The E2 Miracle - Voodoo

[bass]

Not what he's saying. E follows T and it will rise depending on T dose, metabolism, fat, and several other factors. No AI dependency.

actually Yes, that's what I was sating. I found out form personal experience and others who posted here. in the beginning of TRT and based on BW our e2 went through the roof no matter what T does we were on! and we needed AI on a regular bases, but as time goes we found that we needed lees and less AI while maintaining same T dose. and of course what you say is true also "depending on T dose" some people convert more than others, this is why BW and leaning how to read signs of high/low e2 symptoms is essential.

[2Sox]

actually Yes, that's what I was sating. I found out form personal experience and others who posted here. in the beginning of TRT and based on BW our e2 went through the roof no matter what T does we were on! and we needed AI on a regular bases, but as time goes we found that we needed lees and less AI while maintaining same T dose. and of course what you say is true also "depending on T dose" some people convert more than others, this is why BW and leaning how to read signs of high/low e2 symptoms is essential.

So there seems to be some difference of opinion between you and Kel. Just for clarification, I'll pose my questions again for the purpose of seeing if we can really get to something about this:

Does this mean that if a guy who begins TRT allows himself to feel like shit for a few months to let things "even out", he'd feel fine after awhile. To extrapolate further, if a person begins on an AI prematurely, does he become dependent on it forever? Does he become an AI addict? It would be great to get the real story on this.

[CobraMustangSVT]

So there seems to be some difference of opinion between you and Kel. Just for clarification, I'll pose my questions again for the purpose of seeing if we can really get to something about this:

Does this mean that if a guy who begins TRT allows himself to feel like shit for a few months to let things "even out", he'd feel fine after awhile. To extrapolate further, if a person begins on an AI prematurely, does he become dependent on it forever? Does he become an AI addict? It would be great to get the real story on this.

This is a good question. My E2 has gone up in the 80's on injections, and it currently sits in the 40's on 2 pumps of agel 1.62. I bumped it up to 3 pumps and just took a blood test today. I don't feel any different at 80, or 40, or even in the 20's (before I started TRT). I'll see where I sit once the results come in.

[Low Testosterone]

Lot’s of comments, rather than addressing each post individually here are my opinions overall.

1. There is nothing wrong with AI’s. I wanted to clarify that first in case my initial responses implied that. I do believe too many tend to rely on them too much or have a false sense of security because of them.

2. 2sox, in reference to most patients being lazy or lacking in education on the matter – it’s really no different than any other topic that’s medically related. Most people do not want to dig deep into the issue and in my opinion that’s OK. If you have any condition or ailment, whatever that might be, you go to the doctor expecting him to know how to fix it or help you. Granted, TRT can be a bit different, not because it’s complicated but because many physicians don’t know how to treat this very simple condition. I do think it’s a good idea for the patient to learn at least a little but I by no means expect it. I know nothing about cars short of changing a flat tire and when I take my car to the mechanic I don’t expect or have any desire to learn – just fix my car.

3. 2sox again, in reference to your E2 levels being over 30 and the way you feel – it may have more to do with your ratio of testosterone to estradiol rather than the estradiol level itself.

4. Nipple sensitivity is not a direct indicator of gyno or E2 being too high. Yes, it can be but growth in the chest is more of an indicator. Nipple sensitivity can be an indicator of increased libido and often is. Further, I have yet to see a man develop gyno with his E2 in the 30-40 range.

5. If a man stays on TRT for a long period of time (remember, most don’t. Most men try it for 6-8 months once or run through several 6-8 month periods and stop and start.) But men who stay on for years, more often than not those that needed an AI early on need less and less and in many cases, none at all. This is very common. I do not have a good scientific answer to this, but it does seem men tend to aromatize less years later than they did in the beginning. We can make the argument that this is because many men are in better shape after being on TRT for an extended period of time, therefore carry less body fat and possibly more muscle tissue. But I am not convinced that this is the reason. I have seen very overweight men who when on TRT aromatize very little and very lean men who aromatize heavily, and on that basis body fat cannot be the primary reason. Do some men always need an AI no matter how long they are on TRT? Yes.

[2Sox]

3. 2sox again, in reference to your E2 levels being over 30 and the way you feel – it may have more to do with your ratio of testosterone to estradiol rather than the estradiol level itself.

Low T,
Can you elaborate on this? Perhaps give some examples and numbers?

[kelkel]

Does this mean that if a guy who begins TRT allows himself to feel like shit for a few months to let things "even out", he'd feel fine after awhile.

If you mean feel like crap directly related to estrogen then no, imho. Although he may simply adapt to how he feels. Interesting question.

@LT. Always appreciate your interaction here!

[bass]

So there seems to be some difference of opinion between you and Kel. Just for clarification, I'll pose my questions again for the purpose of seeing if we can really get to something about this:

Does this mean that if a guy who begins TRT allows himself to feel like shit for a few months to let things "even out", he'd feel fine after awhile. To extrapolate further, if a person begins on an AI prematurely, does he become dependent on it forever? Does he become an AI addict? It would be great to get the real story on this.

obsoletely not! under any circumstances you should not let TRT make you feel like shit. remember everyone responds differently, I think we've established that one size does not fit all when it comes to TRT. this is why I say in the beginning of TRT monitor closely with BW and symptoms so you know what action you need to take. for me it took about a year for things to settle, it took that long because the doctors I was seeing didn't know anything about TRT.

I believe (my opinion) it takes about 6 months on average for someone to fine tune the protocol, mostly its due to your body trying to adjust to the new hormones.