on either those performing the rituals or others not present. These incantations and rituals can have either a positive or negative effect on the intended target(s).

Additionally, there are those that believe that certain symbols will either ward off bad luck or attract good luck, such as those tattooed on sailors arms.

There are many more examples, some very simple, like an architect's avoidance of labeling a thirteenth floor in a building.

So I wanted to see your reaction to this thought, and hear what you have to say.

Is it all bullshit? Or is there some legitimacy to this?

ok this is def gonna sound weird lol BUT every time a foster child leave my home ( reunify s with family or ages out of care etc) I do a smugging of the house and car. I love learning new sh!t and if it resonates with me on some level no matter how small I HAVE TO TRY IT OUT. and I went to a wiccan smugging once and was over whelmed with feelings- long story short, on some level i firmly believe that in some strange way it helps me and possibly the environment to release old energy and be open to new energy.

also a firm believer in the ACTIVE IN-VISIONING or some people relate it to the secret blah blah blah but i know that when there has been something i have wanted and poured my daily focus into- it has become a part of my life (including TigerShark) but i believe that has more to do with being open to talking active and at times scary steps in the faith that it will lead you to your desires and telling your slef daily it will happen for you

[Times Roman]

ok this is def gonna sound weird lol BUT every time a foster child leave my home ( reunify s with family or ages out of care etc) I do a smugging of the house and car. I love learning new sh!t and if it resonates with me on some level no matter how small I HAVE TO TRY IT OUT. and I went to a wiccan smugging once and was over whelmed with feelings- long story short, on some level i firmly believe that in some strange way it helps me and possibly the environment to release old energy and be open to new energy.

also a firm believer in the ACTIVE IN-VISIONING or some people relate it to the secret blah blah blah but i know that when there has been something i have wanted and poured my daily focus into- it has become a part of my life (including TigerShark) but i believe that has more to do with being open to talking active and at times scary steps in the faith that it will lead you to your desires and telling your slef daily it will happen for you

ok, uh...

...what?

let me read this silly thing again...

so... what's a smugging? does it feel good? or taste good? Inquiring minds would like to know!

and this overwhelmed with feelings....

...is that with or without the wine? =)

damn sexy!

you need to speak more slowly so I can understand what you are saying. I've got a pretty decent buzz going on....

[SexySweetheart]

ok, uh...

...what?

let me read this silly thing again...

so... what's a smugging? does it feel good? or taste good? Inquiring minds would like to know!

and this overwhelmed with feelings....

...is that with or without the wine? =)

damn sexy!

you need to speak more slowly so I can understand what you are saying. I've got a pretty decent buzz going on....

*hick up* ooop soory - yesssss wine is good and so is the buzz..

smugging , nt sure how to explain it so i will wiki it for you and cut/past :
Sage and Smudge

What is Smudging?

The modern-day practice of burning sage (or sage combined with other dried herbs) in personal smudging rituals and ceremonies is based on a combination of the spiritual, medicinal, herbal and cultural teachings of the past.
Essentially, a smudge ritual or a smudge ceremony is performed to correct the energy in a home, in an office, in an object, or even in a person. This is accomplished by burning sage or sage and a combination of herbs, in a focused, intentional way to cleanse out negative energy and to replenish positive, healing energy. Click on the links at right to find out more about this ancient healing ritual and how you can utilize it in your life...A smudge stick is a bundle of dried herbs, most often used by members of New Age or Neopagannew religious movements and practitioners of Neo-shamanism. The leaves are usually bound with string in a small bundle and dried. Plants that are often used include sage, cedar, lavender, or mugwort.
The English term "smudge stick" is usually found in use among non-Indigenous people who believe they are practicing misappropriated North American Native spiritual traditions. But the herbs and methods used are rarely the actual materials or rituals used by traditional Native Americans. Using scent and scented smoke in religious rites is an element common to many religions and cultures, but the details vary with the specific cultures and ceremonies.

lol yes with out wine.....goof

[lovbyts]

Do I believe that positive (glass 1/2 full) thinking will change or effect the outcome or my luck???? Probably not but I know it makes me FEEL better and causes less stress or at least it has for the last many years.

Now having to deal with someone who tends to think just the opposite (glass 1/2 empty) can eventually wear you down even if you are a positive thinker so be forewarned.... Try to stick to people of the same mindset.

As for magic, spells, good luck charms or voodoo dolls???? I tend to not believe in any effect especially if the person on the receiving end knows nothing about it but if someone knows about it they can unknowingly affect the outcome.

[--->>405<<---]

what do u believe TR?

[Times Roman]

what do u believe TR?

not sure what to believe. I've no personal experience with anything paranormal or metaphysical, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there. When I was a kid, I was fascinated by the idea of séances. Neighbor lady down the street belonged to a coven, and held a few séances. I was trying to be serious, but some of the others just wanted to joke around.

But.... the older I get, and the longer I go without any direct first hand experience, the less likely it seems there is anything paranormal or metaphysical....

*hick up* ooop soory - yesssss wine is good and so is the buzz..

smugging , nt sure how to explain it so i will wiki it for you and cut/past :
Sage and Smudge

What is Smudging?

The modern-day practice of burning sage (or sage combined with other dried herbs) in personal smudging rituals and ceremonies is based on a combination of the spiritual, medicinal, herbal and cultural teachings of the past.
Essentially, a smudge ritual or a smudge ceremony is performed to correct the energy in a home, in an office, in an object, or even in a person. This is accomplished by burning sage or sage and a combination of herbs, in a focused, intentional way to cleanse out negative energy and to replenish positive, healing energy. Click on the links at right to find out more about this ancient healing ritual and how you can utilize it in your life...A smudge stick is a bundle of dried herbs, most often used by members of New Age or Neopagannew religious movements and practitioners of Neo-shamanism. The leaves are usually bound with string in a small bundle and dried. Plants that are often used include sage, cedar, lavender, or mugwort.
The English term "smudge stick" is usually found in use among non-Indigenous people who believe they are practicing misappropriated North American Native spiritual traditions. But the herbs and methods used are rarely the actual materials or rituals used by traditional Native Americans. Using scent and scented smoke in religious rites is an element common to many religions and cultures, but the details vary with the specific cultures and ceremonies.

lol yes with out wine.....goof

so let me get this straight. you burn some herbs and it changes your energy?

....shit! we were doing that back in highschool!!

[SexySweetheart]

not sure what to believe. I've no personal experience with anything paranormal or metaphysical, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there. When I was a kid, I was fascinated by the idea of séances. Neighbor lady down the street belonged to a coven, and held a few séances. I was trying to be serious, but some of the others just wanted to joke around.

But.... the older I get, and the longer I go without any direct first hand experience, the less likely it seems there is anything paranormal or metaphysical....



so let me get this straight. you burn some herbs and it changes your energy?

....shit! we were doing that back in highschool!!

lol
well like most things- if you dont have faith in it, you wont believe it and you will subconsciously look for affirmations to confirm your belief or dis belief for that matter. I think prayer voodoo good luck charms smudging etc all kinda boil down to a person needing something out side of them self to gather strength from~ and if it gives them strength or comfort with out putting others down or hindering others joy ... its a good thing

[Flagg]

If luck exists than there is no free will because those set of circumstances were always meant to happen, which meant all your actions throughout your life had precisely guided you to that point.

So no, having a tattoo to ward off evil demons is about as ludicrous as believing in Santa Clause or God. But that's just my opinion.

The only thing that exists in the world approximating "luck" or "bad luck" is probability. If there is a lightening storm and I walk out into a open field and head under a tree with a metal sheet, the odds of me getting hit by lightening are greatly increased. However if I simply walk out into a open field with none of that, there is still a chance I will get hit by lightening regardless, simply by exposing myself a situation where lightening strikes occur. Of course if I stay inside, short of lightening hitting the house and causing a fire, im pretty much safe.