Russia shoots down plane over Ukraine

[Chicagotarsier]

Give War a chance. If you do it right you win and the MF dont mess with you anymore, and if they do then hit them with over whelming power. Love what Israel is doing.

I hope this next election we have a strong leader that takes has a test level over 1000. I'm tired of all the puzzies that have been running the country. Obama is a joke and they are talking about Hillary for President? Why would we want another puzzy in the office, much less a post menopausal senior citizen that cant protect one embassy?

You love the Jewish nation is killing people who had their land stolen and are using 70 year old guns and 50 year old missles are getting wiped out?

You have a choice in your vote...you get the guy who votes for big business or the guy that votes for big business..now try to make a difference. Americans are not involved in the system anymore. The system owns them.

[JimmySidewalk]

Such a war would not benefit anyone and no one would win regardless of who throws the last punch.
For the people who want war, how would you feel when a nuke would land in your parents or kids hometown ? You are pro war because you are miles and miles away from the front line, but you are forgetting that those missiles can go very easily around the world and there are thousands and thousands of them available. A person saying that is certainly someone who has not been part of a theater of war.

Furthermore, its not US's business to get involved in everything. How would you feel if Russia would have sent troops over after 9/11 to supposedly "protect" you from the wicked taliban who want to take your democracy away ? Why get involved in every conflict available ? America is only 250 years old, the World got along just fine without it for thousands of years. You have no idea what is happening in Ukraine and you are only getting info from our own mass media, which could or could not be true, depending on who's interest it serves.

How would you feel if Russia would have sent a million troops and several nuclear submarines and battleships to Cuba when you had the whole issue ? Yes, they interfered but it was extremely minimal compared to what they had available back then. Now why is the US doing the same thing with Ukraine but at a much greater level ? What good could come out of the heavy weights of the world fighting ? It doesnt matter who is the bigger dog. The ones who will suffer are us, the collateral damage, your family, my family and whoever else does not deserve it.

I don't care about politics, but maybe its good that Obama is a softy, 'cause Putin is crazy and careless enough to start the whole thing. Just like Stalin who didn;t give a shiet how many millions of his own russians died in WW2. If you would have an american Putin leading the US, we would now be swimming in nuclear radiation and cockroachers would become the dominant race on our planet.

War does not benefit anyone. Whoever is for war is an idiot. This is not about protecting the US, this is, again, getting involved in other peoples business far far away from home but now it has the potential of literally hitting hard back home. 23 americans died on that plane ? How about we send a million more troops to die in war. Maybe even get nuked in the process That's a great solution obviously you thought it through very well.

[Rwy]

Well, there are risks involved in flying. Plus, I doubt they were trying to kill Americans. What I think most likely happened was they accidently shot down the wrong plane. The "Ukrainian government" and the "separatists" both try to fly their aircraft near commercial aircraft as a way of shielding their planes.

Some logic finally lol


You wouldnt catch me within a 100 miles of any of these areas.

[dk94]

You do know that McCain was a POW

Yes i do, he endured some of the most violent treatment imaginable, for years and years. I have the utmost respect for mccain as a soldier, but very little as a politician.

[Rwy]

You love the Jewish nation is killing people who had their land stolen and are using 70 year old guns and 50 year old missles are getting wiped out?

You have a choice in your vote...you get the guy who votes for big business or the guy that votes for big business..now try to make a difference. Americans are not involved in the system anymore. The system owns them.

Agreed. Our votes mean shit now. A step in the right direction is get rid of lobbying.

[Rwy]

So as for my point of view....

If an airplane is off course and not responding and going into sensitive territory do we shoot it down...or...let it crash into the WTCs. We know how the latter works out.

Who cares if there were 23 Americans on board. A true American...in the words of Hulk Hogan...fights for the rights of every man.

The Russians have not forgotten the Cold War. Americans have. Putin has balls. Obama is nuettered. Until America closes its boarders it has no right to be out in anyones back yard playing McGruff the Crime Dog. To Americans...Boarders is not a book store.....

The fact that America depends on its "leaders" is just a sign the fire and fight has left the dog. Back int he day if the leaders did not obey the people they would cover them in tar and feather them. Now people too happy with free money.

Sometimes I think this was planned.

[David LoPan]

You love the Jewish nation is killing people who had their land stolen and are using 70 year old guns and 50 year old missles are getting wiped out?

You have a choice in your vote...you get the guy who votes for big business or the guy that votes for big business..now try to make a difference. Americans are not involved in the system anymore. The system owns them.

100% for the Jewish nation. I think history pretty much shows they did not steal any land. It was stolen from them. Then again that part of the world has been taking by one power to the next for hundred of years. They are a sovereign nation. I dont care if people use muskets to shoot at them and throw missiles. Those people are called terrorist. It would be pretty much the same if the native american tribes attacked the US due to the US government taking over their land.

I love the fact that they do not put up with the BS and if you attack and hide in a house or a place of worship they warn them and then blow up that place, unlike the US. You attack where the enemy is. They want to live in peace and its the other people in that region that want to kill all of them.

On the other matter, I vote for the guy that is for smaller government, pro small business, lower taxes and less regulations. And for a STRONG defense. You command respect from a place of power not a weak military with restrictions on who they can engage. Putin knows he has the strongest military in the world and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. The US used to be the strongest but due to the crying liberals and people with self interests the US has become weak. The US needs leadership but all we get in lawyers who only care about power and making themselves rich.

[Shol'va]

It's a shame we sold out to Russia years ago. You see Pres Reagan wanted to go ahead with SDI otherwise known as Star Wars and that scared the hell out of the Russians. not too sure who canned this great plan but what research we had done with SDI was given over to the Israelis and they created the Iron dome which is virtually impenetrable. so had we gone ahead with SDI think how safe our country and all NATO countries could have been by now. But if memory serves it was Bill Clinton who agreed to shelve SDI in return the Russian deactivated hundreds of the old long range nuclear bombs that of course they had already planned to mothball in the first place. It was a win lose for us they won we lost. but what else is new......Now several years later Russia or it's allies have shot down a passenger plane and to make matters worse it was carrying over a hundred scientists and doctors all keenly working on new cures for Aids. this cure now has been set back for decades due to the blatant disregard for human life. Russia should pay and pay dearly as those same doctors would have saved thousands of lives of the Russians as well with their cures and discoveries. sure we cannot gain by going to war with Russia but there are other ways to make them pay and pay dearly. one is to freeze all their assets outside their borders and isolate the sons a bitches. Put a hurt on them financially that they wont forget. but all of western Europe must go along with this and unfortunately they get their oil from Russian held territories. So unless America is willing to overlook a rare mosquito or housefly that may or may not become extinct by drilling and fracking for oil in the states and make up for what Russia was supplying to Europe with our oil, then all will be lost and Russia gets away with murder yet again. And it has been verified there were American citizens on board that plane. so now they have murdered Americans as well. It's time like these you want to unleash every nuclear bomb we have and blow them all to kingdom come. but cooler heads prevail....now on the Israeli war with Hamas I'm so proud of our President to make an emergency flight over to Israel to personallt tell the Israelis that we Americans stand side by side supporting them in the war against the evil Hamas who have sent over 1300 rockets into Israel Cities after murdering 3 Israel children. After all there is no way america would stand by or any other country for that matter and let some terrorist group lob 1300 rockets into our major cities without us hitting back with everything we have in our arsenal. So I am indeed proud of Mr Obama for going over there to convey our feelings of support. No wait he went to a bunch of fund raisers in New York city Instead. never mind. you see fund raising is so much more important than Amercians being murdered By Russia or Our Allies being bombed in their own country. wow WTF is wrong with this President?

[Rusty11]

^I rarely read posts this long...lol. But Shol'va, this was a hell of a great post and I'm glad I did. I only read a few minutes ago about these researchers. All of these deaths are equally tragic, but the loss of these researchers/scientists is definitely a huge blow. So f'ng senseless. No. I don't want war. I do hope the EU and the world now understands the barbaric nature of Putin. I want every nation dealing with Russia to implement TOUGH sanctions on that country. So fierce, that maybe he'll sit down and come to whatever senses he has left. We'll see...

[BG]

You do know that Hamas fired over 1500 missiles into Israel this week alone?

You love the Jewish nation is killing people who had their land stolen and are using 70 year old guns and 50 year old missles are getting wiped out?

You have a choice in your vote...you get the guy who votes for big business or the guy that votes for big business..now try to make a difference. Americans are not involved in the system anymore. The system owns them.

[GirlyGymRat]

http://www.therefinersfire.org/ishmael_and_isaac.htm

[Darkness]

Israeli Palestine conflict is a can of worms we dont need to open in a thread about a massacre like this. Prayers to the families of those involved.

[JimmySidewalk]

You cannot sanction Russia economically. All of Europe depends on Russia's natural resources. Its actually Europe who needs Russia, not the other way around. Plus, they are self-sufficient in every way. They have every type of resource a country would ever need, even more actually. You have to understand, they don't use made in China or made in the US or made anywhere else, they use made in Russia. Their market is self sustained.

[BG]

Nice !

Ishmael and Isaac

But YHWH loved Hagar and her son, and had mercy upon them. He promised Hagar that her son would beget twelve princes who would become a great nation. Ishmael then went to live in the wilderness region of Hejaz in what became known as the Arabian Peninsula. He indeed had twelve patriarchal sons who became associated with the peoples known as Midianites, Edomites, Egyptians and Assyrians. The Bible and Islamic tradition both agree that Ishmael became the leader of all the great desert peoples of the Middle East.

This jealousy and resentment between Sarah and Hagar and their sons Isaac and Ishmael created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.

Muslims believe the Jews changed and distorted the Bible in order to establish themselves as the heirs of Abraham's Covenant blessings. However, they fail to explain how the New Testament clearly teaches that the Covenant was made with Isaac and his descendants.

According to Islamic tradition, Abraham had eight sons rather than two who were reared in Mecca, not Hebron. They insist it was Ishmael, not Isaac, whom Abraham was about to sacrifice on Mount Moriah when an angel stopped him. According to the Koran, the Abrahamic covenant, with its promises - including the title deed to the land of Israel - was passed down to the Arabs through Ishmael, rather than to the Jews through Isaac.

If one believes that the Old and New Testaments were written under the inspiration of the Spirit of YHWH, then there is no question that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews. God's words to Abraham in Genesis are some 2,500 years older than the creation of Islam (whose "prophet" Mohammed was a murdering, thieving pedophile who "married" a seven year old child - but that's another story).

The bottom line is, YHWH fulfilled His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. And He is about to use the consequential warfare between the two brothers in order to bring about His "end time" scenario....

[Darkness]

You cannot sanction Russia economically. All of Europe depends on Russia's natural resources. Its actually Europe who needs Russia, not the other way around. Plus, they are self-sufficient in every way. They have every type of resource a country would ever need, even more actually. You have to understand, they don't use made in China or made in the US or made anywhere else, they use made in Russia. Their market is self sustained.

Not true on all accounts. While it was like that during Soviet Union, it isnt so right now. They import A LOT of stuff, thats the reason countries like Germany dont want to lose the Russian market. Its so big and plush that they are importing anything from everywhere. I have a cousin selling olive oil and wine from Portugal and Spain, and Cashew nuts from Guinea-Bissau into Russia. His ex partner is probably on of the biggest in all sorts of meats from Argentina.

The only thing they can say they're self sufficient is energy (for now) but they cant close up to the world. WHY would Puttin take over Crimea.... because its has the best and most prolific Ports for economic trade into Russia.

Much more to this than the eye can see.

[Flagg]

The dead include 154 Dutch, 38 Malaysian, 27 Australian, 23 Americans, 11 Indonesian, 6 UK, 4 French, 4 German, 4 Belgian, 3 Philippines, One Canadian.

Also some of you should watch this:

Some of you are completely missing the point. 300 hundred innocent people were killed, the West will beat their chest and ultimately do nothing and the families of those people will never be given justice. That makes me so angry!

Anyways it's looking like Russian trained Ukranian militia shot it down thinking it was a Ukranian military craft.

It doesn't even matter if this was an accident, nothing will be done about this. The UN is supposed to exist to do stuff about this and wont. You guys do realise that the area has been closed off and the bodies have been taken to different sites and morgues. The absolute most that will happen is Russia will be forced out of Ukraine.

Putin is a dangerous and ruthless individual anyway you cut it. All this because the people of the Ukraine essentially wanted to be part of the EU instead of Russia.

EDIT: Also there were 100 medical personal with advanced knowledge of AIDS research. This shot down plane is a massive, massive loss in so many ways.

[jimmyinkedup]

EDIT: Also there were 100 medical personal with advanced knowledge of AIDS research. This shot down plane is a massive, massive loss in so many ways.

I just read about this. Apparently a few of them were on the cutting edge and making what has been considered the best progress to date regarding the treatment and potential cure for aids. No one life is worth more than another but you are so right the impact of these deaths is a great blow that has cost the world in many far reaching ways. Who knows what any one of the people on that plane might have become or might have done in their lifetime. Apparently some already were doing great things, and for no good reason they are all gone.
I have a hard time expressing my thoughts on such things but what frustrates me the most is the politicians here in the US will use this as nothing more than to attack the other party for what was or wasnt done. The other party will tout what has been done, and all have no regard for the reality of the situation and doing the right thing. What is the right thing, I dont know, but I do know its not just the US that is corrupt ans pussified, it is the entire UN. One big fvcking joke.
When will it be "enough" here in the US. I honestly think we have legislated ourselves in a position that things may never be able to be made right.

[RaginCajun]

Flagg, I totally agree with the massive loss in so many ways, sucks on every level.