Aromasin think its crashing my E2 somewhat - super tired - depressed

[Clove1234]

I quit my ai on my first cycle and i am now only running nolva 10mg every day. Feel much better

[numbere]

I quit my ai on my first cycle and i am now only running nolva 10mg every day. Feel much better

That was a poor decision.

[Clove1234]

That was a poor decision.

Where are you getting the rules for one cycle fits all information? Have you seen my bloodwork?

[numbere]

Where are you getting the rules for one cycle fits all information? Have you seen my bloodwork?

I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the attitude.

I was made a staff member here because I'm knowledgeable in the source material and give solid advice.

First cycles are meant to be run a certain way for many reasons.

One of these reasons is a litmus for how to dose your AI on future cycles.

If you want to experiment cycling with no AI that's cool but it's an advanced technique that shouldn't be experimented with on your first go around.

Your rhetorical question regarding blood work is flawed because you'd have to pull labs while taking an AI for several weeks and again several weeks after AI termination.

[newbie2017]

Nolva is for pct. I haven't taken an AI in 6 weeks. My initial protocol was .25 arimidex eod but I felt horrible and dropped it as well. I couldn't even get an erection. I'm on my first cycle 500mg test e 2x's a week and 250iu hcg. Getting BW tomorrow to make sure my source is legit but No signs of high estrogen. My natural exogenous test was 965 so I'm looking forward to getting my bw back to see what my levels are. I feel great. I'm not emotional and I haven't had back acne or gyno problems. I'm not here to cause conflict and I definitely don't want to be kicked off the forum. I don't want to step on any toes because I'm still learning and I'm just sharing information and experimenting myself. Everyone is the teacher, the student, and the guinea pig of these science experiments at the end of the day. With that being said...

Gearheaded, I hope it's ok that I quote you on this one:

"this is all person dependent . if growth is your overall goal you may not want to take an AI at all.

Estrogen helps with muscle growth and other growth factors.. here are just a few benefits
- E helps promote nitric oxide production and stimulates better blood flow and relaxation of vascular system (it has cardiovascular benefits ,, this is why we see women in their early 20s with high levels of estrogen rarely ever having heart attack or stroke,, but men in their 20s still die from these things as well as do older post-menopause women with low estrogen)

- E works on a host of different receptors , from the brain, kidney, heart etc.. to skeletal muscle . Estrogen acts on a specific muscle receptor that is responsible for satellite cell proliferation (specifically interacts with ER-B receptors to increase myogenic substances). So estrogen encourages muscle growth in a very similar way as does growth hormone .. satellite cells are muscle stem cells that aide in growth and repair.

- Estrogen , in the presence of high levels of Test, will stimulate the elevation of IGF-1 (the most anabolic hormone) and thus aide in muscle growth as well as more satellite cell stimulation
^^. that right there is enough to warrant letting your E levels be elevated while on cycle if growth is your primary goal

thats kinda the science stuff . but even old school bodybuilders who had no idea the science as to why estrogen helps you grow knew it and they go on record saying they grew much better in the off season by not using an AI

if my main goal is growth , then I rarely use an AI (or use it at lower doses .. just depends on my goal for that cycle) but not every cycle we do is just about growth . if we want to stay tight and dry and less watery then we will probably need to use an AI often . my point is not to be afraid of E especially if growth is the goal.

my theory as to why high levels of test, with tren , with high levels of estrogen will really help a guy grow (if he's not gyno prone) is because of the massive spike in IGF-1 . IGF gains are more permanent growth gains , compared to just blowing up with Dbol for a few weeks"

Credit: gearheaded / knowledgeable member

[numbere]

Nolva is for pct. I haven't taken an AI in 6 weeks...

It doesn't make much sense to throw the results of the last 8 decades of AAS experimentation out the window because of one thread.

[AlphaMindz]

Nolva is for pct. I haven't taken an AI in 6 weeks. My initial protocol was .25 arimidex eod but I felt horrible and dropped it as well. I couldn't even get an erection. I'm on my first cycle 500mg test e 2x's a week and 250iu hcg. Getting BW tomorrow to make sure my source is legit but No signs of high estrogen. My natural exogenous test was 965 so I'm looking forward to getting my bw back to see what my levels are. I feel great. I'm not emotional and I haven't had back acne or gyno problems. I'm not here to cause conflict and I definitely don't want to be kicked off the forum. I don't want to step on any toes because I'm still learning and I'm just sharing information and experimenting myself. Everyone is the teacher, the student, and the guinea pig of these science experiments at the end of the day. With that being said...

Gearheaded, I hope it's ok that I quote you on this one:

"this is all person dependent . if growth is your overall goal you may not want to take an AI at all.

Estrogen helps with muscle growth and other growth factors.. here are just a few benefits
- E helps promote nitric oxide production and stimulates better blood flow and relaxation of vascular system (it has cardiovascular benefits ,, this is why we see women in their early 20s with high levels of estrogen rarely ever having heart attack or stroke,, but men in their 20s still die from these things as well as do older post-menopause women with low estrogen)

- E works on a host of different receptors , from the brain, kidney, heart etc.. to skeletal muscle . Estrogen acts on a specific muscle receptor that is responsible for satellite cell proliferation (specifically interacts with ER-B receptors to increase myogenic substances). So estrogen encourages muscle growth in a very similar way as does growth hormone .. satellite cells are muscle stem cells that aide in growth and repair.

- Estrogen , in the presence of high levels of Test, will stimulate the elevation of IGF-1 (the most anabolic hormone) and thus aide in muscle growth as well as more satellite cell stimulation
^^. that right there is enough to warrant letting your E levels be elevated while on cycle if growth is your primary goal

thats kinda the science stuff . but even old school bodybuilders who had no idea the science as to why estrogen helps you grow knew it and they go on record saying they grew much better in the off season by not using an AI

if my main goal is growth , then I rarely use an AI (or use it at lower doses .. just depends on my goal for that cycle) but not every cycle we do is just about growth . if we want to stay tight and dry and less watery then we will probably need to use an AI often . my point is not to be afraid of E especially if growth is the goal.

my theory as to why high levels of test, with tren , with high levels of estrogen will really help a guy grow (if he's not gyno prone) is because of the massive spike in IGF-1 . IGF gains are more permanent growth gains , compared to just blowing up with Dbol for a few weeks"

Credit: gearheaded / knowledgeable member

Dude I'm surprised .25mg of Adex eod dropped your estrogen to the point of not being able to get it up. Are you sure there aren't other factors at work here..? I'm with you though, Gearheaded also prompted me to try lowering my dose of Adex (although I wouldn't stop it altogether cause being on Tren as well I need to keep estrogen at least somewhat in check to keep prolactin down) and I gotta say I was surprised that I've actually put on a few pounds in the last 10 days or so.. I also look fuller, so I'm guessing I'm holding a bit more water but not too much to where I look bloated.

I was taking 1mg Adex e3d then dropped it to .5mg eod and felt good so decided to drop it even more to .25mg eod and I feel like that's the sweet spot. Still no puffiness or gyno symptoms nor am I getting any bloating whatsoever.. I'm not even on a lot of Test, but having Winny in there jacks up my free Test and with the Tren I've gotten serious Tren dick before when not running an AI so like it's been said, all of this stuff IS very personal to our own chemistry labs we call our bodies.

I feel it's important to keep an open mind with this sh*t and be willing to hear people out that know what they're talking about. We can always grow and learn and potentially get better results from making small adjustments. Of course the next step is to get blood work done to see exactly where I stand. I'll be reporting back with those numbers... Also getting ready to put up some more progress pics as I've been making some nice gains!

*Didn't mean to hijack just got to typing and went with it.