Anadrol added to my TREN/TEST/MAST cycle.... YAY OR NAY why or why not?

[tripmachine]

Hey guys let me briefly run down the current cycle i'm on

week 1-10 tren ace 350mg / week ED injections
week 1-6 mast p 350mg / week ed injections
week 1-16 test p 350mg / week ed injections
week 7-11 mast p 700mg / week ed
week 7-11 anadrol?? 50-80mg ed


Regarding the abombs.... anybody have opinions on adding abombs toward the end of my tren? Thanks!

[HoldMyBeer]

Depends on how much that tren kicks your livers ass. If your 6 week bloods are good/reasonable, go ahead.
Why are you running the test from 11-16 just by itself?

[tripmachine]

Depends on how much that tren kicks your livers ass. If your 6 week bloods are good/reasonable, go ahead.
Why are you running the test from 11-16 just by itself?

Thanks for the reply! I'm probably going to be running VAR for the last 4 weeks with test... Also I was thinking (instead of coming off at week 12.... why not just keep the test going a bit longer? I also am switching esters around week 10 to test enanthate so please excute the later part of my cycle not being fullyl accurate. The main question is regarding anadrol the last 4 weeks I'm running tren, is that a good addition if blood work looks good? I just hear different things about 'bulking, water retention.. etc.' in regards to anadrol. I guess I just need to try and report back here! Thanks again

[GearHeaded]

Anadrol works great with low dose Tren . just keep in mind that the Tren as a progestin based compound has you very sensitized to estrogen, and Anadrol, though it does not convert to estrogen, does bind and interact with estrogen receptors and will illicit estrogen effects (which is totally fine unless your at all prone to gyno) . but you already have the masteron in there, which is definitely going to help with this, BUT you may also need to add a low dose SERM like Nolva when you add the Anadrol. 10mg of Nolva per day should do the trick

[Cuz]

If you plan on running Var i would say save it for next time. Your organs will be pretty taxed from 10 weeks of tren i know var isnt very toxic at all, drol really makes alot of red blood cells to the best of my knowledge...id be weary but then again im a pussy . If you want to run it run it, my opinion the gains wouldnt be worth it

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Depends on how much that tren kicks your livers ass. If your 6 week bloods are good/reasonable, go ahead.
Why are you running the test from 11-16 just by itself?

Everyone talks about Tren beating up your liver, but it’s not C17AA, so from the research I’ve seen it’s not very hepatotoxic at all, and doesn’t seem to be at all until you’re running over a gram a week. Am I missing something?

[GearHeaded]

Everyone talks about Tren beating up your liver, but it’s not C17AA, so from the research I’ve seen it’s not very hepatotoxic at all, and doesn’t seem to be at all until you’re running over a gram a week. Am I missing something?

Methyl-Tren is hepatoxic . but thats an entirely different drug then tren ace, even though it has the word tren it . just like Dbol is just C17 EQ, but that changes the drug big time.
Tren e and ace are not directly liver toxic, though the liver is going to have to process them.

the thing is , most AAS are not really all that liver toxic. even a lot of the orals. now sure you will likely get elevated liver enzymes while running Dbol. but thats what your liver is supposed to do. its like saying its bad for a sponge to get wet cause its gonna soak up all the water ,, umm thats its job. same with the liver. its supposed to process toxins.

I think hepatoxicity of steroid use is quite exaggerated and we really aren't doing much harm to our livers. you don't hear of guys like Jay Cutler, who ran gear for 20 years straight, suffering from liver problems later on in life. you rarely hear of liver issues in bodybuilders (kidney and heart, yes).

unless your an idiot abuser who is going to run 400mg of Anadrol per day for a year straight ,, I wouldn't overly concern myself with liver issues with responsible AAS use.


note: now there are a few drugs out there that are an exception, like Methyl Tren, Halo, and Cheque drops ,, but if abused can cause issues. but most the drugs out there are fairly safe in regards to the liver.
and yes, liver enzymes are going to go up when the liver is processing something like a C17 . but thats whats supposed to happen. this isn't just with steroids either ,, tons of drugs out there people take daily are c17 and do this. even plenty of OTC drugs

[HoldMyBeer]

Everyone talks about Tren beating up your liver, but it’s not C17AA, so from the research I’ve seen it’s not very hepatotoxic at all, and doesn’t seem to be at all until you’re running over a gram a week. Am I missing something?

Not very hepatotoxic, and not hepatotoxic are two different things. I didn't say don't do it, I just said if your bloodwork is reasonable
I have run tren and felt like absolute shit the last quarter of the cycle, there was no way adding an oral would have been a good idea. But it's dependant and the person, their health, what else they're running, etc. So I try to not make blanket statements and say, "yes you should do that, it will be fine." If he said he was running test and primo, I would not have added that disclaimer

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Methyl-Tren is hepatoxic . but thats an entirely different drug then tren ace, even though it has the word tren it . just like Dbol is just C17 EQ, but that changes the drug big time.
Tren e and ace are not directly liver toxic, though the liver is going to have to process them.

the thing is , most AAS are not really all that liver toxic. even a lot of the orals. now sure you will likely get elevated liver enzymes while running Dbol. but thats what your liver is supposed to do. its like saying its bad for a sponge to get wet cause its gonna soak up all the water ,, umm thats its job. same with the liver. its supposed to process toxins.

I think hepatoxicity of steroid use is quite exaggerated and we really aren't doing much harm to our livers. you don't hear of guys like Jay Cutler, who ran gear for 20 years straight, suffering from liver problems later on in life. you rarely hear of liver issues in bodybuilders (kidney and heart, yes).

unless your an idiot abuser who is going to run 400mg of Anadrol per day for a year straight ,, I wouldn't overly concern myself with liver issues with responsible AAS use.


note: now there are a few drugs out there that are an exception, like Methyl Tren, Halo, and Cheque drops ,, but if abused can cause issues. but most the drugs out there are fairly safe in regards to the liver.
and yes, liver enzymes are going to go up when the liver is processing something like a C17 . but thats whats supposed to happen. this isn't just with steroids either ,, tons of drugs out there people take daily are c17 and do this. even plenty of OTC drugs

Thank you for the clarification. I take dbol a lot of the time as a preworkout, and my liver values are never really elevated, but I rarely drink alcohol anymore, so that probably makes up the difference.

cheque drops... are those still around. Our coaches use to feed the football team and wrestlers those in high school before games and matches. Whooo those are fun if you need to kill something. Doubt they do much of anything for lean tissue building put they get a 10 out of 10 for aggressive qualities.
If the military doesn’t take advantage of those, they’re missing out.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Anyways, not to derail your thread OP.

Im a big fan of anadrol, but I’ve never run it on the back side of a cycle, only the front. So I’m gonna have to plead ignorance on this one.

[tripmachine]

wow thanks all you guys for the great opinions/information you have given me. I appreciate you guys taking your time to explain what you believe and already know.. It puts me at a 'I DON'T KNOW' if I'm going to add the anadrol now... So basically if I add the anadrol are you guys thinking I should not run the VAR anytime soon after the anadrol? I don't have to do ALL of my steroids at once but you know when you have a stock pile and start thinking too much, sometimes you can create ideas you think might be good and this is where I'm at with the anadrol lol. I will definitely keep you guys posted if or when I start and update you within this thread. If I do start I will probably pull 1.25cc from the vile 50mg/cc and drink it with my coffee each morning and a banana or something to go down with it.

Any more advice or anyone else have .02 cents to chime in with feel free. Thanks again to you guys for helping me out and directing some great information my way...

P.S. I'm tried Methyl tren before.... I was running it with T-Mos back in 2009 and we were PM'ing each other regarding our protocols and how it was working out for us. He was a real cool guy, very nice and informational. It sure put me in a shock when I found out he died and was gone so fast. RIP T-MOS Methyl-tren was absolutely INSANE, just not sure where or how to get it anymore! (maybe that's a good thing?)

[tripmachine]

1.25 cc anadrol engaged! as of this morning... I will wake up and take it with breakfast..... although I drank it raw before a chaser... I'm thinking I should mix it in a drink, that stuff burns for a bit! jeeze. Well I will keep you guys posted how it works out using it the final 4 weeks with my tren ace.

[GearHeaded]

1.25 cc anadrol engaged! as of this morning... I will wake up and take it with breakfast..... although I drank it raw before a chaser... I'm thinking I should mix it in a drink, that stuff burns for a bit! jeeze. Well I will keep you guys posted how it works out using it the final 4 weeks with my tren ace.

I actually like things like Anadrol and other "bulking" compounds at the very end of cycles . I have a thread on here about how to break through a weight gain plateu using that very method , instead of using kick start bulkers at the start of a cycle . you using anabolics and androgens for most the cycle until you hit the plateu, then at the end you add the wet bulker and bust past it

so will be curious how you do

[tripmachine]

I actually like things like Anadrol and other "bulking" compounds at the very end of cycles . I have a thread on here about how to break through a weight gain plateu using that very method , instead of using kick start bulkers at the start of a cycle . you using anabolics and androgens for most the cycle until you hit the plateu, then at the end you add the wet bulker and bust past it

so will be curious how you do

One question! Do you think I should take 80mg preworkout..... in the a.m. 1-2 hours prior to workout... Or split into 4 doses throughout the day? I'm torn and can't decide as I know both are effective I just don't know which route I should go. Any opinions on the matter?

[powerliftmike]

Anadrol is one of the best, especially in strength sports. Anadrol has about double the half life of dianabol so does not require such frequent dosing. Twice per day should suffice. Regarding hepatoxicity, that is the nature of the recommendation to use sporadically (as the liver is both robust and regenerative); let us not forget however that part of the basis of the recommendation is not solely AST/ALT enzymes, bile, and liver stress, but the detrimental effect on HDL and hypercholesterolemia. Long term status of this can greatly effect endothelial tissue and thus raise the risk of heart disease. Of course this is a classic AAS to raise blood pressure by different routes and long term hypertension destroys the kidneys in particular.

This leads into the trenbolone advisories: tren is actually pretty toxic to the body in general. In fact, as far as I am aware it is the only AAS that has shown to be toxic to the brain (i.e. "17β-trenbolone induces apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons" [Ma & Liu, 2015]). Testosterone is actually protective of neurological tissue. Tren can cause significant hypertension and lead to the aforemented heart disease and kidney disease risks.

Ma, F. & Liu, D. (2015) 17β-trenbolone, an anabolic–androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, 282, 1; pgs 68-76.

[powerliftmike]

Also, the additional of something like anadrol or dianabol to the beginning of a cycle is more the bodybuilding way and we can change the scale numbers quickly while moderate and long esters cause the injectables to build over 3-8 weeks more or less before much is noticed. At the end of a cycle is the powerlifting and strongman way where we have the oils working now and want to boost strength going into a competition.

[tripmachine]

Also, the additional of something like anadrol or dianabol to the beginning of a cycle is more the bodybuilding way and we can change the scale numbers quickly while moderate and long esters cause the injectables to build over 3-8 weeks more or less before much is noticed. At the end of a cycle is the powerlifting and strongman way where we have the oils working now and want to boost strength going into a competition.

Anadrol is one of the best, especially in strength sports. Anadrol has about double the half life of dianabol so does not require such frequent dosing. Twice per day should suffice. Regarding hepatoxicity, that is the nature of the recommendation to use sporadically (as the liver is both robust and regenerative); let us not forget however that part of the basis of the recommendation is not solely AST/ALT enzymes, bile, and liver stress, but the detrimental effect on HDL and hypercholesterolemia. Long term status of this can greatly effect endothelial tissue and thus raise the risk of heart disease. Of course this is a classic AAS to raise blood pressure by different routes and long term hypertension destroys the kidneys in particular.

This leads into the trenbolone advisories: tren is actually pretty toxic to the body in general. In fact, as far as I am aware it is the only AAS that has shown to be toxic to the brain (i.e. "17β-trenbolone induces apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons" [Ma & Liu, 2015]). Testosterone is actually protective of neurological tissue. Tren can cause significant hypertension and lead to the aforemented heart disease and kidney disease risks.

Ma, F. & Liu, D. (2015) 17β-trenbolone, an anabolic–androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, 282, 1; pgs 68-76.

wow thanks powerliftmike! I appreciate the posts of great information... A lot of the real facts and potential side effects are worrisome when you sit and think about them too much but I guess it's better to know than to not! I have always taken d-bol or anadrol weeks 1-4 so I am excited doing the anadrol now at the end! Yesterday and the day before were the first 2 days of my anadrol... I really only took one dose each a.m. at 80mg as a preworkout. I don't know if it's possible but it TOTALLY makes me stronger lol unless it's a major placebo? Yesterday I made sure to try more and more weight than I usually would do and I repped it out a lot 12-20 reps still.. So either way the anadrol or placebo effect is very strong. I think i will just do 40mg a.m and 40mg p.m. 8 hour inbetween like you suggested. Do you recommend possibly still doing 80mg preworkout and then 8 hours later 20-40mg more ?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

wow thanks powerliftmike! I appreciate the posts of great information... A lot of the real facts and potential side effects are worrisome when you sit and think about them too much but I guess it's better to know than to not! I have always taken d-bol or anadrol weeks 1-4 so I am excited doing the anadrol now at the end! Yesterday and the day before were the first 2 days of my anadrol... I really only took one dose each a.m. at 80mg as a preworkout. I don't know if it's possible but it TOTALLY makes me stronger lol unless it's a major placebo? Yesterday I made sure to try more and more weight than I usually would do and I repped it out a lot 12-20 reps still.. So either way the anadrol or placebo effect is very strong. I think i will just do 40mg a.m and 40mg p.m. 8 hour inbetween like you suggested. Do you recommend possibly still doing 80mg preworkout and then 8 hours later 20-40mg more ?

It really does work that fast. It’s pretty awesome stuff. I wouldn’t go over 100 mg a day. I’d just keep doing what you’re doing with the 40/40 split if it’s working. If you still feel good doing that in 3-4 weeks you can try more next time, but some people get a toxic feeling from it after a couple weeks. Better to see how you react before you get all wild with it.

[tripmachine]

day 1... 50mg a.m.
day 2 80mg a.m. (preworkout)
day 3 80mg a.m. (preworkout)
day 4 40mg a.m. 40mg p.m. 8 hour split
day 5 40mg a.m. 40mg p.m. 8 hour split


Sides so far noticed... headaches for sure... especially the 2 days I did 80mg all in one dose. Also lately I've been SO tired.... Like really tired. I sleep around 8-9 p.m. and wake up at 3:30 each day... maybe that's a problem. Also hunger is not where I'd like it.... I am not nearly hungry enough and I'm sure everyone knows what it's like to have to force food down (IT SUCKS!) Great sides are tremendous strength INCREASE! Love it.

EDIT: one more thing and this is probably from the combined items I am running.... t3 (60mcg ed) tren ace 50mg ed I am processing my food and digesting MUCH faster than normal which causes me to wake up in the middle of my sleep to have bowel movements ( a little bit annoying but I guess it's telling me my gear and t3 is working eh?)

[powerliftmike]

Trenbolones are notorious for disturbing the sleep cycle. Night sweats and insomnia are common with tren, which of course sleep deprivation can mess up all aspects of daily life including training. Tren is also known to suppress appetite, which it did with me. Eating is a job in itself. Some try to add equipoise to counter this, as eq generally raises the appetite a bit. T3 however should send you appetite sky high.

Get a blood pressure monitor at Walmart or some pharmacy. Headaches can be from high blood pressure, which tren and anadrol can both greatly elevate.

[Cuz]

day 1... 50mg a.m.
day 2 80mg a.m. (preworkout)
day 3 80mg a.m. (preworkout)
day 4 40mg a.m. 40mg p.m. 8 hour split
day 5 40mg a.m. 40mg p.m. 8 hour split


Sides so far noticed... headaches for sure... especially the 2 days I did 80mg all in one dose. Also lately I've been SO tired.... Like really tired. I sleep around 8-9 p.m. and wake up at 3:30 each day... maybe that's a problem. Also hunger is not where I'd like it.... I am not nearly hungry enough and I'm sure everyone knows what it's like to have to force food down (IT SUCKS!) Great sides are tremendous strength INCREASE! Love it.

EDIT: one more thing and this is probably from the combined items I am running.... t3 (60mcg ed) tren ace 50mg ed I am processing my food and digesting MUCH faster than normal which causes me to wake up in the middle of my sleep to have bowel movements ( a little bit annoying but I guess it's telling me my gear and t3 is working eh?)

Anadrol is notorious for headaches. Lethargy, tiredness, zoning out all from the drol brother

[tripmachine]

Hey guys a couple more sides (sexual sides) Seriously these are pretty strong sexual sides so it seems... First my boner gets REALLY HARD a lot of the time. I wake up at 3-4 a.m. with wood that if isn't taken care of will NEVER go away. THEN number 2 side... Sensitivity seems lower or more numb with my penis... side 3 when I finally finish.... I honestly feel like I'm about to have a LEGIT heart attack, I kid you not... I take a breath and then even feel my heart make a semi painful squeeze or weird almost heart attack pain come on.... (never had one before but I imagine it's something like that that progressively worsens) When I am having sex with my lady.... I DRIP sweat like no other ALL over. Also it takes A TON of physical output on my end to cum while having sex..... I like some sides but I don't like to have to put out so much energy to cum...

[HoldMyBeer]

Hey guys a couple more sides (sexual sides) Seriously these are pretty strong sexual sides so it seems... First my boner gets REALLY HARD a lot of the time. I wake up at 3-4 a.m. with wood that if isn't taken care of will NEVER go away. THEN number 2 side... Sensitivity seems lower or more numb with my penis... side 3 when I finally finish.... I honestly feel like I'm about to have a LEGIT heart attack, I kid you not... I take a breath and then even feel my heart make a semi painful squeeze or weird almost heart attack pain come on.... (never had one before but I imagine it's something like that that progressively worsens) When I am having sex with my lady.... I DRIP sweat like no other ALL over. Also it takes A TON of physical output on my end to cum while having sex..... I like some sides but I don't like to have to put out so much energy to cum...

Been there. Usually when I'm running a lot of androgens. Specifically I was running test primo and (sdrol/tren mix)
The dizziness I believe was from high RBC
Careful w that. Get some bloodwork and check your numbers

[tripmachine]

Been there. Usually when I'm running a lot of androgens. Specifically I was running test primo and (sdrol/tren mix)
The dizziness I believe was from high RBC
Careful w that. Get some bloodwork and check your numbers

Thanks for the reply.... I have about 20 more days on tren / mast. I just switched from prop (still on prop for 8 more days) to enanthate... I guess for the next 20 or so + days I'll continue to have the same similar sexual sides... I guess I'll go read up about too much RBC count but also maybe you could help explain? Extra RBC from androgens.... too many RBC does what to someone? Thanks for chiming in!

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Thanks for the reply.... I have about 20 more days on tren / mast. I just switched from prop (still on prop for 8 more days) to enanthate... I guess for the next 20 or so + days I'll continue to have the same similar sexual sides... I guess I'll go read up about too much RBC count but also maybe you could help explain? Extra RBC from androgens.... too many RBC does what to someone? Thanks for chiming in!

Dizziness can also be high blood pressure. Good idea to buy a blood pressure cuff and monitor that.

Try throwing 5-10mg a day of cialis in there. Might help you out a bit.

[tripmachine]

Dizziness can also be high blood pressure. Good idea to buy a blood pressure cuff and monitor that.

Try throwing 5-10mg a day of cialis in there. Might help you out a bit.

I have viagra.... will that be sufficient? or cialis for certain reasons? I took viagra a few nights ago and I was red faced the whole night

[HoldMyBeer]

For me the high androgens cause the sexual issues.
Lots of gear causes the RBC issues
High RBC -> high hematocrit -> high blood pressure (to my knowledge)

[powerliftmike]

For me the high androgens cause the sexual issues.
Lots of gear causes the RBC issues
High RBC -> high hematocrit -> high blood pressure (to my knowledge)

Elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit thicken the blood but dont directly affect blood pressure. It is believed thick blood can increased thrombic events like blood clots and stroke risk. Androgens can cause some vasoconstriction which can raise blood pressure as well as any additional edema/fluid retention via estrogens or other means.

[GearHeaded]

Elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit thicken the blood but dont directly affect blood pressure. It is believed thick blood can increased thrombic events like blood clots and stroke risk. Androgens can cause some vasoconstriction which can raise blood pressure as well as any additional edema/fluid retention via estrogens or other means.

I'll just add to this that elevated Hemoglobin/Hematocrit from gear use is usually not that concerning at all (its actually a positive side effects of PEDs) unless it is accompanied by elevated (above normal) blood Platelet count as well .
No you don't need to go run out and donate blood and jump off your cycle just cause your Hemo was 51 , as long as your blood platelet count was normal.

some side notes -
IF you start getting lethargic run down and tired while on cycle and cardio goes to crap, and you find out your hematocrit is elevated, and you think that that is causing the issue. your likely wrong. endurance athletes will get their hematocrit levels as high as 60 to increase Vo2 max, cardio, and performance.
your issues are likely from retention of water, slight cardiac or pulmonary edema, too much mineral retention, etc.. in which case losing water weight is the fastest fix for this, NOT donating blood (though both can help).. <-- and its at this point blood pressure is likely elevated as well

[GearHeaded]

a professional cyclist who has a hematocrit of 60 ,, has great cardio and no high blood pressure

a bod builder with only mildly elevated hematocrit of say 51 ,, has shit for cardio and super high blood pressure and he thinks its the high hemo causing the issue.

well why wouldn't the cyclist have even more of an issue with off the charts high hemo ?
because its not the hematocrit .

a cyclist uses non retentive drugs to get super high hematocrit (like EPO to increase Erythropoietin) . a body builder does use retentive compounds.
its the over "retention" of nutrients, minerals, and water thats the issue, not the hematocrit .

[Kyle1337]

I used to be a big believer in donating blood which helped my lethargy, turns out is was the excess water making me a lethargic POS. Soon as I did a 2 week water cut I felt amazing. Had bloods done the other day - (typically immediately go donate after seeing these levels)

Red blood cells 6.344 M/CUMM
Hemoglobin 17.3 G/DL
Hemotocrit 58.4%

Feeling great!

[HoldMyBeer]

I'll just add to this that elevated Hemoglobin/Hematocrit from gear use is usually not that concerning at all (its actually a positive side effects of PEDs) unless it is accompanied by elevated (above normal) blood Platelet count as well .
No you don't need to go run out and donate blood and jump off your cycle just cause your Hemo was 51 , as long as your blood platelet count was normal.

some side notes -
IF you start getting lethargic run down and tired while on cycle and cardio goes to crap, and you find out your hematocrit is elevated, and you think that that is causing the issue. your likely wrong. endurance athletes will get their hematocrit levels as high as 60 to increase Vo2 max, cardio, and performance.
your issues are likely from retention of water, slight cardiac or pulmonary edema, too much mineral retention, etc.. in which case losing water weight is the fastest fix for this, NOT donating blood (though both can help).. .

If a cycle (or otherwise) is causing water/mineral retention, how do you lose it? Even if you were able to sweat it out, wouldn't you just retain it again shortly after?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

If a cycle (or otherwise) is causing water/mineral retention, how do you lose it? Even if you were able to sweat it out, wouldn't you just retain it again shortly after?

low dose Tren seems to work well against this

[GearHeaded]

If a cycle (or otherwise) is causing water/mineral retention, how do you lose it? Even if you were able to sweat it out, wouldn't you just retain it again shortly after?

DRUGS of course lol .. there are prescription drugs that specifically do this . believe me , a top tier bodybuilder is taking more drugs then just AAS in his protocol

edit - I'm not going to give the info out in a public forum . but YES you can run retentive compounds for weeks on end and get full as a house and just use other drugs when needed to take care of problems when they arise. its very common.. but again I'm not going to give it out cause its more dangerous then insulin or anything else, and I know of a couple people that died just this year because they made mistakes with these things

[GearHeaded]

actually I change my mind.. its better to just give info (but not necessarily protocols) and let people learn how this stuff can work..

here is an example of DEATH -- your taking retentive based compounds and your retaining a ton of nutrients and minerals and water . you know you need to shed some of that and some water weight so you decide to take a potassium sparing diuretic (cause somewhere 'bro science' bullshit you heard that potassium sparing diuretics are safer).. now you take that and end up pissing a ton for the next 12 hours. you feel good. then you decide to go have a "cheat meal" because heck your bulking anyways.. hamburger, fries, etc.. and a ton of potassium rich carbs.

the next thing you know your going into cardiac arrest because of hyperkalemia (high blood potassium) . the drug you took helped strip you of water weight and made you feel better, but left a ton of potassium behind. then you take in foods that contain high potassium as well. potassium is deadly at high levels and has killed tons of people in bodybuilding (people that compete end up dead 1-2 days after the competition because of this.. thats a fact your don't hear about)

thats just one example of many I could give..

certain Drugs are used a lot for certain reasons.. but by golly you better have a coach or someone that knows what they are doing by your side.

the simple thing of the example above is instead of using a potassium sparing diuretic like aldactone for that situation , using a potassium depletion diuretic like Lasix would been a much better option .
and if you did go into hyperaklemia having something like fast acting insulin around (humalog) or injectible Lasix is a good idea to help get you out of that state before you die..


^ this is some complex and crazy shit. things I have to know as a good prep coach.. just figured I'd throw a few things out there without going into much detail to just get an idea of how some of this stuff works

[GearHeaded]

If a cycle (or otherwise) is causing water/mineral retention, how do you lose it? Even if you were able to sweat it out, wouldn't you just retain it again shortly after?

having said all that .. IF you know your shit . you can take drugs and fix a lot of issues pretty easily (just don't die)

[i_SLAM_cougars]

now you take that and end up pissing a ton for the next 12 hours.

This is pretty much how my body reacts to introducing 25mg of Tren Ace a day on top of a whole bunch of test and a couple other compounds that make me retain water. Anything to be concerned about there as far as electrolyte balance or anything?

[GearHeaded]

I'm going to explain this further just cause now I know I've opened pandoras box..

IF , for example, your going into a competition and you going into "peak week" flat and you know you really need to load up on retentive based things to get your fullness, but at the same time you don't want to retain a bunch of water , and you end up taking a bunch of potassium sparing diuretic. shed the water, carb load, get full, muscle cells have lots of nutrients in them , etc.. and your serum levels of potassium then sky rocket , its likely you can go into cardiac arrest.
this has happened over and over again and killed many a bodybuilder..

shedding water only (without potassium) can be dangerous especially when you load back up on potassium.

whats the anedote ?

well , I'll first say whats NOT the anecdote. your going into shock and cardiac arrest just after your bodybuilding show. paramedics show up and first thing that comes to mind is that your totally dehydrated (as bodybuilders dehydrate to compete) and so first things first is give an electrolyte and potassium rich IV . well come on people (paramedics) this dude is dying of potassium over dose in the first place and your thought is to give this dehydrated bodybuilder a potassium rich IV (they end up killing you within 5 minutes)..

on the other hand I stop by , "Mr Insuin man" and shoot you up with 30iu of humalog insulin .. paramedics are probably like WTF,. then shoot him up with even more diuretics , but like lasix which are potassium depleting diuretics, and guess what . you live.

two of the supposed most dangerous drugs in bodybuilding , "insulin and injectible lasix" , just saved your damn life when paramedics would of killed you..


my first born son is in nursing school right now , this kid is going to learn the hard facts they don't teach you in the text books

[GearHeaded]

I should quickly explain the insulin thing .. cells have a "potassium pump". when insulin drives glucose into cells potassium is taken out of the blood stream to accomplish this. exogenous insuilin will lower blood serum levels of potassium

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having said all that bullshit rant .. you all can also die of hypokalemia , having too LOW blood potassium (start cramping and eventually your heart, a muscle, also cramps and you die).. the same class of drugs, diuretics, that are potassium stripping can cause this.
the anecdote is much easier to come by though if this happens