Medical doctors

[Proximal]

Lets be clear on something, they have a medical condition or psychological condition (whichever way you want to look at it) that can justify the use of the prescription of testosterone etc and the accompanying side effects. You want to take them for the cosmetic purposes, the purpose of a doctor is to treat medical conditions... not boost your ego. So how you can try to make an equivalence between the two makes no sense to me.

Steroids can help you become bigger, but so can hard work.... drugs are not a short cut... if you really want it you will go and get it. Steroids are also not "healthy" they cause side effects which can lead to permanent issues like hypertension, heart issues.

I’m truly not trying to be a smart ass, just having fun and playing devils advocate here.

But, why prescribe someone testosterone or estrogen for gender disorders then if there is a chance there are side effects?

Actually the answer is simply, because many medications carry risk. It’s just which risk is “worse”. In your argument would you say that living as a different gender is worth the immense medical cost of treating “hypertension, heart issues” (that’s potentially, of course). Truly, that is billions upon billions of $ we all foot the bill for if we are paying for medical insurance (being that CV disease is the #1 killer in the US).

So again , playing devils advocate here: Really, my elevated health insurance costs are going to your sex-change treatment & surgery AND then I’m going to pay again for your CV disease?

Now I’m making myself feel guilty, because not only is my insurance paying for my test, but oops, my BP is elevated (maybe related), so there’s more medications/costs. Oops, the BP meds give me ED, there’s more medications/costs. Oops, elevated hair loss, TY insurance for my propecia. Doubtful that any of you share my medical provider, but if you do, TY for covering my costs.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I’m truly not trying to be a smart ass, just having fun and playing devils advocate here.

But, why prescribe someone testosterone or estrogen for gender disorders then if there is a chance there are side effects?

Actually the answer is simply, because many medications carry risk. It’s just which risk is “worse”. In your argument would you say that living as a different gender is worth the immense medical cost of treating “hypertension, heart issues” (that’s potentially, of course). Truly, that is billions upon billions of $ we all foot the bill for if we are paying for medical insurance (being that CV disease is the #1 killer in the US).

So again , playing devils advocate here: Really, my elevated health insurance costs are going to your sex-change treatment & surgery AND then I’m going to pay again for your CV disease?

Now I’m making myself feel guilty, because not only is my insurance paying for my test, but oops, my BP is elevated (maybe related), so there’s more medications/costs. Oops, the BP meds give me ED, there’s more medications/costs. Oops, elevated hair loss, TY insurance for my propecia. Doubtful that any of you share my medical provider, but if you do, TY for covering my costs.

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

[Proximal]

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

Joe Weider & the entire "fitness" industry is very happy that more people are not getting psychotherapy, lol.

[Proximal]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

[SocioMachiavelli]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

[EDCG19]

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

Yes I have experience with this and that's what it did for me now some of the paranoia may be good but it depends
I'm trying to quit but tbh I only use cannabis is social situations and not a daily cannabis user

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[SocioMachiavelli]

Yes I have experience with this and that's what it did for me now some of the paranoia may be good but it depends
I'm trying to quit but tbh I only use cannabis is social situations and not a daily cannabis user

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Please be careful with it. Some people can smoke it regularly and be fine, but others.... I'd hate for it to fk you up.

[Couchlockd]

Please be careful with it. Some people can smoke it regularly and be fine, but others.... I'd hate for it to fk you up.

Dude I don't get how you can be in any medical or phsycu field and be so nieve and uneducated on cannabis.

"Hope you don't smoke it and it fucks you up".

Lord.thats your answer to every time legalization or medical cannabis is spoke about.

It has it's place, temporary anxiety is a acute short lived side effect.

We have alcohol and tobacco legal.

Both will 100% without a doubt kill you with regular consumption over time.

Both will produce violent withdrawal and possibly violent behavior during withdrawal.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill you. One if the few substances out there that stopping usage will kill you.

Heroin withdrawal won't even kill you.

We have opiates being used when medically deemed necessary, side effects are terrible if not used to them

Vomiting
Agression.

But the benifit of these drugs out weight the risk

So consuming some cannabis may make you paranoid for a half hour or so.

I know you say you've treated people who have terrible episodes after using cannabis. But these people I guarantee are already on anti psychotics, depression, or anxiety drugs and have underlying mental disorders. One of the classic symptoms of mental disorders is placing blame on anyone bor anything other than taking responsibility for ones actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Cannabis seems to be a perfect scape goat to blame for some nut cases irrational behavior.

[Proximal]

I work in psychiatry, Cannabis can cause anxiety, paranoia and psychosis in those who are susceptible to it.

Even Joe Rogan who is an advocate of pot said on his podcast that it makes him "anxious as fuck". There is no such thing as a drug that only does good for 100% of it's users.

I was being sarcastic, of course it is not all positive. Yet it is becoming more & more legal. And of course lets not forget alcohol & tobacco. I have been in the medical profession for 35 years & have a fair amount of background.

I apologize for introducing some unrelated and convoluted points. I was in pain, in the waiting room, waiting to see my MD and do some dry needling.

I think my point is, perhaps it’s time we consider getting some PEDs out of the shadows, destigmatize them and consider making them legal as well. I still have a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the questions & tone I got from my endocrinologist regarding getting TRT.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I was being sarcastic, of course it is not all positive. Yet it is becoming more & more legal. And of course lets not forget alcohol & tobacco. I have been in the medical profession for 35 years & have a fair amount of background.

I apologize for introducing some unrelated and convoluted points. I was in pain, in the waiting room, waiting to see my MD and do some dry needling.

I think my point is, perhaps it’s time we consider getting some PEDs out of the shadows, destigmatize them and consider making them legal as well. I still have a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the questions & tone I got from my endocrinologist regarding getting TRT.

Don't apologise.... thats my bad I'm sleep deprived so not quite with it.

In the UK over here we can use Anabolics legally, just not distribute them. I'd personally seek out a new Endo

[Proximal]

Don't apologise.... thats my bad I'm sleep deprived so not quite with it.

In the UK over here we can use Anabolics legally, just not distribute them. I'd personally seek out a new Endo

No, we’re cool now (the endo & me). Like I said, in the profession as is my wife - she actually got me the referral with the top/head of dept. I just thought I’d get a tad bit more professional courtesy & she really busted my balls. That was actually after she squeezed the atrophied little fellas.

Always a pleasure exchanging posts with you. Sorry again if I came off grumpy, pain is an ass-kicker.

Hey and HMB, sorry if I sent your thread in another direction.

[Gallowmere]

Legalized pot, let's see what it does to the cartels. Damn, tax the hell out of it, what a great idea. I'm sure pot does nothing but good for the user.

Make testosterone more easily available but tax the hell out of it. A multi-billion dollar industry. Actually, should invest in the company's that make pharm test.

Define “tax the hell out of it”. Pharma test is already expensive to the point where I use verified UGL for a good chunk of my TRT, and I have a script. Just gonna stockpile the pharma in case my UG source goes tits up one day.

[Proximal]

Define “tax the hell out of it”. Pharma test is already expensive to the point where I use verified UGL for a good chunk of my TRT, and I have a script. Just gonna stockpile the pharma in case my UG source goes tits up one day.

I did a quick check at Webster’s and came up dry, lol so I’ll offer this.

I was paying 250/month for a 3 month supply of needles and testosterone. I now pay $35 every 3 month. Was I unusual & too casual with my money? The line was out the door at that clinic and MANY others like it. They were selling sermorelin for an additional 100 per month & it was selling like hot-cakes (could you imagine if they could sell hgh legally at that clinic)?

Point is, that’s over $200 per month I was willing to spend on my TRT compared to now.

Legalize it & GH, tax it, and use the $ for something good. Although, I’m waiting to see where all the tax money from pot out here in California has gone & what it has paid for, lol.

[Proximal]

Sorry, the jury is still out for me regarding the gender confusion issues. They have my sympathy, but not really my support. I'm leaning towards HMB with this one.

[HoldMyBeer]

If a woman feels that they are a man in a woman's body to the extent that it is causing them so much distress in their life.... their only option is to have the surgery and the hormones. A lot of people with gender identity issues can experience mental trauma, suicidal ideation or completing of suicide which > side effects.

People with body dysmorphia, which is closely related to OCD.... one of the most effective way to treat that is with a psychotherapy because once they correct one issue with their appearance will then often move onto another body part that they may wish to change (with true BDD). So this will just become a perpetual cyclical.

If you are low on test..... then absolutely you need it. If you're not you want it..... because it's a shortcut and people don't want to put the work or discipline in naturally first... which is their choice. But it's not a need, it's a want.

I am trying to keep this, not-a-social-issue, but a philosophical one. So I would prefer to avoid going any further down that road.
So, at a high level: I am asking if there is really a big difference between: women wanting to have masculine features, male wanting to have feminine features, (there's lots of permutations, let's not list them all) or a male wanting to have more masculine features.
You can say men having 3-5 times + more testosterone than is natural is unhealthy. Is. a woman having 15-20 times + (normal natural test range for women is 15-70) the amount of testosterone not as unhealthy (not a doctor, idk)
If a woman wanting to be a male makes them happier with their body image, is a male being happier with their body image making them just as happy not warranted?

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[SocioMachiavelli]

I am trying to keep this, not-a-social-issue, but a philosophical one. So I would prefer to avoid going any further down that road.
So, at a high level: I am asking if there is really a big difference between: women wanting to have masculine features, male wanting to have feminine features, (there's lots of permutations, let's not list them all) or a male wanting to have more masculine features.
You can say men having 3-5 times + more testosterone than is natural is unhealthy. Is. a woman having 15-20 times + (normal natural test range for women is 15-70) the amount of testosterone not as unhealthy (not a doctor, idk)
If a woman wanting to be a male makes them happier with their body image, is a male being happier with their body image making them just as happy not warranted?

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They identify as a man in a woman's body..... they need for their sanity to be a man.... not have muscles like one but BE a man. They can only achieve that by hormones and surgery.... to become an actual man.

You are a man.... any man that does not have a hormone imbalance can improve their physique which I'm assuming is what you mean by body image? because if you're an ugly fker..... you're still going to be an ugly fker.... that won't change. You can go to the gym, be disciplined, not eat shit and work your ass off....you'll become more "manly". Instead of wanting a doctor to give you a shortcut, if you want a shortcut that's up to you to obtain via other means, but not a docs responsibility. Unless you have a hormonal imbalance that needs correcting.

Like I explained, people with actual BDD or muscle dysmorphia will continue to experience obsessive thoughts despite their changes because it is their distorted perception or low self esteem that needs to be addressed. I'm sure there are still guys on here that used to be really skinny fuckers.....who are now a lot, lot bigger..... yet it still isn't enough for them. so the drugs didn't fix the problem.... So what would it achieve.... the feelings of inadequacy would remain and more health problems be engendered.

Does that make sense?

[HoldMyBeer]

They identify as a man in a woman's body..... they need for their sanity to be a man.... not have muscles like one but BE a man. They can only achieve that by hormones and surgery.... to become an actual man.

You are a man.... any man that does not have a hormone imbalance can improve their physique which I'm assuming is what you mean by body image? because if you're an ugly fker..... you're still going to be an ugly fker.... that won't change. You can go to the gym, be disciplined, not eat shit and work your ass off....you'll become more "manly". Instead of wanting a doctor to give you a shortcut, if you want a shortcut that's up to you to obtain via other means, but not a docs responsibility. Unless you have a hormonal imbalance that needs correcting.

Like I explained, people with actual BDD or muscle dysmorphia will continue to experience obsessive thoughts despite their changes because it is their distorted perception or low self esteem that needs to be addressed. I'm sure there are still guys on here that used to be really skinny fuckers.....who are now a lot, lot bigger..... yet it still isn't enough for them. so the drugs didn't fix the problem.... but they may have contributed to health problems.

Does that make sense?

I don't think we are going to get anywhere. I think we should figuratively shake hands and respectfully move on. To continue with this discussion we would have to bring up touchy subjects that I am not willing to go in to (we will leave that for the Twitter trolls), nor was it the spirit of this thread (which was equal access to hormone treatment).

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[SocioMachiavelli]

I don't think we are going to get anywhere. I think we should figuratively shake hands and respectfully move on. To continue with this discussion we would have to bring up touchy subjects that I am not willing to go in to (we will leave that for the Twitter trolls), nor was it the spirit of this thread (which was equal access to hormone treatment).

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I think that there is a difference between individuals who need to be the opposite sex to have any quality of life who can only achieve this with hormones and an operation when compared to men without hormone imbalances who can become more manly without a prescription.

*shakes hand*