My TRT journey has begun.

[Unc15smh]

After reading this thread and sticky notes, I may back off or eliminate the arimidex. I'm already feeling joint ando muscle ache.

I seem to have 1 to 2 days a week on the week of injections where I wake up around 4am and feel jittery. Is that normal? Does it fade?

[krugerr]

After reading this thread and sticky notes, I may back off or eliminate the arimidex. I'm already feeling joint ando muscle ache.

I seem to have 1 to 2 days a week on the week of injections where I wake up around 4am and feel jittery. Is that normal? Does it fade?

I suggest you start your own thread buddy. Then we can focus on your questions without derailing the OPs thread.

[Unc15smh]

I suggest you start your own thread buddy. Then we can focus on your questions without derailing the OPs thread.

My bad... just thought the OP might have feedback if he was experiencing the same things.

[MTheoryFreak]

After reading this thread and sticky notes, I may back off or eliminate the arimidex. I'm already feeling joint ando muscle ache.

I seem to have 1 to 2 days a week on the week of injections where I wake up around 4am and feel jittery. Is that normal? Does it fade?

I am not on an AI at this time. When I get my 3 month labs I will know where I am at. I have joint and muscle aches all the time in my elbows and shoulders. Unrelated to TRT at all though.

[Unc15smh]

I am not on an AI at this time. When I get my 3 month labs I will know where I am at. I have joint and muscle aches all the time in my elbows and shoulders. Unrelated to TRT at all though.

Cool...nice to have someone posting their experiences at the same basic time as I am experiencing them. I believe you said your doctor suggested hcg, but did he say anything about dhea or preglanone (sp?) Supplimentation?

[MTheoryFreak]

Cool...nice to have someone posting their experiences at the same basic time as I am experiencing them. I believe you said your doctor suggested hcg, but did he say anything about dhea or preglanone (sp?) Supplimentation?

He offered HCG. He said it was my choice. He said he has been on TRT for years and he doesn't use it. He didn't seem concerned with DHEA or Preglanone.

I haven't researched DHEA. So I don't have an opinion on that. I need to look into it I guess. As far as Preglanone, I am undecided if I want to take it as a supplement. I have really done nothing but Google it and read a few articles. I just don't want to start throwing a lot of new stuff in the mix all at once. As I progress, and learn how much body is reacting to test, I may slowly start adding some things as I go. But, I will add them slowly and one at a time so I can better evaluate how they work, as how they make me feel and what not.

[MTheoryFreak]

Week 6.

This week I have felt really good. My strength on all my lifts are continuing to go up and my cardio is even better when I run and when I crossfit. I am starting to get erections when I wake up and sometimes as I start to fall asleep. My libido seems slightly higher as well. Periodically, through the day my ring is tight on my finger but goes away when I drink a lot of water. I have noticed that my erections are not as super hard as they used to be. Still hard but not as a rock. I am wondering if my e2 is slightly elevated? Seems possible. I am not feeling moody and I haven't noticed nipple soreness or itchiness that some describe. All in all a pretty good week except that I injured my shoulder again. I injured it in 2008 and every so often I do something stupid to make it flare up. I was doing upper push a few days ago and I was feeling super strong. I started doing lateral raises and went up to 30 pounds, which is really heavy for me. The next day my shoulder was very sore with abduction. Not sore in an overhead press. Then, I went to crossfit and was practicing muscle ups. I got on top of the bar and felt my right shoulder go to shit. Now I am very sore around my ac joint, in my supraspinatous and the attachment at the posterior proximal humerus. Very stupid move. I seem to always get reminded that I am 40 and have a bad shoulder and some things I just should not do. So I have decided to put muscle ups on the shelf and let them collect dust. I also have decided to just use light weight, say 10s and 15s, maybe 20s for my lateral raises and to also start doing them with external rotation and just lean forward a bit to get my lateral head in a better position. I have also scheduled an appointment with an ortho doctor Monday to evaluate my shoulder. I am gonna see about getting an MRI. I would love to know if I just have impingement issues or if I have actually torn something. Knowledge is power.

[kelkel]

I just don't want to start throwing a lot of new stuff in the mix all at once. As I progress, and learn how much body is reacting to test, I may slowly start adding some things as I go. But, I will add them slowly and one at a time so I can better evaluate how they work, as how they make me feel and what not.

Exactly how it should be done!

[Youthful55guy]

Never judge on total T Sil, always use free T as your gauge.

I Couldn't agree with this more! There's a little known interaction between SHBG and Total T that most people (including many docs) are unaware. It's very important to know your SHBG levels and your Free T (or bioavailable T) to interpret results and make course corrections. You should always base decisions on Free T and never Total T.

SHBG serves the purpose of binding to T and protecting it from liver metabolism. So, the higher your SHBG, the higher will be your Total T with a given dose of TRT. That does not mean you will feel better with that higher level of Total T because SHBG also prevents the T from crossing the blood-brain barrier where T is needed to "feel good".

Here are some real world examples of T/SHBG/Free T labs. I've got many labs results from many different lab over the past 5 years, but I'm only pulling data from a single lab (Lab Corp) so that there are no lab to lab differences to confound the data.

Injection dose = 0.2 mL of a compounded blended 180/20 mg/mL T-cyp/T-prop injected every 3 days (E3D).

Total T--Free T--SHBG--Winstrol
1158-------15-------73------None
831---------27------20------15 mg/day
825---------22------21-------12 mg/day
809---------17------23-------12 mg/day
633---------21------27-------10 mg/day

Ranges: TT 348-1197 ng/dL, FT 7.2-24 pg/mL, SHBG 19.3-76.4 nmol/L

Bottom line is that it's clear that the highest Total T level (from the same dose of T) resulted from the lab where my SHBG was the highest, but that also resulted in the lowest Free T measurement. Then I started manipulating SHBG with Winstrol but maintained the same injection dose of T and saw my Total T drop, but my Free T increase.

[hammerheart]

5mg /die of winstrol are enough for me to crush SHBG below 10, which is more than I wanted.

[Youthful55guy]

5mg /die of winstrol are enough for me to crush SHBG below 10, which is more than I wanted.

Very interesting. Just reiterates the importance of follow up tests every time you make a change in protocol and not just to follow other guys protocols blindly. I have the same difficulty with dosing anastrozole for E2 control. Very small amounts of it, amounts that others post successfully here, will crush my E2 to undetectable ranges.

TESTING, TESTING TESTING. So important!

[hammerheart]

TESTING, TESTING TESTING. So important!

Indeed it is. Thanks for reminding.

[MTheoryFreak]

I Couldn't agree with this more! There's a little known interaction between SHBG and Total T that most people (including many docs) are unaware. It's very important to know your SHBG levels and your Free T (or bioavailable T) to interpret results and make course corrections. You should always base decisions on Free T and never Total T.

SHBG serves the purpose of binding to T and protecting it from liver metabolism. So, the higher your SHBG, the higher will be your Total T with a given dose of TRT. That does not mean you will feel better with that higher level of Total T because SHBG also prevents the T from crossing the blood-brain barrier where T is needed to "feel good".

Here are some real world examples of T/SHBG/Free T labs. I've got many labs results from many different lab over the past 5 years, but I'm only pulling data from a single lab (Lab Corp) so that there are no lab to lab differences to confound the data.

Injection dose = 0.2 mL of a compounded blended 180/20 mg/mL T-cyp/T-prop injected every 3 days (E3D).

Total T--Free T--SHBG--Winstrol
1158-------15-------73------None
831---------27------20------15 mg/day
825---------22------21-------12 mg/day
809---------17------23-------12 mg/day
633---------21------27-------10 mg/day

Ranges: TT 348-1197 ng/dL, FT 7.2-24 pg/mL, SHBG 19.3-76.4 nmol/L

Bottom line is that it's clear that the highest Total T level (from the same dose of T) resulted from the lab where my SHBG was the highest, but that also resulted in the lowest Free T measurement. Then I started manipulating SHBG with Winstrol but maintained the same injection dose of T and saw my Total T drop, but my Free T increase.

My lab results before I started TRT.

SHBG 20 (10 - 50)
Total 211 (250 - 1100)
Free 53.8 (35 - 155)
FSH 3.5 (1.6 - 8.0)
LH 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
TSH 2.38 (0.4 - 4.5)
Lipid 190 (125 - 200)
HDL 60 (> or = 40)
LDL 119 (<130)
Tris 57 (<150)
AST 26 (10 - 40)
ALT 29 (9 - 46)
HCT 46.8 (35 - 60)
PSA 0.9 (< or = 4.0)

I never posted these before. Figured I would throw them up here. This is not everything, but what I considered to be relevant. Everything else was within range.

[kelkel]

How has your psa remained?

[MTheoryFreak]

How has your psa remained?

I am 6 week into my TRT. I go back for 3 month labs. So I will not know until then.

[MTheoryFreak]

End of week 7. I really don't have much to say this week. I feel great. Everything seems to be leveling out. My mood is very stable, my workouts are great. I have been eating a little more calories than I have been because I have went out of town the past few weeks and I have indulged in life little pleasures. In the past 3 weeks I have gained 10 pounds. My abs are still visible but I feel I am holding some water. It seems that even at my small TRT dose of 100 a week, I have to watch my sodium intake and my simple carbs. My body really holds water more than it has in the past. I guess that just comes with the Test. I am going on vacation in 5 weeks and plan on getting very strict until then. Just gonna try and clean up a little fat. My shoulder injury is a lot better. I am going for an MRI tomorrow. My ortho thinks I have a slap tear. I really have no desire to go through surgery to fix it. So I will just have to avoid doing stupid things to reinjure it. I have been taking ibuprofen and tramadol this week to help with the pain and inflammation. I really wish I could take ibuprofen all the time. It really makes everything feel great, except for my stomach.

[MTheoryFreak]

Just a quick progress picture. 8 weeks into my TRT journey.

[MTheoryFreak]

Haven't posted in a while. I got my 3 month labs back. Total test was 545. Free test was above range. I can't remember the exact number off hand. My estrogen is elevated. I am not on arimidex right now. My hematocrit went from 46 to 48. My psa went from like .4 to .8. Everything else was satisfactory. I am still loving TRT. Even at my low 100 per week. I keep making gains slowly in the gym. My diet is pretty darn good. My only complaint is about 2 weeks ago I broke out with some acne on my chest and back. Which sucks. Been doing lots of research on how to control it. Using over the counter stuff right now. Seems to be helping some. I have an appointment in 3 weeks with a dermatologist. Maybe they can help. Wondering if my rise in estrogen is causing the acne. It seems I just broke out with a bunch but haven't added anymore since the first outbreak. Hoping to figure out how to manage it. I am waiting to hear back from my TRT doc. See what he says about my labs. Not sure if I need an increase in dose. 545 is my number right before I pinned. Free test is above average and this seems to be what really matters. More is not always better. I feel I need to take arimidex. Maybe. 25 2 times a week? Here is a progress pic. Looking pretty good except the damned acne.

[kelkel]

Look great MTF! Be happy that you're doing great on 100 per week. It's just a number, more isn't better for TRT. Main thing is your free T which is above range. Exactly what you want so don't worry about total T at all. Also remember that a day or so after your pin your TT and FT may be twice your numbers at trough level. Re your psa many times when guys initiate TRT there's a spike in psa which usually settles down over time. Regardless, .4 or .8 are both great levels.

When it comes to acne, I believe Austinite has a thread on it in the Educational Articles Database at the top of the AAS Q & A. Maybe it would help you?

Regarding your estrogen, you may need a small amount of adex to control it. Splitting your T dose to 50 x 2 would help you here as well. Always monitor your RBC's as well and give blood if/when necessary.

[MTheoryFreak]

Look great MTF! Be happy that you're doing great on 100 per week. It's just a number, more isn't better for TRT. Main thing is your free T which is above range. Exactly what you want so don't worry about total T at all. Also remember that a day or so after your pin your TT and FT may be twice your numbers at trough level. Re your psa many times when guys initiate TRT there's a spike in psa which usually settles down over time. Regardless, .4 or .8 are both great levels.

When it comes to acne, I believe Austinite has a thread on it in the Educational Articles Database at the top of the AAS Q & A. Maybe it would help you?

Regarding your estrogen, you may need a small amount of adex to control it. Splitting your T dose to 50 x 2 would help you here as well. Always monitor your RBC's as well and give blood if/when necessary.

Saw the Dr today. He wanted me to start with .5 adex 2 times a week. This seems high to me. I figured .25 2 times a week would be good with my low dose. Not sure what I should do. I don't want to bottom it out. I have been reading the thread on acne. Confident I can control it. He was happy with my test so it will stay at 100 a week. I have been thinking of splitting my dose. TRT has definitely helped me out. But nothing works without a good plan in the gym andvthe kitchen. I have both of those really spot on. What are your thoughts on my adex dose?

[kelkel]

What are your thoughts on my adex dose?

Well, you never gave an E2 level and range. That said, I can't possibly imagine you needing more than .25 x 2. Fill your scripts on time and stock up on the rest. Always best to be over-written! As stated, splitting the dose can help with E2 conversion but your T numbers are quite good as is for a once per week protocol.

[Quester]

I've noticed a slight increase in acne and a major increase in oily skin since starting TRT in Feb. I went to the Derm and the Np. suggested a wash cloth like lufa thing and dove soap for my body (its 3 ft by 8in and almost see-through- I think I got it at target or Wmart), and a Conair vibrating (not spinning) + Cetaphil Daily Facial Cleanser (2xday) for my face. That's kept it under control.
You've made some good progress, please stay out of our competitions, lol.

[MTheoryFreak]

Well, you never gave an E2 level and range. That said, I can't possibly imagine you needing more than .25 x 2. Fill your scripts on time and stock up on the rest. Always best to be over-written! As stated, splitting the dose can help with E2 conversion but your T numbers are quite good as is for a once per week protocol.

I looked at my labs. Unfortunately, he only ran a standard e2 panel. My e2 was 51. Normal needs to be below 39. So, I think I will start with .25 two times a week. I would rather start low and raise if needed. I don't go back to him for 6 months. In 6 weeks or so i may get a sensitive e2 panel myself to check. I have read about a lot of ppl going how they feel and their morning wood. I guess this in conjunction with periodic labs will help me dial it in.

[MTheoryFreak]

I've noticed a slight increase in acne and a major increase in oily skin since starting TRT in Feb. I went to the Derm and the Np. suggested a wash cloth like lufa thing and dove soap for my body (its 3 ft by 8in and almost see-through- I think I got it at target or Wmart), and a Conair vibrating (not spinning) + Cetaphil Daily Facial Cleanser (2xday) for my face. That's kept it under control.
You've made some good progress, please stay out of our competitions, lol.

I will see what the dermatologist recommends. Right now I am washing with an acne wash daily and using an acne cream. I am wiping my body down with witch hazel and alcohol daily and taking baths with Epsom salt and a small amount of bleach. I also tan occasionally. I just don't like to tan all the time. Hopefully, this regimen will keep it in check.

[kelkel]

I looked at my labs. Unfortunately, he only ran a standard e2 panel. My e2 was 51. Normal needs to be below 39. So, I think I will start with .25 two times a week. I would rather start low and raise if needed. I don't go back to him for 6 months. In 6 weeks or so i may get a sensitive e2 panel myself to check. I have read about a lot of ppl going how they feel and their morning wood. I guess this in conjunction with periodic labs will help me dial it in.

Really not that high. Also remember that standard estradiol results can be quite innacurate. It may be prudent to get your E2 Sens Assay now, see exactly where you are and then decide. The private sites are pretty cheap, around $40 if I recall correctly. Going how you feel may not be that effective with E2 and morning wood is not a good indicator.

[geezuschrist]

Thanks for the update, I've been following your story. Keep it up!

[MTheoryFreak]

Really not that high. Also remember that standard estradiol results can be quite innacurate. It may be prudent to get your E2 Sens Assay now, see exactly where you are and then decide. The private sites are pretty cheap, around $40 if I recall correctly. Going how you feel may not be that effective with E2 and morning wood is not a good indicator.

Thanks man. I will look into getting private labs soon.

[MTheoryFreak]

It has been a while since my last update. Since my last entry, I started a blast with 500 per week Cypionate and .75 adex per week. I am now starting week 6. I started at 184 lbs and am now at 200 lbs. My abs are becoming less visable and my abdomen is more distended due to the excess food. I am eating at or more than 3k calories per day. My strength has went up a bit. Gym sessions are great. I am a bit more lethargic when not training but not bad. My first 2 weeks I guess I had test flu. I felt very bad, but that cleared up in week 3. I can't run for cardio anymore. When I try my anterior lower legs get so pumped it feels as if they might explode. So I use the stair climber or rower. I am wondering how much more weight I may gain. I read that it doesn't really kick in real well until about where I am now. I have lots of people commenting on my increased in size. I just tell them I am bulking and eating a lot of food. Which isn't a lie. Lol. I remember Kel saying one should give TRT a year before blasting but I couldn't resist so go easy on me. Lol. I would just like to say that I am glad to have joined this forum. I learn so much and most of you all seem to be great guys. I will post a pic at the end of my blast. Hopefully, I will have made great improvements. I plan to cut until October for a beach trip when my blast ends. Peace out for now guys

[MTheoryFreak]

....

[MTheoryFreak]

Checking in. 10 weeks into my blast of Test C. 2x 250 per week. I was around 180 or so when I started. I went up to 212 but I was bloated and holding a lot of water. I was eating over 3k calories a day. It was just way to much for me. I have dropped down to 2500 or maybe a bit more on some days. Now I am hovering around 200. I feel much better and look a ton better. Strength is way up. Pulled 465 deadlift and 340x5 squat the other day. That is a huge improvement for me. I have had to stop benching due to my torn rotators in my right shoulder. So I use machine for chest but still get a good workout. I have to do what I have to do. Doing tons of rotator exercises and it is slowly feeling some better. My doc says I could have surgery but I really don't want to. Hoping I can rehab it to some degree. I found out that 0.25 adex eod is to much for me. My estrogen crashes I am pretty sure. I hurt in all my joints and was very unmotivated and go weaker. I dropped back to 0.25 the day of my shot and all the sides went away.
After the next 2 weeks should i just drop back to my TRT dose or maybe drop to 250 a week for a few weeks? Just wondering because I will still have over half a vial left of my blast gear. I probably should just drop back and save it for the next. Just figured I would see what you all think.

I was so satisfied with this first cycle that I will just repeat it again next go round in a few months. I am curious about possibly getting some deca and running say 100 a week to see if it may help my shoulder pain. I see some of you guys do that. Not decided yet. I am scared of orals like dbol. Curious about anavar though. Seems mild. I just have so many ideas floating around. Also curious about winny but scared of screwing up my cholesterol. I read where some of you run it low dose with TRT to help lower shbg. Not sure if I even need that. So I have rambled on for a while. What do you guys think? I have really come to value this forums knowledge. So glad I found this site.