Insulin Use For Bodybuilding - question/answer thread

[GearHeaded]

I'm not well read in studies on the subject but I get the point you make. I eat high fiber low carbs during cuts and it works well for me mostly because of the glycogen depletion, though when I measure my blood glucose before meals it is pretty equal as when bulking (I'll have to measure a lot to make sure it's the same though but I think my body regulates this pretty well) my assumption was that forcing the body to release glucose from storages and regulate itself in opposite terms from when bulking (being underfed vs overfed) is what creates a good fat loss environment. So the short term drop in blood glucose triggers this response?

Being in a chronically low blood sugar state and completely depleted of glucose and glycogen stores , Imo, is NOT the best situation for fat loss. These conditions will greatly effect the metabolism and make it slow way way down, as the body senses its in a "starvation" scenario. it will hold on to fat and slow the metabolism down to try and preserve stored calories.

This does not happen with a short temporary drop in blood sugar however.

Also , when you look at Pro bodybuilders like Phil Heath dieting down for Mr Olympia and trying to get down to 5% body fat. He does not want to deplete glucose or glycogen stores during this dieting phase . just the opposite, he eats every 2 hours. about 5500 calories per day (which is a very small deficit for him).. the reason he is constantly eating is to keep the metabolism revving along at full speed. heck he is burning 900 calories a day just in the digestion process of that food (thats like a 3 hour cardio session just right there). If he got too depleted , like your suggesting, then his metabolism would crash and slow way down, and he would not be able to burn body fat while eating a shit ton of food to maintain 255 pounds of muscle .

I'm on a Recomp/cut myself right now. I'm working with a pro level coach. he has me on 3300 calories. some days I'm consuming upwards of 500 grams of carbs. yet the goal with the diet is to get shredded by the end of my 12 week prep.

Sound confusing why I'd be eating so much while cutting ?? well there are ways to burn fat without starving yourself. most open class pro's eat a shit ton of food getting down to 5% body fat.

I know elaborate questions lol but I assumed it had little to do with blood sugar at any given moment but more so with being low on storages. So this is what confused me, insulin comes when you feed, wouldn't this also tell the body "I just got fed". I know from experience that having meals close to cardio sessions is a bad idea. But if lowering blood sugar doesn't signal "I'm fed" but forces you to release glucose later on and triggers the same "I'm underfed" response i then understand why. Might do some experiments

I think your thinking about this 'opposite' of the way it works.. when your blood sugar gets lowered your body will release Ghrelin , which is a hunger hormone, telling you to eat (I'm putting this in super simple terms ,, glucose metabolism system works in much more advanced ways then I'm explaining it).. you may also be getting natty pulses of GH (as there is a connection between Ghrelin release and growth hormone).

so low blood sugar, caused by the release of insulin does not signal "I'm Fed" , its signals "I'm hungry" .. now sure, insulin release itself happens as a result from eating a meal. but by time you've eaten this meal, digested in the stomach, turned into mash and it enters your small intestine so that nutrients can be absorbed into the blood stream (including sugars/carbs), and then your blood sugar raises and then the beta cells release insulin, and AFTER all that your blood sugar goes from being elevated to being lowered again. your ready to eat again . the insulin release resulted in "I'm hungry and need to eat" , NOT "I'm fed""

so again, insulin does not signal "I'm fed"" ,, just the opposite, by time its actually released and done its job, theres signaling for hunger hormones going on and your ready to eat again.

and its during this time , before you eat, when insulin has lowered blood sugar significantly enough to make you hungry, that you could benefit from doing cardio, get a natty pulse of HGH, and tap into stored body fat as fuel for the workout .
if your doing NON GLYCOGEN DEPLETING cardio.. steady state cardio. your body is going to hold onto that glucose it just stored as muscle glycogen so long as you don't do glycogen dependent exercise.

there is really a lot more to this and to glucose metabolism , insulin, etc.. hopefully that explains a little bit the angle I'm coming from

[cousinmuscles]

Being in a chronically low blood sugar state and completely depleted of glucose and glycogen stores , Imo, is NOT the best situation for fat loss. These conditions will greatly effect the metabolism and make it slow way way down, as the body senses its in a "starvation" scenario. it will hold on to fat and slow the metabolism down to try and preserve stored calories.

This does not happen with a short temporary drop in blood sugar however.

Also , when you look at Pro bodybuilders like Phil Heath dieting down for Mr Olympia and trying to get down to 5% body fat. He does not want to deplete glucose or glycogen stores during this dieting phase . just the opposite, he eats every 2 hours. about 5500 calories per day (which is a very small deficit for him).. the reason he is constantly eating is to keep the metabolism revving along at full speed. heck he is burning 900 calories a day just in the digestion process of that food (thats like a 3 hour cardio session just right there). If he got too depleted , like your suggesting, then his metabolism would crash and slow way down, and he would not be able to burn body fat while eating a shit ton of food to maintain 255 pounds of muscle .

I'm on a Recomp/cut myself right now. I'm working with a pro level coach. he has me on 3300 calories. some days I'm consuming upwards of 500 grams of carbs. yet the goal with the diet is to get shredded by the end of my 12 week prep.

Sound confusing why I'd be eating so much while cutting ?? well there are ways to burn fat without starving yourself. most open class pro's eat a shit ton of food getting down to 5% body fat.




I think your thinking about this 'opposite' of the way it works.. when your blood sugar gets lowered your body will release Ghrelin , which is a hunger hormone, telling you to eat (I'm putting this in super simple terms ,, glucose metabolism system works in much more advanced ways then I'm explaining it).. you may also be getting natty pulses of GH (as there is a connection between Ghrelin release and growth hormone).

so low blood sugar, caused by the release of insulin does not signal "I'm Fed" , its signals "I'm hungry" .. now sure, insulin release itself happens as a result from eating a meal. but by time you've eaten this meal, digested in the stomach, turned into mash and it enters your small intestine so that nutrients can be absorbed into the blood stream (including sugars/carbs), and then your blood sugar raises and then the beta cells release insulin, and AFTER all that your blood sugar goes from being elevated to being lowered again. your ready to eat again . the insulin release resulted in "I'm hungry and need to eat" , NOT "I'm fed""

so again, insulin does not signal "I'm fed"" ,, just the opposite, by time its actually released and done its job, theres signaling for hunger hormones going on and your ready to eat again.

and its during this time , before you eat, when insulin has lowered blood sugar significantly enough to make you hungry, that you could benefit from doing cardio, get a natty pulse of HGH, and tap into stored body fat as fuel for the workout .
if your doing NON GLYCOGEN DEPLETING cardio.. steady state cardio. your body is going to hold onto that glucose it just stored as muscle glycogen so long as you don't do glycogen dependent exercise.

there is really a lot more to this and to glucose metabolism , insulin, etc.. hopefully that explains a little bit the angle I'm coming from

Thank you for the long post. Yes I carb up too though I have made the mistake before of not letting go lol. I haven't carb cycled the traditional way instead I just lower my carbs gradually and when I feel too tired and at the point of losing strength I carb up as well as readjust so I don't go too low on calories... Works damn good although next time I'll try regular carb cycling.

How would you compare small doses of insulin pre cardio with using ghrp/ghrh pre cardio? The ghrelin release is much higher with peptides so if the point of lowering blood glucose is to trigger that response would be equally or better done with peptides.

Thanks again

[GearHeaded]

Thank you for the long post. Yes I carb up too though I have made the mistake before of not letting go lol. I haven't carb cycled the traditional way instead I just lower my carbs gradually and when I feel too tired and at the point of losing strength I carb up as well as readjust so I don't go too low on calories... Works damn good although next time I'll try regular carb cycling.

How would you compare small doses of insulin pre cardio with using ghrp/ghrh pre cardio? The ghrelin release is much higher with peptides so if the point of lowering blood glucose is to trigger that response would be equally or better done with peptides.

Thanks again

when on AAS carb cycling is the way to go for cutting or Recomp . When not on AAS, Keto is not a bad option. just keep experimenting and find what works best for you

regarding whats in bold --

I actually don't "compare" them , I use them all together..

here is my protocol , btw I usually get paid to give clients protocols like this

upon waking I inject my GHRPs ( I may use different ones or stack them together, like CJC no Dac with GHRP2 , or hex by itself, also may have a secretagogue like MK in there as well dosing morning and night).

This is going to give me pulses of GH and raise my blood serum levels of it. about an hour later, when my blood levels of GH should be high, I then inject 2iu of Exogenous HGH, this is going to go right to the blood stream (no pulse needed) and amplify and significantly raise my already elevated blood levels of GH. I then inject HGH-Frag, which will oxidize fat for fuel, as well inject the insulin.

I'll take Yohimbe, Green tea extract , and also inject 4Ml of Synthetine.

after doing all this 30 mins later I'm on the treadmill doing my MISS Cardio and in prime fat burning mode