Question about adding dbol to beginning of cutting cycle

[taylormedic]

Thanks for the advice on the dbol. I like Winny but will keep it out of this cycle.

I never knew about TB500, thanks for the advice! Where do you inject? Into the subacromial space or AC joint? I know how to do it, used to be a paramedic, just don't know the best site. I'm thinking subacromial.

I've done this cycle before and it worked well, but you are probably right about cutting out some of the gear here. I'm not necessarily afraid of the gear itself, I can handle it, but I'd like to hear what the sides are on that much at my age, just so I can learn and keep from doing any damage. Anyway, after your advice, this is what I'm thinking now:

sust - 500 mg/week weeks 1-16
test p - 100 mg/EOD weeks 1-4
tren e - 400 mg/week weeks 1-12
adex - 0.5 mg/MWF -weeks 1-16
hcg - 500 I.U. EOD weeks 10-16 and PCT
clenbuterol - 20-40 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off (clen is harsh for me and can't go to work shaking like a leaf)
PCT:nolva - 40 mg ED weeks 16-18
nolva - 20 mg ED weeks 18-20

I gotcha with the diet question. My TDEE is ~2900 cal/day working out 5x/week; I am aiming for ~2300 cal/day. Is that too much of a drop or on track?

I am consuming about 2700-2800 cals/day now working out 4 days/week, 350 grams protein, and I'm going to be on a keto diet, so don't do a split on that. I've been eating well for two years; meaning no alcohol, sugar, no fast food, all food cooked at home.

I follow Palumbo diet when on a cutting cycle, and it ends up being pretty easy once my body gets into the ketosis. I've heard from a lot of people that it's not a good diet due to ketogenesis, but it works really well for me.

Meal 1:
6 whole eggs

Meal 2:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

Meal 3:
8 - 12 oz chicken with 1/2-cup nuts

Meal 4:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

Meal 5:
8 oz salmon, tuna or beef with a green salad (a small amount of olive oil and rice vinegar which I love)

Meal 6:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

OFF DAY: Essentially the same except the first meal is oatmeal, grits or eggs and what bread, last two meals are 12-16 oz beef grilled and pasta (spaghetti, bowtie pasta with broccoli, carrots, oil and vinegar, etc.)

I'll post a more detailed nutrition and diet plan in nutrition section, just wanted a basic post here for you all to see.

Thanks a LOT for the advice Roman. Exactly why I came here!

---TM

[Times Roman]

Thanks for the advice on the dbol. I like Winny but will keep it out of this cycle.

I never knew about TB500, thanks for the advice! Where do you inject? - subQ underneath a fold of skin in the stomach area Into the subacromial space or AC joint? I know how to do it, used to be a paramedic, just don't know the best site. I'm thinking subacromial.

I've done this cycle before and it worked well, but you are probably right about cutting out some of the gear here. I'm not necessarily afraid of the gear itself, I can handle it, but I'd like to hear what the sides are on that much at my age, - as you grow older, you really should begin to taper down all the gear. Become cognizant of your mortality and learn to avoid injury, which is common after 40+ when tendons and ligaments begin to lose strength. just so I can learn and keep from doing any damage. Anyway, after your advice, this is what I'm thinking now:

sust - 500 mg/week weeks 1-16
test p - 100 mg/EOD weeks 1-4
tren e - 400 mg/week weeks 1-12
adex - 0.5 mg/MWF -weeks 1-16
hcg - 500 I.U. EOD weeks 10-16 and PCT
clenbuterol - 20-40 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off (clen is harsh for me and can't go to work shaking like a leaf)
PCT:nolva - 40 mg ED weeks 16-18
nolva - 20 mg ED weeks 18-20

I gotcha with the diet question. My TDEE is ~2900 cal/day working out 5x/week; I am aiming for ~2300 cal/day. Is that too much of a drop or on track? - 600 cals below TDEE is at the moderately high end of reasonable, so no problem.

I am consuming about 2700-2800 cals/day now working out 4 days/week, 350 grams protein, - protein looks good and I'm going to be on a keto diet, so don't do a split on that. I've been eating well for two years; meaning no alcohol, sugar, no fast food, all food cooked at home.

I follow Palumbo diet when on a cutting cycle, and it ends up being pretty easy once my body gets into the ketosis. I've heard from a lot of people that it's not a good diet due to ketogenesis, but it works really well for me. - I get too grumpy due to lack of carbs when I lift. If you can handle it emotionally, then I'd say go for it. Do you see the usual dip in intensity from it while in the gym?

Meal 1:
6 whole eggs

Meal 2:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

Meal 3:
8 - 12 oz chicken with 1/2-cup nuts

Meal 4:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

Meal 5:
8 oz salmon, tuna or beef with a green salad (a small amount of olive oil and rice vinegar which I love)

Meal 6:
Shake: 60g Whey Protein

OFF DAY: Essentially the same except the first meal is oatmeal, grits or eggs and what bread, last two meals are 12-16 oz beef grilled and pasta (spaghetti, bowtie pasta with broccoli, carrots, oil and vinegar, etc.)

I'll post a more detailed nutrition and diet plan in nutrition section, just wanted a basic post here for you all to see.

Thanks a LOT for the advice Roman. Exactly why I came here!

---TM

over 50% of your protein intake is from whey protein powder. over the long haul, this seems excessive. True, you will be getting the protein aspect from doing so, but you will also be losing out on all the other nutritive values you would ordinarily get if instead you were to eat whole foods.

Serious lack of produce. On your off day, you reference veggies, but nothing during the rest of the week, except a green garden salad which is nutritionally poor in most cases (lettuce based, right?)

I don't see much fiber going on. True, nuts have a small amount. But that's it besides a small green salad!

A couple of things you can do to immediately improve your nutrition profile

get off the whey protein. you are using that as your main staple for a source of protein. A better way would be liquid egg whites. Once 16 fluid oz box from Costco has about 50 grams of protein. No fat. No cholesterol. No carbs. You can use this as the liquid in any blender drink you make. For example, my post workout shake was 24ounces of whole apples (yes, core and all, but I'm not hardcore, so I took the stem off) and a 16oz box of liquid egg whites. Prior to taking, about a 5 gram scoop of psyllium husk fiber. This absorbs moisture and expands to 10x it's volume, improving your output so that it isn't runny.

This is the macro profile of what I just described:


Other times, I'll put in the blender a Costco 12.5oz can of chicken breast. Almost zero fat and zero carbs. This too comes to about 50 grams of protein. And it's whole food. Not a powdered milk by product.

Here is the macro profile of that. notice no carbs, and only a hint of fat


Both the chicken and the liquid egg whites comes from Costco. The cost of protein from the liquid egg whites comes to about 3 cents per gram, and the chicken comes to something like 4 cents per gram of protein.

So, in my humble opinion, you are excessively relying on whey protein powder when there are other better whole food options available
and, you need to eat more solid green veggies and other brightly colored veggies. Don't bother with the canned corn. And the garden salads are a thing where you feel good by eating them because you think they are really nutritious for you, but you are mostly fooling yourself. Take that same volume, and eat kale or spinach instead.

Make sense?

---Roman

[taylormedic]

over 50% of your protein intake is from whey protein powder. over the long haul, this seems excessive. True, you will be getting the protein aspect from doing so, but you will also be losing out on all the other nutritive values you would ordinarily get if instead you were to eat whole foods. Gotcha Roman, makes sense man. I'll try other sources of protein. Whey just seems easy, but true that it isn't as nutritive, and at 40, everything bad gets amplified, so better to go the nutritive route anyway. I'll go for it and let you know if I feel better as a result.

Serious lack of produce. On your off day, you reference veggies, but nothing during the rest of the week, except a green garden salad which is nutritionally poor in most cases (lettuce based, right?)

I don't see much fiber going on. True, nuts have a small amount. But that's it besides a small green salad! OK, I see your point again; this diet has worked well in the past, but I haven't gone on a keto diet since turning 40, so I'll modify it some as long as I don't consume too many carbs. They're definitely cutting killers after 40...

A couple of things you can do to immediately improve your nutrition profile

get off the whey protein. you are using that as your main staple for a source of protein. A better way would be liquid egg whites. Once 16 fluid oz box from Costco has about 50 grams of protein. No fat. No cholesterol. No carbs. You can use this as the liquid in any blender drink you make. For example, my post workout shake was 24ounces of whole apples (yes, core and all, but I'm not hardcore, so I took the stem off) and a 16oz box of liquid egg whites. Prior to taking, about a 5 gram scoop of psyllium husk fiber. This absorbs moisture and expands to 10x it's volume, improving your output so that it isn't runny. Gotcha, I'll give it shot, thanks Roman!


This is the macro profile of what I just described:


Other times, I'll put in the blender a Costco 12.5oz can of chicken breast. Almost zero fat and zero carbs. This too comes to about 50 grams of protein. And it's whole food. Not a powdered milk by product.

Here is the macro profile of that. notice no carbs, and only a hint of fat


Great spreadsheet, any chance you'd be willing to share? :-)

Both the chicken and the liquid egg whites comes from Costco. The cost of protein from the liquid egg whites comes to about 3 cents per gram, and the chicken comes to something like 4 cents per gram of protein.

So, in my humble opinion, you are excessively relying on whey protein powder when there are other better whole food options available
and, you need to eat more solid green veggies and other brightly colored veggies. Don't bother with the canned corn. And the garden salads are a thing where you feel good by eating them because you think they are really nutritious for you, but you are mostly fooling yourself. Take that same volume, and eat kale or spinach instead.

Make sense? Yep, makes a lot of sense. I'll incorporate these ideas.

---Roman

Gotcha on the gear as one gets older and loses tendon and ligament strength; good buddy of mine keeps tearing muscles off the bone with crazy heavy lifts. So just tone it down from what I'm used to, correct?

I definitely see a dip in intensity at the gym, but work harder to fight through it. Some days are great and some just suck, but that's life after 40 for anyone out there paying attention. Yeah, the lifts aren't as intense sometimes, but there are days when I have an amazing workout and it feels awesome, so I look to those days every day.

I do sleep on my side testluva, try not to, but like Roman, I'll get poked if sleep on my back, actually just kicked out to one of the guest bedrooms if I'm snoring at night.

Thanks again to Roman and everyone else!!