Guns and Ammo Thread

[Beetlegeuse]

... Again that sound of a racked shotgun can be all the deterrent you need....

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.

Again guys, my dilemma is I can’t let a stray bullet exit our house, it will penetrate a neighbors....

Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

[SampsonandDelilah]

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.




Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

Lots of logic here and I’m certainly not advocating a pump shotgun for home defense based solely off of that sound. However if you can avoid a gun battle and scare off a would be intruder simply by making a distinct noise, I’m all for it. Truth be told, I’m too tired and you’re too smart to try and push my suggestions.
What I can’t look past though is the argument that a 12 gauge pump shotgun in all if it’s beautiful simplicities isn’t an ideal home defense weapon. Also, just because a bad guy doesn’t give a Philadelphia flying fuck about collateral damage doesn’t mean we have to stoop to that level.

And if you can have a weapon that you deem cosmetically appealingly while still “getting the job done” I just don’t see any harm in that.

I personally own more firearms than I care to admit and I definitely have my favorites. The characteristics that determine my “favs” are based on function, fit and fashion. Some I consider works or art. My G19 sure ain’t as pretty as my Colt 1911, but I’m taking the Glock every time based on my faith in it performing its duty reliably every time.

You’re the last guy I feel like debating Beetle, you’re sharp as razor, witty as hell, know you’re shit and have my utmost respect.

Carry on...

Lots of good choices Prox and at the end of the day, it’s yours to make

[C27H40O3]

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.




Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

He probably means that if there is a possibly of scaring away an intruder with the racking of a slide, it might save you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and punitive damage judgements if you kill a guy and some DA wants to make an example of you by trying to send you to prison, and a tv lawyer calls the injured/dead guy’s family and convinces them to sue you for all you got and then some.

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