What Europeans think of American healthcare

[Hughinn]

That is exactly my point.

We already pay for insurance for:
the old
the disabled
the poor
the unemployed
the jailed
the military
and almost every single government employee. (teachers, policeman, garbagemen, politicians... they all get heavily subsidized if not free insurance.)

So who is paying the most...
The self employed.
Below them is the people working for private companies.

I pay $25,000/year for insurance plus a $6000/yr deductible.

What happens to my family if I have a bad year and only make $75,000?
I either spend every last penny on health insurance or...
I roll the dice and go without insurance.
One bad accident could then bankrupt me.


So we are punishing the self employed the most and rewarding the felon.

Daughter needs a surgery and daddy is middle class self employed... so sorry... maybe she should commit a crime.

It just doesn't make sense to me either.

I'm not asking for anything for free.

Understand that the government can't give someone something they didn't earn, without taking it from someone who did.

I don't have an issue paying for my own families healthcare. I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. Which is why it's so expensive for middle class paying customers. Like the self employed.

The war on the middle class continues, for the purpose of eliminating competition for the elite.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

It just doesn't make sense to me either.

I'm not asking for anything for free.

Understand that the government can't give someone something they didn't earn, without taking it from someone who did.

I don't have an issue paying for my own families healthcare. I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. Which is why it's so expensive for middle class paying customers. Like the self employed.

The war on the middle class continues, for the purpose of eliminating competition for the elite.

Neither am I.

I will pay more in taxes.

I am also perfectly fine paying taxes to help my fellow Americans.

I believe Amercians should help the less fortunate and also honor people's service to our great nation.

For instance, I have no problem paying taxes to give healthcare to the military and veterans for instance.

I find it telling that you don't think you should have to support the military.

Perhaps you would like to rephrase your thoughts.


I do not believe their is a war on the middle class.
While I don't think America is perfect... I think it is a great nation filled with mostly great people.
Is their corruption at the top?... sure... there is corruption at every level.

[Hughinn]

Neither am I.

I will pay more in taxes.

I am also perfectly fine paying taxes to help my fellow Americans.

I believe Amercians should help the less fortunate and also honor people's service to our great nation.

For instance, I have no problem paying taxes to give healthcare to the military and veterans for instance.

I find it telling that you don't think you should have to support the military.

Perhaps you would like to rephrase your thoughts.


I do not believe their is a war on the middle class.
While I don't think America is perfect... I think it is a great nation filled with mostly great people.
Is their corruption at the top?... sure... there is corruption at every level.

I didn't say anything about the military.

And I don't mind helping people who are struggling either.

But I refuse to help anybody that won't even try to help themselves. I can be honest when I say that if a man won't try to help himself, then I won't willing help him. That doesn't include the young or vulnerable that cannot help themselves.

I'm not asking for anything for free. And I don't want anything I can't get on my own.

My issue with it really isn't much different than yours. The healthcare system is too expensive and overregulated.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I don't know why I have to pay for mine and someone else's. .

I didn't say anything about the military.

And I don't mind helping people who are struggling either.

This is exactly why I asked you if you wanted to rephrase.

At first you said you don't know why you should pay for others.

Then you rephrased it to you don't mind paying for others.



Obviously you can see that those two statements can be viewed as contradictory.
It's not an attack.
I'm just pointing out that I didn't believe that you actually believed your first statement.
Thus I asked you to rephrase.

[Hughinn]

This is exactly why I asked you if you wanted to rephrase.

At first you said you don't know why you should pay for others.

Then you rephrased it to you don't mind paying for others.



Obviously you can see that those two statements can be viewed as contradictory.
It's not an attack.
I'm just pointing out that I didn't believe that you actually believed your first statement.
Thus I asked you to rephrase.

Which is why I clarified it. Irregardless, I don't want to pay for someone else who won't help themselves. And I don't like being forced to.

But, in principle as far as healthcare, I think everyone agrees what we have needs some fixing.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Which is why I clarified it. Irregardless, I don't want to pay for someone else who won't help themselves. And I don't like being forced to.

But, in principle as far as healthcare, I think everyone agrees what we have needs some fixing.

I agree with you. It wasn't an attack.

In the same way...
Mooseman made a statement earlier where he said everything the Government does they fuck up.
I pointed out that that statement makes it seem like he believes the police and military are all fucked up.
It's not an attack.

It's just a call to be more careful with wording.
Blanket statements are dangerous.

It is a Republican theme to say the government fucks up everything.
Well if that truly the case then the Republicans would be all for Defunding the Police.
Because hell, smaller government is better and the police are fucked up.
Might as well make them smaller.

So I was simply pointing out that a common argument against universal healthcare is that the government fucks everything up.
But the government doesn't fuck everything up in my opinion.

[lovbyts]

This is exactly why I asked you if you wanted to rephrase.

At first you said you don't know why you should pay for others.

Then you rephrased it to you don't mind paying for others.



Obviously you can see that those two statements can be viewed as contradictory.
It's not an attack.
I'm just pointing out that I didn't believe that you actually believed your first statement.
Thus I asked you to rephrase.

There is a big difference between You deciding who, when and how much to help others vs being Told who,l when and how much and finding out only pennies on the dollar they took from you actually went to whoever it was They decided to help.

When I buy sacks of rice or other food to help out friends and family in the Philippines who really don't have anything especially during this (cough cough) "pandemic" I know exactly where it went and who got it.

I use to have GOOD health insurance that was not very expensive. Yes it was company paid but not until we negotiated for it through the union and even went on strike a few times costing us a lot of money to get what we wanted and now everyone thinks its something that should just be given without working for it? Since Obamacare when into effect my out of pocket has gone from nearly zero to over $10K every year and my pay hasn't.

Sorry I disagree, not everyone deserves the same healthcare any more than not everyone deserves the same pay at most any job. Do more, get more. Minimum wage is for minimum work/effort. There are always exceptions to the rules and nothing is black and white.

IMO Every time government gets involved it will cost at least 10x more. Sure we need government to regulate a lot of things and even oversee but not actually run/fund it.