Dig Your Own Grave

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Yes. I suppose that’s the direction we can go. But many scientists have existed, and in time, have defined many things. Too many to even speak of in one conversation. That said, scientists are defining new things in space and time and molecules all the time. Even defined the beginning of earth.

I disagree with you here. Newton and Einstein simply observed something that was defined by someone/something else.

Just because Newton and Einstein were the first people to observe these things and to describe them, doesn't mean that they defined them. That's sort of like saying I designed the octopus because I was the first person to go down in a submarine and see one.

[META99]

I disagree with you here. Newton and Einstein simply observed something that was defined by someone/something else.

Just because Newton and Einstein were the first people to observe these things and to describe them, doesn't mean that they defined them. That's sort of like saying I designed the octopus because I was the first person to go down in a submarine and see one.

Ok, I’m not saying all the amazing things that the above scientists discovered or defined are suddenly there because they did discover them. Yes they were there before. That seems criminal to think that way. By defining things in math and science, such as astronomy, biology, dynamics and physics, we can apply those things to how life began on earth. And saying “oh well it’s because God did it”, doesn’t seem like a mindful approach to our existence. But I will say even Charles Darwin believed in God and he was the father of evolution. But I do get it, you can’t disprove that some “force” wasn’t there to start the whole thing. Your argument, if I understand, is saying who is to say god did mint out the gases and proteins in the universe to begin life”.
I don’t worship scientists. I do believe their work. I certainly would never worship Max Planck just because he discovered quantum physics. Quantum physics existed before but now we have something to call it. Now and However there also many people out there that believe we are all genetic descendente of the Bible’s Adam and Eve. Which I can’t even have that conversation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Test Monsterone]

Ok, I’m not saying all the amazing things that the above scientists discovered or defined are suddenly there because they did discover them. Yes they were there before. That seems criminal to think that way. By defining things in math and science, such as astronomy, biology, dynamics and physics, we can apply those things to how life began on earth. And saying “oh well it’s because God did it”, doesn’t seem like a mindful approach to our existence. But I will say even Charles Darwin believed in God and he was the father of evolution. But I do get it, you can’t disprove that some “force” wasn’t there to start the whole thing. Your argument, if I understand, is saying who is to say god did mint out the gases and proteins in the universe to begin life”.
I don’t worship scientists. I do believe their work. I certainly would never worship Max Planck just because he discovered quantum physics. Quantum physics existed before but now we have something to call it. Now and However there also many people out there that believe we are all genetic descendente of the Bible’s Adam and Eve. Which I can’t even have that conversation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Basically, if God did create the elements which make up the universe and fundamentals upon which science is based on, then we should look to scientists for the answers to how and why things work the way they do. Now if we're talking about spirituality, life after death, morality, etc... then religion can fill that in for those who want to believe it. They are two distinct things, for the most part. '

My problem is when people put religion over science when discussing physical phenomena. Increase in tornadoes... God's mad at us - that sort of thing. There's a scientific explanation for everything happening around us. Whether a higher power put these things in motion during the creation of the universe (as we know it) or if that power is still influencing things as we speak, that's something we will never know.

[META99]

Basically, if God did create the elements which make up the universe and fundamentals upon which science is based on, then we should look to scientists for the answers to how and why things work the way they do. Now if we're talking about spirituality, life after death, morality, etc... then religion can fill that in for those who want to believe it. They are two distinct things, for the most part. '

My problem is when people put religion over science when discussing physical phenomena. Increase in tornadoes... God's mad at us - that sort of thing. There's a scientific explanation for everything happening around us. Whether a higher power put these things in motion during the creation of the universe (as we know it) or if that power is still influencing things as we speak, that's something we will never know.

Yes. Very true. They are two distinct things.
Many people don’t allow Conversations about science and religion to mingle together.

This kind of conversation tends to ultimately come down to the question of “what started everything”. On my side, and with what I’ve studied, and what I believe, is that a random event is what sparked a reaction that caused what we call the universe to begin. And ultimately earth. I get your point that it is difficult to deny a “force” driving the beginning. In my mind it is conceivable. But ultimately in my scientific brain... unbelievable.

Test Monsterone I would like to tell you that I have enjoyed our back and forth. Thank you for not making this discussion about religion.

Like I mentioned before, even Charles Darwin, likely hated by many religious affiliations, has been known to declare that there is something greater than all of us and the universe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I don’t worship scientists. I do believe their work. I certainly would never worship Max Planck just because he discovered quantum physics.

You would not worship a prophet? And, despite his prophecy -- which you do believe in -- you would not raise him above any other person? His name would not be exalted?

Some people think that the solution to all our problems in the world is stuff like renewable energy and a healthy, sustainable, conservationalistic lifestyle. If that were true then all the vegan yoga practitioners who re-use their shopping bags would be nice people -- but some are bad to the bone.

If I were going to worship any mortal person (dead or alive) then it certainly would not be for a scientific discovery. However if somebody can come up with a choreographed dance routine that cures all depression and anxiety within 140 seconds then I at least think we should name a theatre after that person, and perhaps host a monthly Open MIC night at that theatre.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I found a blank grave in a graveyard in my town. There's a marble boundary around it, and a marble headstone, and there's no inscription on the headstone. There isn't even a small cross or wooden plaque with the person's name on it. I think somebody might actually have pre-purchased their own grave.

[almostgone]

I found a blank grave in a graveyard in my town. There's a marble boundary around it, and a marble headstone, and there's no inscription on the headstone. There isn't even a small cross or wooden plaque with the person's name on it. I think somebody might actually have pre-purchased their own grave.

My Mom did.

[wango]

You know FC, one of my favorite all time jobs I’ve had, is working in a cemetery for a few summers during break. Huge, old place in Chicago with crypts and massive monuments.

One thing that always struck me and made me sad was seeing a dual grave sight for a man and wife. One is already dead and buried long ago. On the joint headstone is the deceased & the other name with the birth date only. It was well past the time they should have died. I often wondered if the spouse is forever lonely and missing a piece of their soul because their husband/wife never were buried next to them just as they had one day intended. Still effects me to this day.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

You know FC, one of my favorite all time jobs I’ve had, is working in a cemetery for a few summers during break. Huge, old place in Chicago with crypts and massive monuments.

One thing that always struck me and made me sad was seeing a dual grave sight for a man and wife. One is already dead and buried long ago. On the joint headstone is the deceased & the other name with the birth date only. It was well past the time they should have died. I often wondered if the spouse is forever lonely and missing a piece of their soul because their husband/wife never were buried next to them just as they had one day intended. Still effects me to this day.

Let me see if I understand correctly. Let's say for example you've got a couple, and both of them were born in 1904, and one of them died in 1981, and so now it's the year 2021 so both of them should definitely be dead and buried beside each other, however the second person is buried somewhere else. So perhaps the second person re-married and is buried beside their second spouse?

You've just made me realise something. I had already considered that if I get married, I'll make it clear to my spouse that she is to continue her life and simply just get on with things when I die. It hadn't crossed my mind what to do about our grave. Perhaps I should tell her that she if she re-marries after my death then she should be buried in her second husband/wife's plot. (Yes she'll probably turn lesbian after I did).

[Fluidic Kimbo]

My Mom did.

Are you saying that she only purchased the burial plot (i.e. just a simple rectangle of grass), or are you saying that she bought the plot and also put up a headstone and a boundary around it?

I'm actually curious to ask the grounds keeper of the cemetery in my town why that particular grave has a blank headstone. I've only ever seen a totally blank headstone once in my life (i.e this one I'm talking about in my town).

[wango]

Let me see if I understand correctly. Let's say for example you've got a couple, and both of them were born in 1904, and one of them died in 1981, and so now it's the year 2021 so both of them should definitely be dead and buried beside each other, however the second person is buried somewhere else. So perhaps the second person re-married and is buried beside their second spouse?

You've just made me realise something. I had already considered that if I get married, I'll make it clear to my spouse that she is to continue her life and simply just get on with things when I die. It hadn't crossed my mind what to do about our grave. Perhaps I should tell her that she if she re-marries after my death then she should be buried in her second husband/wife's plot. (Yes she'll probably turn lesbian after I did).

I think the fact that we have been together 35+ years and pretty definitely don’t see ourselves with anyone else after one of us dies, our living will will be carried out. Ashes combined with those of our cat and spread beneath our favorite tree in our backyard. At this stage one of our good friend’s sons is likely to inherit most everything. He’s a great kid and we’ve watched him grow up. Raised right and a great young man.

[almostgone]

Are you saying that she only purchased the burial plot (i.e. just a simple rectangle of grass), or are you saying that she bought the plot and also put up a headstone and a boundary around it?

I'm actually curious to ask the grounds keeper of the cemetery in my town why that particular grave has a blank headstone. I've only ever seen a totally blank headstone once in my life (i.e this one I'm talking about in my town).

The plot, headstone w/name and birthdate. When she passed a bronze plate with the date of her death was affixed.

I found her dead on the floor when I went to check on her after I got off of work one morning. I always checked on her a few times on the days she didn't have dialysis and would get her to to and from dialysis, fix a meal for her,etc. She refused to move in with the wife and I; my Mom was independent and stubborn, but I respect her for it.

Anyway, I handled the casket and funeral arrangements while my wife picked out clothes for my Mom to be buried in ( my wife knew which colors were my Mom's favorite.

[GirlyGymRat]

My Mom did.

As has mine....even pre paid for funeral and burial.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Today I went looking for an old Quaker grave yard. I found it. Some of them died in the 1600's. I've taken a peculiar kind of inner peace home with me from that grave yard. Might go out there with my tent some night.

[Honkey_Kong]

As has mine....even pre paid for funeral and burial.

Yeah, my parents both have prepaid for all that stuff. It actually makes a lot of sense, when you think about it. Everybody is going to eventually pass and the burial/funeral is a massive expense to burden your loved ones with. Why not take care of it in advance, so they don't have to worry about that AND get locked in at a cheaper rate?

[almostgone]

Today I went looking for an old Quaker grave yard. I found it. Some of them died in the 1600's. I've taken a peculiar kind of inner peace home with me from that grave yard. Might go out there with my tent some night.

Here in the South, you will find lots of old family cemeteries that are out in the middle of nowhere that most wouldn't recognize unless you're very familiar with the history of the area.

I've found several when out walking in the woods. You'll see the odd sign or two....an area of dogwood trees all by themselves, sunken areas (graves) with plain rocks for headstones, a few actual chiseled headstones ( usually misspelled),

I haven't found many that date quite as early as what you've found. The earliest was a French Huguenot family cemetery from the early 1700s. Whenever I find one on public land, I always contact the DNR, a couple of the local deputies I've known since high school, and the historical society for that area.
It helps keeps idiots from desecrating and robbing the graves ( sad to say, but it does happen, even in rural SC.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Today I made a 9-minute phone call to Michigan, USA to the family who erected a monument stone in the Quaker graveyard in Northern Ireland.

I think this Sunday I will attend a Quaker meeting for the first time.

[almostgone]

Today I made a 9-minute phone call to Michigan, USA to the family who erected a monument stone in the Quaker graveyard in Northern Ireland.

I think this Sunday I will attend a Quaker meeting for the first time.

Pretty cool, K-man!

[Honkey_Kong]

Today I made a 9-minute phone call to Michigan, USA to the family who erected a monument stone in the Quaker graveyard in Northern Ireland.

I think this Sunday I will attend a Quaker meeting for the first time.

So what did you say to this family?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

So what did you say to this family?

Told them I found the old Quakers graveyard in N. Ireland, with people who were born in the 1600s.

There are some very old headstones in that graveyard however I couldn't find any of the guys who died in the very early 1700s. So I asked them whatever happened to the headstones. They told me that the Quakers back then really always try to keep everything simple and minimalist, so typically they just put a plaque with the person's initials over the place where they were buried.

And then for a little while we talked about what happens at Quaker meetings, and I said I might go to one near where I live.

[almostgone]

Interesting! Please share the experience if you do go.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I found two more Quaker graveyards today. One of them was from the 1800s and so there were small square headstones lying flat on the ground. They could really do with being sand-blasted. I might ask the Quakers if they'd let me sand-blast the entire cemetery.

The older graveyard from the 1600s had a wall around it and a gate. Before you entered in through the gate, there was a plaque to the left listing the names of all the people who were buried in there along with the year they were buried. But inside the graveyard, it was just a field of green grass. As you walked along you could feel the humps from where each person was buried.

Having seen a few very old graveyards in the past few weeks, I must say that the best material for a headstone is definitely purple slate. All the purple slate headstones are in perfect condition after hundreds of years. Best to just engrave the name on it without any colouring and without any filling. I'm tempted to make my own purple slate headstone before I die. The headstones that had lead filling are in terrible condition. Even I saw one white headstone from 2005 and it was in way worse condition than the purple slate from the 1800s.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I went to the Quakers this morning. They like sitting in silence for an hour with brief infrequent interruptions to read a psalm or tell an anecdote. I found them more similar to a Buddhist meditation meeting than any other Christian group.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I was so affected by a real life story today that I accidentally drank boiled water.

There's a story currently in the news here in Europe. A girl aged 21 killed herself. She hanged herself and then spent a few days in intensive care before dying.

But then 6 months later, after she was buried, a man was charged with her murder. The allegation is that he strangled her and then set up a rope to make it look like suicidal hanging.

Imagine being a family member or close friend of the deceased... trying for 6 months to accept that she ended her own life... only to find out that she was murdered.

I went out for a long drive today and drove past the cemetery where she was buried. I parked and went in to take a look at her grave... the thought that there was a 21yr old girl buried there who everyone thought killed herself when actually she was murdered.

I drove back to my own town and I wasn't in a balanced frame of mind. Seeing that girl's grave definitely affected me. I decided that I should park my car and go walk around for a while til the shock wore off. I walked into a convenience store where I used the self-service beverage counter -- I made myself a cup of tea, I was very absent-minded and forgot to put milk in it. I took a gulp from it and swallowed it, and it was 2 or 3 seconds later that I realised that I just drank 194 - 212 degree F water. Normally I would scream and spit out water that hot. In that frame of mind, it just felt a bit fizzily, and it was only after 2 or 3 seconds of fizziliness that I thought about the temperature.

My tongue and my stomach are a little sore. It's been a few hours though and I'm not writhing in pain so I don't think I did serious damage. If I scalded myself badly I'd now all about it by now.

[almostgone]

^^^ Lucky you didn't at least get some second degree burns!!

[Honkey_Kong]

Kimbo, it's time to just switch to iced tea. Can't burn yourself with a glass of that.