How bad are AAS' for you really?

[Obs]

Obv mainstream docs say theyre awful. Of course lots of meathead bodybuilders say theyre not... but I get the sense that those dudes are the type that deny human-influence climate change and support the confederate flag because "its heritage."

So whats the solid evidence for or against? If you dont believe in basic scientific truths like global warming, I cant take you seriously though

I didn't see the last part before I posted.
By all means dont take anyone here seriously.

Please spare us future bullshit. You had a good question until you added the libtard crap.

[guitarzan]

I didn't see the last part before I posted.
By all means dont take anyone here seriously.

Please spare us future bullshit. You had a good question until you added the libtard crap.

Ha, I was quite surprised when you didn't address that earlier! I'm still biting my tongue

[Obs]

Ha, I was quite surprised when you didn't address that earlier! I'm still biting my tongue

I like to help when I can. When someone doubts obvious things like like the Easter bunny though... It just immediately cancels out any advice they have.

Jeez, some of the smartest guys on here do not believe close to the same as I do about opinionated subjects but that doesn't mean they don't know more than me.

I can't even stand communicating with numbere but he is a genius on AAS and many other things and a hell of a lot smarter than me. Why is it people place a dumb opinion on a controversial subject as a basis for how intelligent they see that person?

We are all just human and we all believe certain things that are wrong too. It doesn't cancel out our intelligence.

Attachment 170513

[borlef]

I like to help when I can. When someone doubts obvious things like like the Easter bunny though... It just immediately cancels out any advice they have.

Jeez, some of the smartest guys on here do not believe close to the same as I do about opinionated subjects but that doesn't mean they don't know more than me.

I can't even stand communicating with numbere but he is a genius on AAS and many other things and a hell of a lot smarter than me. Why is it people place a dumb opinion on a controversial subject as a basis for how intelligent they see that person?

We are all just human and we all believe certain things that are wrong too. It doesn't cancel out our intelligence.

Attachment 170513

In some ways I agree, but if someone says the holocaust didn't happen, I don't care what they have to tell me next, they are clearly in denial of some basic truths. So I will have a very hard time putting great trust in the rest of their opinions. Ultimately with something like AAS and their effects, I think it's important to know who is giving you the advice. If it's some asshole bro-stereotype who says 9/11 is a hoax, claims he slept with 700 women, total know-it-all type, it's hard to take that guy seriously. It's just so damn hard to know how reputable people are. It's so much easier to always go with the mainstream consensus of "steroids are AWFUL for you" than some random articles written by an amateur lifter.

My apologies in getting too political-ish, just trying to understand who is behind the words; a thoughtful, intelligent person who looks at facts and science and research, or a dude who refuses to and just spouts off not knowing shit really.

[TRA]

In some ways I agree, but if someone says the holocaust didn't happen, I don't care what they have to tell me next, they are clearly in denial of some basic truths. So I will have a very hard time putting great trust in the rest of their opinions. Ultimately with something like AAS and their effects, I think it's important to know who is giving you the advice. If it's some asshole bro-stereotype who says 9/11 is a hoax, claims he slept with 700 women, total know-it-all type, it's hard to take that guy seriously. It's just so damn hard to know how reputable people are. It's so much easier to always go with the mainstream consensus of "steroids are AWFUL for you" than some random articles written by an amateur lifter.

My apologies in getting too political-ish, just trying to understand who is behind the words; a thoughtful, intelligent person who looks at facts and science and research, or a dude who refuses to and just spouts off not knowing shit really.

Definitely not to fuel the fire nor to engage in an online debate, but a couple of things. First of all, this is no statement on my belief/disbelief in climate change, merely my belief in what you are discussing, SCIENCE.
Climate change is NOT a proven basic truth. If you have read both sides you will find very compelling evidence for both theories. However, it quickly became a politicized issue because, big surprise, there was money to be made from it. Al Gore made millions/billions on the carbon credits which was born of the theory. So once politicized the information presented is done so in a manner to further the agenda.
There are numerous scientific reports refuting some of the findings for our role in climate change, and some of the reports supporting it have in fact been deemed pseudoscience. But again, it's a political issue.
If you really want to know the truth I would recommend researching and really reading the european studies that oppose it by leading scientists, because science is about looking at everything and making a decision based on the evidence. Again, not saying I believe or don't - it's hard to make a decision because all the information we are given is filtered through the hands of people who all stand to gain something - Al Gore and other cronies who profit by it, or corporations and magnets who gain by refuting it so they are not restricted in their production/commerce...and now it is a political issue.

And comparing it to the holocaust is simply faulty logic.

Referring to people who disagree with you as jackasses further shows a lack of truth-seeking.

Just sayin'

[Obs]

Definitely not to fuel the fire nor to engage in an online debate, but a couple of things. First of all, this is no statement on my belief/disbelief in climate change, merely my belief in what you are discussing, SCIENCE.
Climate change is NOT a proven basic truth. If you have read both sides you will find very compelling evidence for both theories. However, it quickly became a politicized issue because, big surprise, there was money to be made from it. Al Gore made millions/billions on the carbon credits which was born of the theory. So once politicized the information presented is done so in a manner to further the agenda.
There are numerous scientific reports refuting some of the findings for our role in climate change, and some of the reports supporting it have in fact been deemed pseudoscience. But again, it's a political issue.
If you really want to know the truth I would recommend researching and really reading the european studies that oppose it by leading scientists, because science is about looking at everything and making a decision based on the evidence. Again, not saying I believe or don't - it's hard to make a decision because all the information we are given is filtered through the hands of people who all stand to gain something - Al Gore and other cronies who profit by it, or corporations and magnets who gain by refuting it so they are not restricted in their production/commerce...and now it is a political issue.

And comparing it to the holocaust is simply faulty logic.

Referring to people who disagree with you as jackasses further shows a lack of truth-seeking.

Just sayin'

^^^

[borlef]

Definitely not to fuel the fire nor to engage in an online debate, but a couple of things. First of all, this is no statement on my belief/disbelief in climate change, merely my belief in what you are discussing, SCIENCE.
Climate change is NOT a proven basic truth. If you have read both sides you will find very compelling evidence for both theories. However, it quickly became a politicized issue because, big surprise, there was money to be made from it. Al Gore made millions/billions on the carbon credits which was born of the theory. So once politicized the information presented is done so in a manner to further the agenda.
There are numerous scientific reports refuting some of the findings for our role in climate change, and some of the reports supporting it have in fact been deemed pseudoscience. But again, it's a political issue.
If you really want to know the truth I would recommend researching and really reading the european studies that oppose it by leading scientists, because science is about looking at everything and making a decision based on the evidence. Again, not saying I believe or don't - it's hard to make a decision because all the information we are given is filtered through the hands of people who all stand to gain something - Al Gore and other cronies who profit by it, or corporations and magnets who gain by refuting it so they are not restricted in their production/commerce...and now it is a political issue.

And comparing it to the holocaust is simply faulty logic.

Referring to people who disagree with you as jackasses further shows a lack of truth-seeking.

Just sayin'

Bruh, who stands more to gain, exxon, shell, BP and the thousands of other oil companies making many trillions in revenue, or Al Gore? When 97% of scientists are in agreement, and the few percent that don't all have ties to big oil, it's pretty damn clear. If 97% of people you talked to saw your brother at the store today with a hot chick, and 3% said they don't think it was him there with the hottie, and those 3% fucking hate your brother, it was him. He was there. And the science is not hard to follow.

But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.

[Obs]

Bruh, who stands more to gain, exxon, shell, BP and the thousands of other oil companies making many trillions in revenue, or Al Gore? When 97% of scientists are in agreement, and the few percent that don't all have ties to big oil, it's pretty damn clear. If 97% of people you talked to saw your brother at the store today with a hot chick, and 3% said they don't think it was him there with the hottie, and those 3% fucking hate your brother, it was him. He was there. And the science is not hard to follow.

But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.

Back to the original question. If you only listen to those you think sound intelligent then ok. Shit advice is not allowed on this board without serious hazing.

Tell me are cigarettes bad for you?
Do they cause cancer?
Dust inhalation can cause cancer and emphysema...
Hell, what if its the raw butane breathed in when cigarettes are lit?

Anyone can poke holes in any argument. Aas in excess will kill you. Shoot two grams of tren a week and at 80mg of halo ed for a couple years and that is as long as we will know you. Drinking too much water can kill you. Everything in moderation if you seek longevity.
Bodybuilders are some party hard guys and they may be dying under the age of fifty simply because of rec drugs.

I just doubt that. There is a liver, kidney, heart failure trend amoung BBs at early age. Orals are proven hepatoxic, tren raises my bp which deteriorates arteries.

I will pull you up a list.

[Obs]

Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.
The Dead Pool?
These bodybuilders are thankfully still alive at the time of this writing, but have suffered major health issues.

Tom Prince
Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35

This is all from Chris Colucci ^^^
Lotta damnkidneys going bad very young.
I know a lot of 50 year old crack heads...
Rec drugs.... I doubt that. I smell denial, really deep denial.

[Obs]

Shit, I been wondering where all the older forum members went... They fookin died brah!

[kelkel]

But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.

Since you commented essentially that unless medically trained our opinions mean nothing I'm curious why you're even here? Obviously anything we say not accompanied by "MD" in our signature means nothing to you. And when it comes to the medical world, doctors are not trained in AAS in med school. Not even TRT for example unless they take it upon themselfes. The overwhelming majority know very little about AAS other than old school dogma that it's horrible for you. Regardless of whether their title is endo or uro.

But when it comes to gaining knowledge you simply refuse to accept it from what you disdainfully consider layman, even though many here have been in this game I'd imagine longer than you've been alive. Your parents must have had a great time backing up everything they told you with a study.

Oh, and what I highlighted in bold above is the perception you've given to everyone here unfortunately. And btw "bruh" (whatever that means) there are many here with scientific knowledge including MD's, but who wants to deal with someone who basically puts forth a litmus test as to whether their views should be considered valid or not. Quite myopic and one dimensional at the least.

[Obs]

In some ways I agree, but if someone says the holocaust didn't happen, I don't care what they have to tell me next, they are clearly in denial of some basic truths. So I will have a very hard time putting great trust in the rest of their opinions. Ultimately with something like AAS and their effects, I think it's important to know who is giving you the advice. If it's some asshole bro-stereotype who says 9/11 is a hoax, claims he slept with 700 women, total know-it-all type, it's hard to take that guy seriously. It's just so damn hard to know how reputable people are. It's so much easier to always go with the mainstream consensus of "steroids are AWFUL for you" than some random articles written by an amateur lifter.

My apologies in getting too political-ish, just trying to understand who is behind the words; a thoughtful, intelligent person who looks at facts and science and research, or a dude who refuses to and just spouts off not knowing shit really.

Look up Christopher Langan and watch some of his videos on his beliefs. Then read his theory, "the cognitive theory of the model universe." You won't be able to keep up to the second paragraph. The guys IQ is unmeasureable and he believes it is mathematically possible to prove the existence of God. As a climate change guy I am betting you are atheist or agnostic. If Chris Langan helps you with a math problem though, he will be right.

Nearly everyone who posted doesn't believe in climate change but they all gave the same advice. Don't act like people have to believe something you believe to be considered intelligent. You, just like all of us, only know what you have been told and taught. Global warming is a means of control and tax collection, by a government and governments, that you think have interests in mind, other than money and power.
When mount Tambora erupted in 1815 it caused "the endless winter"
It literally produced more carbon emissions than mankind in the duration of its existence. You will read articles on snopes that base things like volcanic eruptions on a yearly basis average and say "volcanoes only produce 1/20th the emissions per year of mankind. Well, guess what... They disinclude major incidents such as the eruption in 1815.

I know two things:
Everything is about money.
People are not in control and never will be.

Gonna go fire up one of my diesel engines and go cut down a tree. Time to make money. Remember, I am about to remove enough paper from the earth today, to supply everyone on this forum for a couple months. Think about that when you are blow drying your hands after wiping your ass with two squares of tp, trying to save the planet.

I don't believe you are less intelligent because you believe in climate change. We are all just slightly smarter than apes and we are all just along for the ride. I may be dead wrong, tomorrow we may wake up and the ice caps have melted. We aren't going to stop it though. Enjoy the ride.

[borlef]

Look up Christopher Langan and watch some of his videos on his beliefs. Then read his theory, "the cognitive theory of the model universe." You won't be able to keep up to the second paragraph. The guys IQ is unmeasureable and he believes it is mathematically possible to prove the existence of God. As a climate change guy I am betting you are atheist or agnostic. If Chris Langan helps you with a math problem though, he will be right.

Nearly everyone who posted doesn't believe in climate change but they all gave the same advice. Don't act like people have to believe something you believe to be considered intelligent. You, just like all of us, only know what you have been told and taught. Global warming is a means of control and tax collection, by a government and governments, that you think have interests in mind, other than money and power.
When mount Tambora erupted in 1815 it caused "the endless winter"
It literally produced more carbon emissions than mankind in the duration of its existence. You will read articles on snopes that base things like volcanic eruptions on a yearly basis average and say "volcanoes only produce 1/20th the emissions per year of mankind. Well, guess what... They disinclude major incidents such as the eruption in 1815.

I know two things:
Everything is about money.
People are not in control and never will be.

Gonna go fire up one of my diesel engines and go cut down a tree. Time to make money. Remember, I am about to remove enough paper from the earth today, to supply everyone on this forum for a couple months. Think about that when you are blow drying your hands after wiping your ass with two squares of tp, trying to save the planet.

I don't believe you are less intelligent because you believe in climate change. We are all just slightly smarter than apes and we are all just along for the ride. I may be dead wrong, tomorrow we may wake up and the ice caps have melted. We aren't going to stop it though. Enjoy the ride.

No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow

[Sh0tsf1red]

No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow

I think you came here looking for a "safe space", do you know which gender you are today?

Most of the climate change cultists seems to think gender is a spectrum? Do you accept or deny these "basic facts"?

I think you should working on your liberal arts degree

[Obs]

No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow

Read this carefully. I drove a 1977 ford that got 29 miles per gallon. My trucks nowaverage about 12-14 because of emissions standards. Do you have any clue how much more fiel is consumed by engines because of emissions standards? My motherfucking chainsaws get half the economy they used to.

Get it? Burn twice the fuel, save the planet.

You just proved my point.

EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY .

You probably believe in "free" education and "free" healthcare. All of us individuals just serve you because we care about you....

[TRA]

I didn't see the last part before I posted.
By all means dont take anyone here seriously.

Please spare us future bullshit. You had a good question until you added the libtard crap.

I'm a little concerned about you Obs, you seem to hold things in. I think you would do better to simply say how you feel.