First Cycle Cypionate 400mg /week

[Zigg]

Youre right, I should refer to rather the speed at which your natural production recovers rather than the degree of shut down. A longer cycle with multiple medications and stacks may prolong or hinder the recovery, but yes at the same time the purpose of HGC is to assist in the recovery of natural production. With as simple of a cycle I am running, I am not sure it will be entirely necessary, beneficial perhaps, but if I never have a control sample to reference I will not know how great or minimal the benefit is.

Similar controversy surrounds not running an AI, people would argue that I should be running from day one on my first cycle.
But i havent heard you mention a single opinion or given any perspective on that question.

I would argue that I need a control to reference my hormone levels before progressing or adding a medication to correct something that is only assumed.

[cousinmuscles]

Youre right, I should refer to rather the speed at which your natural production recovers rather than the degree of shut down. A longer cycle with multiple medications and stacks may prolong or hinder the recovery, but yes at the same time the purpose of HGC is to assist in the recovery of natural production. With as simple of a cycle I am running, I am not sure it will be entirely necessary, beneficial perhaps, but if I never have a control sample to reference I will not know how great or minimal the benefit is.

Similar controversy surrounds not running an AI, people would argue that I should be running from day one on my first cycle.
But i havent heard you mention a single opinion or given any perspective on that question.

I would argue that I need a control to reference my hormone levels before progressing or adding a medication to correct something that is only assumed.

When your testicles no longer receive stimuli to continue working, it doesn't matter how harsh the cycle was, they stop working. The speed of shut down is irrelevant, you are guaranteed shut down before you get bloods anyway. HCG will not raise test that much at 500 iu per week, barely noticeable;

Attachment 172042

Figure 2 from: Coviello, A.D., Matsumoto, A.M., Bremner, W.J., Herbst, K.L., Amory, J.K., Anawalt, B.D., Sutton, P.R., Wright, W.W., Brown, T.R., Yan, X., et al. (2005). Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 90, 2595-2602.

Serum T during the treatment phase by group. Values are the mean SEM (bars). The shaded box represents the normal reference range of serum T in healthy men for this assay. Serum T increased from baseline in all four groups in response to TE (200 mg, im, weekly; P0.05) and remained elevated during the treatment phase. The two higher hCG dose groups (250 and 500 IU, sc, every other day) had serum T levels above the normal range during the treatment phase.

The above graph shows that 125 IU HCG E2D (438 IU/wk) did not significantly affect T production in 6 healthy young male volunteers receiving 200 mg T-Eth per week. However both 250 IU E2D (875 IU/wk) and 500 IU E2D (1,750 IU/wk) were effective in increasing serum T levels. In both groups, there was an equivalent boost of about 10 nmol/L (~290 ng/dL).

Regarding adding medications only after realizing you need them - then ditch all ancillaries as the guys who wrote the stickies are dumb only to realize afterwards they weren't...

There isn't any controversy regarding AI. If you are going to use AAS that aromatize at cycle dosages there's no avoiding it, what you can do is get bloods to titrate your dose and use exemestane that doesn't affect lipids like arimidex. Unless you plan on doing some kind of ladyboy makeover, they apply (lots of) topical estrogen to achieve a feminine look...

Should you try going cold turkey with no PCT? No one is going to advise that and you will recover, what you will endure and for how long varies individually, but there is plenty of scientific research on PCT after reading AAS use vs no PCT so I don't understand why this is asked.

Your semen consists of only a couple percent sperms, the rest of the fluid isn't even produced in the testicles, so whatever you are trying to measure and your method is obsolete. HCG is simply an insurance that your testicles will not make the effectiveness of your PCT to lag behind.

[Zigg]

Following up,

These are my labs from 3 weeks ago, i took these before I administered my second weekly pin.

testosterone, total 1700 ng/dL
hematocrit, blood 44.4 %
estradiol, serum 62 pg/mL
(SGOT), serum 30 U/L
(SGPT), serum 32 U/L

After speaking with my endo, (he's well aware of the cycle), He confirmed some of my prior assumptions:

1. Unless your estradiol is off the chart it is more of a risk to administer an aromatase inhibitor than just test alone.
He explained that if you are experiencing no side effects you run the risk of lowering the estradiol too much causing more stress and imbalance on your endocrine system.

2. PCT - he again confirmed my assumption, that unless your FSH and LH did not "spark" after ending the cycle he recommended to recover cold turkey.

3. The last recommendation he gave me was to get a sperm count analysis, I wanted to mention this because its not something I hear referenced often on the forum.

My 12 week cycle is complete, I actually ended about 1 week early due to scheduling restraints that were limiting my access to weight train. I did not run an AI throughout cycle, I experienced no side effects. After 3 weeks of ending my cycle I experienced no side effects coming off. I feel the return to homeostasis, a very moderate grogginess waking up in the morning and more standard fatigue after the gym. But otherwise nothing I couldn't continue without a PCT. Overall ive gained around 15-20 pounds, ill be getting exact measurements within the next 3 months.

A lot of the instructions out there on the webs refer to body builders doing major stacks or being used after your natural potential has been met. For someone like myself just trying to reach my maximum potential more quickly than natural, I am not sure all of the bro science necessarily applies. My cycle was productive clean at Test Only 400mg/ml a week. That does is below the suggested standard first cycle of 500mg/ml. I had all the safety precautions on hand, AI, Nolva, Colmid. But I certainly did not need HGC which is highly recommended. So unless you are doing a huge stack, I would recommend you see how your body reacts to Test alone before stacking anything. Start Low and Slow.

And just to not sound hypocritical I will be running Nolva and Clomid PCT, but reiterate at 3 weeks post cycle, my body is at a point where I do NOT feel it is necessary

And in regard to sexual health, my testicles did not atrophy to a point that it was noticeable, my sex drive was high throughout cycle. The only side effect I experienced was some mild acne on my shoulders and chest.


Oh! one thing to mention, that is a side effect of weight training in general not just steroids. Range of motion and flexibility decrease significantly from weight training. I imagine this is a major cause of injury. Remember to stretch ! afterward, not before.


Please feel free to offer you debates or supports and suggestions.

I am likely going to administer the same protocol for my second cycle, I see no benefit at adding unknown variables at this point.
I will also follow up with post cycle labs soon.