I agree with you Cape some what, I have gotten to fertil ground for sure, not deep but have scratched the service I worked really hard 7 days 7 months will get you results. I may not look like you but don't let the smooth taste fool you. I'm not a slouch I look very well for the 7 months I've worked out plus I was always muscular anyway. I do understand what you and others are saying because I don't want to tear a tendon or ligament for sure.