Low T, High SHBG, Low E2 - Looking for advice

[Youthful55guy]

As I often feel tired and lethargic, I got my hormones checked. The results are even worse than I expected them to be.



Thing is, I've never done any cycles nor taken any hormones (at least not on purpose).

I am 25 years old, work out 6 times a week and been following a low fat diet (which might not have been beneficial, but suppression to that extend can't be from this only?!)

It seems like my doc won't do anything against it :/

Now, I'd like to hear your opinions and recommendations on what compunds could help me to recover.

I don't see Total T listed but I see Bioavailable T listed twice. Was this a typo? The reason I ask is that both Free T and E were low, which would be indicative of low Total T.

Per previous post, having prolactin would also be a good thing to know and you may want to try backing off on the exercise and straightening out the diet to see if that helps.

Your SHBG is very high and that is more than likely the root of your problem (I too have high SHBG but with "normal" Total T). My first bit of advice is to have fill liver labs done, as SHBG is produced in the liver and it could be indicative of other liver abnormalities (not my case). So, once you have eliminated liver damage as the source of the high SHBG, you are faced with the fact that it is probably genetic. This is a problem that affects 10% to 20% of the population, but expresses itself more in men than women, as SHBG binds T much more strongly than female hormones. They have isolated this problem to a specific gene which causes an additional glycosylation site on the protein. This more than doubles the half-life of the protein. So, for a given amount produced by the liver, the effect in the body more than doubles. Since SHBG tightly binds T and the SHBG-T complex is too large to cross the blood-brain barrier, the net effect is that the brain is starved of Free T, hence the Low T symptoms.

Generally, men carrying this gene do not show symptoms until they are in there 30s or 40s, and then the problem is very slowly manifested to a greater and greater effect as the individual ages. One of the first symptoms is difficulty in sustaining an erection and/or lower libido. This is then followed by lower energy levels and increased body fat. Generally, all the symptoms of "Low T". E can also increase, as SHBG also binds other sex hormones. often, low Free T is seen in labs but with "normal" total T. This is often mistakenly interpreted by doctors as not being a problem. Many doctors still believe that Free T is not an important lab. They couldn't be any more wrong! SHBG acts as a sponge to bind Free T which has the effect of protecting it from liver metabolism, which then drives up the Total T lab. Some docs see the "normal" (or in my case borderline high) total T lab and believe the individual is fine, when in fact his brain is being starved of Free T.

Bottom line is that it is difficult to get a doc to treat a guy with low Free T when his Total T is normal. It took me endless searching and having to pay through the nose for a very high profile TRT expert to get me on a treatment protocol. Basically, the only mainstream treatment to overwhelm the SHBG by increasing Total T to the upper end of the "normal" range. That way, the protein is saturated and the excess spills over into Free T. The problem with this approach is that bound T still has peripheral effects in the body, the main one of interest in in stimulating the bone marrow to produce red blood cells. So, after a while, your hemoglobin will go out of range and will be difficult to control, even with the maximal allowable blood donations.

I had to go off the reservation and treat the problem myself with a less conventional treatment. There are at least several oral anabolic steroids that have a profound effect in reducing liver production of SHBG at very, very low levels (compared to what bodybuilders traditionally use). My favorite and most cost-effective is stanozolol (Winstrol). It is no longer available in the USA but is readily available in the EU. I get mine through any of a number of bodybuilder web sites. I found that doses as low 2.5 mg twice a day (5 mg/day) is EXTREMELY effective in keeping my very high SHBG within range. Keep in mind that bodybuilders typically use 50-100 mg per day in cycles. The reason they cycle at those large doses is that it can cause liver damage. I have found that at 2.5 mg twice per day, my liver labs stay in the normal range. Even at 5 mg twice per day (10 mg/day), my liver labs only get to borderline high.

Another anabolic hormone that I've found to be effective is oxandrolone (Anavar). However, it is much more expensive than stanozolol and if often counterfeited, so you have to be careful of your source. I've found to be effective in keeping my SHBG within range at about 5 mg twice per day (10 mg per day). I've read reports of guys having luck with Danocrine (Danazol), but I have no experience with that particular hormone.

[certainlyjacked]

I don't see Total T listed but I see Bioavailable T listed twice. Was this a typo? The reason I ask is that both Free T and E were low, which would be indicative of low Total T.

Per previous post, having prolactin would also be a good thing to know and you may want to try backing off on the exercise and straightening out the diet to see if that helps.

Your SHBG is very high and that is more than likely the root of your problem (I too have high SHBG but with "normal" Total T). My first bit of advice is to have fill liver labs done, as SHBG is produced in the liver and it could be indicative of other liver abnormalities (not my case). So, once you have eliminated liver damage as the source of the high SHBG, you are faced with the fact that it is probably genetic. This is a problem that affects 10% to 20% of the population, but expresses itself more in men than women, as SHBG binds T much more strongly than female hormones. They have isolated this problem to a specific gene which causes an additional glycosylation site on the protein. This more than doubles the half-life of the protein. So, for a given amount produced by the liver, the effect in the body more than doubles. Since SHBG tightly binds T and the SHBG-T complex is too large to cross the blood-brain barrier, the net effect is that the brain is starved of Free T, hence the Low T symptoms.

Generally, men carrying this gene do not show symptoms until they are in there 30s or 40s, and then the problem is very slowly manifested to a greater and greater effect as the individual ages. One of the first symptoms is difficulty in sustaining an erection and/or lower libido. This is then followed by lower energy levels and increased body fat. Generally, all the symptoms of "Low T". E can also increase, as SHBG also binds other sex hormones. often, low Free T is seen in labs but with "normal" total T. This is often mistakenly interpreted by doctors as not being a problem. Many doctors still believe that Free T is not an important lab. They couldn't be any more wrong! SHBG acts as a sponge to bind Free T which has the effect of protecting it from liver metabolism, which then drives up the Total T lab. Some docs see the "normal" (or in my case borderline high) total T lab and believe the individual is fine, when in fact his brain is being starved of Free T.

Bottom line is that it is difficult to get a doc to treat a guy with low Free T when his Total T is normal. It took me endless searching and having to pay through the nose for a very high profile TRT expert to get me on a treatment protocol. Basically, the only mainstream treatment to overwhelm the SHBG by increasing Total T to the upper end of the "normal" range. That way, the protein is saturated and the excess spills over into Free T. The problem with this approach is that bound T still has peripheral effects in the body, the main one of interest in in stimulating the bone marrow to produce red blood cells. So, after a while, your hemoglobin will go out of range and will be difficult to control, even with the maximal allowable blood donations.

I had to go off the reservation and treat the problem myself with a less conventional treatment. There are at least several oral anabolic steroids that have a profound effect in reducing liver production of SHBG at very, very low levels (compared to what bodybuilders traditionally use). My favorite and most cost-effective is stanozolol (Winstrol). It is no longer available in the USA but is readily available in the EU. I get mine through any of a number of bodybuilder web sites. I found that doses as low 2.5 mg twice a day (5 mg/day) is EXTREMELY effective in keeping my very high SHBG within range. Keep in mind that bodybuilders typically use 50-100 mg per day in cycles. The reason they cycle at those large doses is that it can cause liver damage. I have found that at 2.5 mg twice per day, my liver labs stay in the normal range. Even at 5 mg twice per day (10 mg/day), my liver labs only get to borderline high.

Another anabolic hormone that I've found to be effective is oxandrolone (Anavar). However, it is much more expensive than stanozolol and if often counterfeited, so you have to be careful of your source. I've found to be effective in keeping my SHBG within range at about 5 mg twice per day (10 mg per day). I've read reports of guys having luck with Danocrine (Danazol), but I have no experience with that particular hormone.

Sorry for that - the first "test bio available" respectively value 13.25 refers to total test. As you can see, it is on the lower side as well (even though a few months back it was almost double as high). I have to add that I've been in a calorie deficit recently - so this could have caused the drop.

For what exactly should I check the liver? Could you tell my the name of the lab exams?

Regarding steroids, in another forum I got hcg and clomid recommended. Do you know these compounds and do you think that would make sense in my situation?

Thanks for your profound answer!

[Youthful55guy]

Sorry for that - the first "test bio available" respectively value 13.25 refers to total test. As you can see, it is on the lower side as well (even though a few months back it was almost double as high). I have to add that I've been in a calorie deficit recently - so this could have caused the drop.

For what exactly should I check the liver? Could you tell my the name of the lab exams?

Regarding steroids, in another forum I got hcg and clomid recommended. Do you know these compounds and do you think that would make sense in my situation?

Thanks for your profound answer!

I would start with a standard CMP panel before anything exotic. If AST and ALT come back normal, I wouldn't take it any further.

I agree with slacker, given you have been in a calorie deficit and working out strenuously with an unbalanced diet, I HIGHLY suspect it's more of a stress situation. Decreased T production in situations like this is well documented. Probably the best advice regarding hormones you can get is to do nothing right now. Get you nutrition and exercise in balance and retest in a couple months. I suspect T will bounce back.

Regarding SHBG, I don't think it's stress related. You probably are genetically programmed to have higher than "normal" SHBG. It may not be a problem at your age (once you get exercise and nutrition straightened out), but as you get older and you T levels begin to drop, you may begin to experience Low T symptoms at relatively "normal" age-adjusted Total T levels. Something to watch.

[certainlyjacked]

I would start with a standard CMP panel before anything exotic. If AST and ALT come back normal, I wouldn't take it any further.

I agree with slacker, given you have been in a calorie deficit and working out strenuously with an unbalanced diet, I HIGHLY suspect it's more of a stress situation. Decreased T production in situations like this is well documented. Probably the best advice regarding hormones you can get is to do nothing right now. Get you nutrition and exercise in balance and retest in a couple months. I suspect T will bounce back.

Regarding SHBG, I don't think it's stress related. You probably are genetically programmed to have higher than "normal" SHBG. It may not be a problem at your age (once you get exercise and nutrition straightened out), but as you get older and you T levels begin to drop, you may begin to experience Low T symptoms at relatively "normal" age-adjusted Total T levels. Something to watch.

Appreciate your feedback.
ASAT and ALAT are within range, at least according to the references. Where should they be in your opinion?

Is there a way to free up test from SHBG? As far as I'm concerned, I would get some nice benefits in favor of gains.

[Slacker78]

Appreciate your feedback.
ASAT and ALAT are within range, at least according to the references. Where should they be in your opinion?

Is there a way to free up test from SHBG? As far as I'm concerned, I would get some nice benefits in favor of gains.

Excluding AAS, you have to worry to decrease SHBG production in itself. Insulin and androgens decrease SHBG amount while their deficit, might increase it ( thyroid hormones could increase it also ). In your snapshot, or rather in endocrine stressed system state, it's reliable having SHBG so high.

As Youthful55Guy told, your system could be genetically programmed to have "normal" SHBG in a specific range value.

For these matters, i advice you to follow the 3 points i told you above and re-test after 10-15 days. Don't take drugs for the moment, otherwise will be hard to understand if your endocrine collapse is given by an endocrine damage or by an endocrine stress.

[Youthful55guy]

Excluding AAS, you have to worry to decrease SHBG production in itself. Insulin and androgens decrease SHBG amount while their deficit, might increase it ( thyroid hormones could increase it also ). In your snapshot, or rather in endocrine stressed system state, it's reliable having SHBG so high.

As Youthful55Guy told, your system could be genetically programmed to have "normal" SHBG in a specific range value.

For these matters, i advice you to follow the 3 points i told you above and re-test after 10-15 days. Don't take drugs for the moment, otherwise will be hard to understand if your endocrine collapse is given by an endocrine damage or by an endocrine stress.

I agree. You should straighten out your nutrition and exercise first. Then retest in a couple months.

Yes, you can test for SHBG. They do that when they test for Free T, so it's in your last set of labs. I made a long post previously on the only viable ways to control SHBG for guys genetically programmed for high SHBG. I suggest you read that carefully and understand that this is a lifelong approach before you do anything.

[certainlyjacked]

I agree. You should straighten out your nutrition and exercise first. Then retest in a couple months.

Yes, you can test for SHBG. They do that when they test for Free T, so it's in your last set of labs. I made a long post previously on the only viable ways to control SHBG for guys genetically programmed for high SHBG. I suggest you read that carefully and understand that this is a lifelong approach before you do anything.

Can you perhaps send me the link to it? Will definitely look into it.

Basically, I know what to do differently in the future. Will do BW again in a month or two and update you regarding the results.
Did I understand it right that my next BW should include TSH, FT4 and also cortisol?

btw, what's your take on pre workout products including stimulants? Could be another stress factor, right?