Ugghhhhh, your right Mallet, 21's are brutal. I've never really been able to use the Olympic bar on my curls though, they seem to make my wrists ache to much. I'm with Pa Pa on the arm bursting pumps, I've found myself stopping short on the curls because the pump was so tremendous on A/S. I'm using Winny now, and I hear that EQ feels even worse....uh I mean better?