Deca question. can i TRT with Deca? heard guys run it year round.

[Youthful55guy]

Anectdotal but I started Finasteride 1mg 3.5 months ago and my Hemoglobin is lower on my current labs.

Thanks! From what I've read, your results are probably more than a coincidence. I'm beginning to believe the DHT/erythrocytosis connection. Here's a 2015 study of 179 men on TRT with and without Finasteride that available OPEN ACCESS at PubMed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25596360

While the study is not as clean as I'd like it to be (they mixed forms and doses of TRT), it does show that men on TRT and Finasteride have a lower change in hematocrit levels.

[kelkel]

Thanks! From what I've read, your results are probably more than a coincidence. I'm beginning to believe the DHT/erythrocytosis connection. Here's a 2015 study of 179 men on TRT with and without Finasteride that available OPEN ACCESS at PubMed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25596360

While the study is not as clean as I'd like it to be (they mixed forms and doses of TRT), it does show that men on TRT and Finasteride have a lower change in hematocrit levels.

I wonder what their point was in monitoring LH/FSH levels.

[Youthful55guy]

I wonder what their point was in monitoring LH/FSH levels.

It was a retrospective study and I think the LH and FSH data was extracted from the records simply to confirm that the TRT was effective. Here's the only discussion of gonadotropins outside of the abstract:

A negative correlation was observed between ΔHct and follow-up LH (ρ=−0.212, p=0.005) and FSH (ρ=-0.254, p=0.001), as would be expected with an intact hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.


I reread the Discussion and it was particularly insightful. This is not the first study implicate DHT in erythrocytosis. They cite 7 other studies also implicating DHT.

Understanding the role of DHT in erythrocytosis is of particular interest to me. Like a lot of guys, I "feel" a lot better with more and more T. I suspect this is due to faster recovery in from exercise. However, I know from experience that levels higher than about 120 mg/week (split E3D) is not sustainable because my hemoglobin level start exceeding the upper range of normal after a couple months, even with the maximum allowable frequency of blood donations. There's also the long-term negative effect of blood donations on ferritin levels and thyroid function to consider. If I could keep hemoglobin in check by preventing the rise in DHT by using finasteride, it may alleviate the need for blood donation and possibly allow me to increase my TRT dose to a higher sustainable dose without the need for blood donation. Of course, it mean I would not qualify for blood donation either, as finasteride is highly teratogenic to developing male fetuses and on the forbidden list for blood donation (requires a 4 week withdrawal period).

Lots of things to consider. Right now I'm in the middle of a 6-week 'enhanced' TRT trial (35 mg T-cyp/day) + finasteride (1 mg/day) + anastrozole (~0.07 mg/day). I plan to follow up with labs in at the conclusion of the 6-week trial to see where I'm at then go back to my normal TRT protocol for 4 weeks. Donate blood, and then repeat the experiment but adjust the finasteride and anastrozole doses based on the lab results. I plan on repeating this experimental cycle until I either reach a point where my DHT is in check or I've reached a maximum dose of 5 mg finasteride per day. At that point, I will probably need to adjust the T-dose down, but time will tell.

[kelkel]

It was a retrospective study and I think the LH and FSH data was extracted from the records simply to confirm that the TRT was effective. Here's the only discussion of gonadotropins outside of the abstract:

A negative correlation was observed between ΔHct and follow-up LH (ρ=−0.212, p=0.005) and FSH (ρ=-0.254, p=0.001), as would be expected with an intact hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis.


I reread the Discussion and it was particularly insightful. This is not the first study implicate DHT in erythrocytosis. They cite 7 other studies also implicating DHT.

Understanding the role of DHT in erythrocytosis is of particular interest to me. Like a lot of guys, I "feel" a lot better with more and more T. I suspect this is due to faster recovery in from exercise. However, I know from experience that levels higher than about 120 mg/week (split E3D) is not sustainable because my hemoglobin level start exceeding the upper range of normal after a couple months, even with the maximum allowable frequency of blood donations. There's also the long-term negative effect of blood donations on ferritin levels and thyroid function to consider. If I could keep hemoglobin in check by preventing the rise in DHT by using finasteride, it may alleviate the need for blood donation and possibly allow me to increase my TRT dose to a higher sustainable dose without the need for blood donation. Of course, it mean I would not qualify for blood donation either, as finasteride is highly teratogenic to developing male fetuses and on the forbidden list for blood donation (requires a 4 week withdrawal period).

Lots of things to consider. Right now I'm in the middle of a 6-week 'enhanced' TRT trial (35 mg T-cyp/day) + finasteride (1 mg/day) + anastrozole (~0.07 mg/day). I plan to follow up with labs in at the conclusion of the 6-week trial to see where I'm at then go back to my normal TRT protocol for 4 weeks. Donate blood, and then repeat the experiment but adjust the finasteride and anastrozole doses based on the lab results. I plan on repeating this experimental cycle until I either reach a point where my DHT is in check or I've reached a maximum dose of 5 mg finasteride per day. At that point, I will probably need to adjust the T-dose down, but time will tell.

Yes, I've read several studies in the past on it. There are other studies showing frequent blood donations among older guys (us) can lead to anemia so caution needs to be exercised. I'll be quite interested in seeing your lab results. I've pulled dht labs multiple times on various doses of T from TRT levels to 400 mgs. Finasteride's ability to block dht even at higher doses of T is impressive. I haven't gone past 400 mgs of T in quite a while but when I do I'll pull labs again to evaluate.

[Too-$mall]

Yes, I've read several studies in the past on it. There are other studies showing frequent blood donations among older guys (us) can lead to anemia so caution needs to be exercised. I'll be quite interested in seeing your lab results. I've pulled dht labs multiple times on various doses of T from TRT levels to 400 mgs. Finasteride's ability to block dht even at higher doses of T is impressive. I haven't gone past 400 mgs of T in quite a while but when I do I'll pull labs again to evaluate.

why can't you guys supplement daily with a low dose of iron? I supplement with 10mg daily because my iron intake is very low without it. never meet my daily requirement.

[Youthful55guy]

why can't you guys supplement daily with a low dose of iron? I supplement with 10mg daily because my iron intake is very low without it. never meet my daily requirement.

I usually do for the first 3-4 weeks after my donation and then stop until the next donation. When I take iron supplements continuously (even cutting the pill in half), my iron labs come back high.

[kelkel]

why can't you guys supplement daily with a low dose of iron? I supplement with 10mg daily because my iron intake is very low without it. never meet my daily requirement.

I can do 65 mgs elemental iron for a couple weeks. Beyond that it kills my stomach...