Disgrace Your Friend's Memory?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

And this (last paragraph) is where the two of us would disagree. Acting desperately and robbing/harming others is not noble and forgivable. Also disagree about integrity.

Let's say you're an employer and you have $7,055,000 in your bank account, and one day you check your account balance to see you only have $6,912,000. And so you investigate and find that your #1 employee who's been with you for 17 years has taken the money. And so you confront him about it when he's by himself sitting eating lunch, and he tells you that his 4yr old daughter needed life-saving treatment -- he says he knew he'd get caught. So you say to him, 'Why didn't you just ask me for the money?', and he replies 'Because you might have said no and then made sure I couldn't take it -- if I just took it then I had some time before you'd notice'.

I would make sure that my #1 employee doesn't have access to any more of my money, but I'm not so sure I'd penalise him for doing something that I think is noble and which doesn't require forgiveness.

I would not admire a person for prioritising their integrity and their relationship with their employer of 17 years over the life-saving treatmeant of their 4yr old daughter -- my appraisal of such behaviour would be that they have a deep misunderstanding of the human condition. Money doesn't matter. Jobs don't matter. Integrity and dignity are to be maintained however there are mitigating circumstances in these lives we live. I don't think a chip has been taken out of my #1 employee's integrity or dignity -- if anything, he has demonstrated the right values. Perhaps he should be promoted to director with those values.

[wango]

Let's say you're an employer and you have $7,055,000 in your bank account, and one day you check your account balance to see you only have $6,912,000. And so you investigate and find that your #1 employee who's been with you for 17 years has taken the money. And so you confront him about it when he's by himself sitting eating lunch, and he tells you that his 4yr old daughter needed life-saving treatment -- he says he knew he'd get caught. So you say to him, 'Why didn't you just ask me for the money?', and he replies 'Because you might have said no and then made sure I couldn't take it -- if I just took it then I had some time before you'd notice'.

I would make sure that my #1 employee doesn't have access to any more of my money, but I'm not so sure I'd penalise him for doing something that I think is noble and which doesn't require forgiveness.

I would not admire a person for prioritising their integrity and their relationship with their employer of 17 years over the life-saving treatmeant of their 4yr old daughter -- my appraisal of such behaviour would be that they have a deep misunderstanding of the human condition. Money doesn't matter. Jobs don't matter. Integrity and dignity are to be maintained however there are mitigating circumstances in these lives we live. I don't think a chip has been taken out of my #1 employee's integrity or dignity -- if anything, he has demonstrated the right values. Perhaps he should be promoted to director with those values.

I hear what you are saying FK, but I really do see things from a different perspective. My favorite division of philosophy is morals & ethics and one thing you realize pretty quick is that there are really no universally accepted “rules for life”.

Regarding integrity, that’s a term that’s everyone could view differently. I think that if you feel that you or others have integrity, it’s because you or they are following views that you or they personally agree upon.

I understand the need for desperate measures to help a 4 year old daughter, however breaking established laws that you are expected to follow where you have chosen to live, is not acceptable. To me as tragic as the loss of a life is, it once again is a black and white issue to me. And it’s not like I’m being a martyr, it’s just how I personally see things. I’m not judging you or others if they see things differently. When you start messing around with the gray area, it’s when everyone can’t decide which gray is acceptable and which isn’t.

As an employer of someone for that long and that particular employee is my #1, I would be so devastated that employee couldn’t trust me as a friend to ask for help in the first place. I would give the guy as much money as I could afford, but honestly would be looking at myself and questioning how I could think of this person as my #1 employee for so long and how he wouldn’t ask me first.

[ghettoboyd]

I hear what you are saying FK, but I really do see things from a different perspective. My favorite division of philosophy is morals & ethics and one thing you realize pretty quick is that there are really no universally accepted “rules for life”.

Regarding integrity, that’s a term that’s everyone could view differently. I think that if you feel that you or others have integrity, it’s because you or they are following views that you or they personally agree upon.

I understand the need for desperate measures to help a 4 year old daughter, however breaking established laws that you are expected to follow where you have chosen to live, is not acceptable. To me as tragic as the loss of a life is, it once again is a black and white issue to me. And it’s not like I’m being a martyr, it’s just how I personally see things. I’m not judging you or others if they see things differently. When you start messing around with the gray area, it’s when everyone can’t decide which gray is acceptable and which isn’t.

As an employer of someone for that long and that particular employee is my #1, I would be so devastated that employee couldn’t trust me as a friend to ask for help in the first place. I would give the guy as much money as I could afford, but honestly would be looking at myself and questioning how I could think of this person as my #1 employee for so long and how he wouldn’t ask me first.

pride wango some people just can’t get past it to ask hence the desperate measures taken but to me when your family is involved I’d make the ultimate sacrifice whatever that may be to save anyone in my family especially my daughter...just saying

[wango]

pride wango some people just can’t get past it to ask hence the desperate measures taken but to me when your family is involved I’d make the ultimate sacrifice whatever that may be to save anyone in my family especially my daughter...just saying

Agreed about pride, absolutely. But I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times. I won’t have a gun in the house if in our defense, one of my stray bullets enters a neighbors home and hurts a neighbor. My wife is actually firmer on that point than myself. Just us though. We don’t have kids for the record. Respect your point of view completely.

To FK, again, odd topic perhaps for a forum like this - but it’s great food for thought.

[Honkey_Kong]

Agreed about pride, absolutely. But I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times. I won’t have a gun in the house if in our defense, one of my stray bullets enters a neighbors home and hurts a neighbor. My wife is actually firmer on that point than myself. Just us though. We don’t have kids for the record. Respect your point of view completely.

To FK, again, odd topic perhaps for a forum like this - but it’s great food for thought.

If it was a matter of life and death, I'd steal for my wife and kids.... Well maybe not the wife, but definitely the kids. Imagine how you'd feel knowing that you could've done something to keep them alive. Sure stealing is wrong, but under a circumstance like that it's justifiable and I'd be willing to spend the time in jail afterwards for that. In fact, I'd think I was the biggest piece of schitte if I didn't in that case.

Mind you I don't have a wife or kids... This is all a thought exercise.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

ABut I wouldn’t let my pride to allow me to break a law or steal, just me. Again not passing judgement or saying I’m right or wrong about desperate times.

If I was a dead child transitioning into the afterlife... walking in through the pearly gates to the admittance desk, and the guy on the desk is like "By the way your father only had to steal $100,000 from his boss for your treatment, but he didn't and so now you're dead and that's why you're here". And I would be like, "Well what does it mean now that he didn't steal the money?", and the guy would be like, "Well your dad gets to keep his dignity and integrity, but you've lost your future -- your hopes and dreams and aspirations and hobbies are all now meaningless because you're dead -- but your father can lift his head high when he walks down the street". I'd be like "Well that doesn't sound very fair... I mean he gets to continue his life and have pride in himself, but I have nothing, I've lost my life, I'm dead.", and the guy would be like "Yeah I know, your father's a degenerate prick -- but don't worry we have him lined up to have a stroke.".

[wango]

If I was a dead child transitioning into the afterlife... walking in through the pearly gates to the admittance desk, and the guy on the desk is like "By the way your father only had to steal $100,000 from his boss for your treatment, but he didn't and so now you're dead and that's why you're here". And I would be like, "Well what does it mean now that he didn't steal the money?", and the guy would be like, "Well your dad gets to keep his dignity and integrity, but you've lost your future -- your hopes and dreams and aspirations and hobbies are all now meaningless because you're dead -- but your father can lift his head high when he walks down the street". I'd be like "Well that doesn't sound very fair... I mean he gets to continue his life and have pride in himself, but I have nothing, I've lost my life, I'm dead.", and the guy would be like "Yeah I know, your father's a degenerate prick -- but don't worry we have him lined up to have a stroke.".

You are correct, you’re situation that you posted included a child & I don’t have nor wanted the experience of that. So my response really didn’t fit your post.