Deep talk: The dilemma of choosing one girl over many? or man?

[Test Monsterone]

That’s a personal choice and I don’t judge based on that being a requirement for you to date. I guess my question is I don’t see how one can say because someone has had sex with multiple people while not exclusive with someone, that they would inherently be predisposed to cheat once in a committed relationship. I think that is connecting dots that don’t necessarily have any relation to each other. One would in essence be judging level of commitment based on a time in their life they are not in a commitment.

Inertia. An object moving in a given direction has the tendency to keep moving in that direction (that’s what I remember from school anyhow). If you are used to a certain lifestyle it will be hard to change trajectory. Men and women are not the same. Women are more selective with their partners because they produce 1 egg per month, can get pregnant, and they must choose wisely to ensure the survival of their offspring. Evolution. Men have a drive to impregnate multiple women in order to ensure the passing of their genes to offspring. Women enjoy sex, but most women settle with one man once they find one they desire, whereas men would still fuck other, even less attractive females, if there were no consequences. If a woman behaves like a man and has indiscriminate sex and doesn’t choose a partner for long-term commitment, that’s a red flag for most men. My mom wasn’t like that. My grandmothers weren’t like that. None of the women in my family were like that, therefore I don’t want that.

[Swilderbeast]

Inertia. An object moving in a given direction has the tendency to keep moving in that direction (that’s what I remember from school anyhow). If you are used to a certain lifestyle it will be hard to change trajectory. Men and women are not the same. Women are more selective with their partners because they produce 1 egg per month, can get pregnant, and they must choose wisely to ensure the survival of their offspring. Evolution. Men have a drive to impregnate multiple women in order to ensure the passing of their genes to offspring. Women enjoy sex, but most women settle with one man once they find one they desire, whereas men would still fuck other, even less attractive females, if there were no consequences. If a woman behaves like a man and has indiscriminate sex and doesn’t choose a partner for long-term commitment, that’s a red flag for most men. My mom wasn’t like that. My grandmothers weren’t like that. None of the women in my family were like that, therefore I don’t want that.

I like the analogy with inertia I get what you are saying but inertia does not apply to human decision making abilities. So I argue that you are making too broad of a statement regarding all women or even men in this case with that analogy.

As for boiling down men and womens desires for sexual gratification to evolutionary principals completely disregards “choice”. Women can have sex because it feels good and because they enjoy it. To say a woman only has sex to reproduce then why have sex once they’ve chosen to stop having kids? If a woman has her tubes tied does she stop desiring sex? Or after a hysterectomy? No absolutely not.

I don’t disagree most men would find that to be a red flag. I personally believe that’s more based on ego than rational thinking. It’s fair to question if someone would stay true in a monogamous relationship but whether someone has a lot of partners or not is not a predisposition to how likely they are to cheat. Imagine you flip a coin 100 times and it lands in heads 100 times, the next time you flip that coin your chances of it landing on tails is still 50%. I say that to say this, you should give someone the chance to prove themselves and not judge a book by it’s cover.

[Test Monsterone]

I like the analogy with inertia I get what you are saying but inertia does not apply to human decision making abilities. So I argue that you are making too broad of a statement regarding all women or even men in this case with that analogy.

As for boiling down men and womens desires for sexual gratification to evolutionary principals completely disregards “choice”. Women can have sex because it feels good and because they enjoy it. To say a woman only has sex to reproduce then why have sex once they’ve chosen to stop having kids? If a woman has her tubes tied does she stop desiring sex? Or after a hysterectomy? No absolutely not.

I don’t disagree most men would find that to be a red flag. I personally believe that’s more based on ego than rational thinking. It’s fair to question if someone would stay true in a monogamous relationship but whether someone has a lot of partners or not is not a predisposition to how likely they are to cheat. Imagine you flip a coin 100 times and it lands in heads 100 times, the next time you flip that coin your chances of it landing on tails is still 50%. I say that to say this, you should give someone the chance to prove themselves and not judge a book by it’s cover.

Sure, there is choice. Would you not agree that most human behavior is driven by survival mechanisms developed through evolution? Is love not an emotion developed to bond a couple in order to ensure survival of offspring?

Why would a woman stop having kids after she has had one? Wouldn’t evolution dictate that the more offspring are produced, the higher the chances of one of those offspring surviving to sexual maturity? Tying of tubes did not exist during our evolution, so I’m not sure what you mean with that. Sexuality is an instinct, an incentive to procreate for the survival of our species; but so is monogamy, love, etc. Did you know that once children are born, prolactin is said to increase in fathers, which makes them more likely to stay and home and help take care of the kids?

So when it comes to choice, it is always going to be tied to sexual evolution in some way. For most women, those who engage in frequent sex with multiple partners often have a history of sexual trauma, lack of a strong father figure in their early development, etc. I’m 35 and have met some promiscuous women in my life and have not met one who did not exhibit some other issues or who was a balanced and mentally healthy person. I’m sure they exist, I just haven’t met one.

[Swilderbeast]

Sure, there is choice. Would you not agree that most human behavior is driven by survival mechanisms developed through evolution? Is love not an emotion developed to bond a couple in order to ensure survival of offspring?

Why would a woman stop having kids after she has had one? Wouldn’t evolution dictate that the more offspring are produced, the higher the chances of one of those offspring surviving to sexual maturity? Tying of tubes did not exist during our evolution, so I’m not sure what you mean with that. Sexuality is an instinct, an incentive to procreate for the survival of our species; but so is monogamy, love, etc. Did you know that once children are born, prolactin is said to increase in fathers, which makes them more likely to stay and home and help take care of the kids?

So when it comes to choice, it is always going to be tied to sexual evolution in some way. For most women, those who engage in frequent sex with multiple partners often have a history of sexual trauma, lack of a strong father figure in their early development, etc. I’m 35 and have met some promiscuous women in my life and have not met one who did not exhibit some other issues or who was a balanced and mentally healthy person. I’m sure they exist, I just haven’t met one.

Do I believe human nature is derived from evolution?
Yes and No
Yes - in terms of fight or flight responses, a quick flash in the corner of your eye sets your mind to react, etc
No - I believe our declining population (I’m speaking in terms of people living in our country not counting immigration. When 2 people get together and have 1-2 children our population is not gaining) goes to show social pressures, economic pressures and new norms can drastically change what could be considered basic evolutionary learned traits.

Is love an emotion?
No - love is a principal not an emotion. A look at recent psychology studies will back this up. Love is something our society has developed in to a norm. Love is a choice, a choice to get up everyday and dedicate your life to that person you choose to spend your life with and to not do anything that would harm what you 2 have built. Your own words in a previous posts says “men are predisposed to spread their seed indiscriminately while woman choose selectively who impregnates them due to evolution” how can this statement and “love” exist in an evolutionary viewpoint?

Kids surviving to sexual maturity?
No - with the advancement of modern medicine this is not a norm in our society anymore. The chances of a birth not making it to sexual maturity is almost zero. This is why you don’t see woman having 5.6.7.8 kids anymore. This shows how societal changes can effect evolutionary traits. I don’t disagree that there was a time that was true but not anymore.

Tube tying - I was referencing this comment of yours “ Women are more selective with their partners because they produce 1 egg per month, can get pregnant, and they must choose wisely to ensure the survival of their offspring.” if this is why women have sex then why would a woman have sex following having their tubes tied?

And I disagree with nothing in your final paragraph. But still stand by my outlook “I’d rather someone prove me wrong, then judge them based on actions taken when they weren’t in a position to be”

[Test Monsterone]

Do I believe human nature is derived from evolution?
Yes and No
Yes - in terms of fight or flight responses, a quick flash in the corner of your eye sets your mind to react, etc
No - I believe our declining population (I’m speaking in terms of people living in our country not counting immigration. When 2 people get together and have 1-2 children our population is not gaining) goes to show social pressures, economic pressures and new norms can drastically change what could be considered basic evolutionary learned traits.

Again, you're using modern advancements in science and technology (condoms, birth control, knowledge about reproduction, etc.) to counter my statements that are simply saying that human sexual behavior is determined by evolution. Making a conscious decision to get on birth control, use a condom, get an abortion, pull out, or simply not engage in sexual behavior is a choice (as you say), but that doesn't negate the innate instinct to procreate. The reason we have libido is purely for procreation, from an evolutionary standpoint. The fact that we have a developed cortex that allows us to hack that biological mechanism for purposes of pleasure is a different topic.


Is love an emotion?
No - love is a principal not an emotion. A look at recent psychology studies will back this up. Love is something our society has developed in to a norm. Love is a choice, a choice to get up everyday and dedicate your life to that person you choose to spend your life with and to not do anything that would harm what you 2 have built. Your own words in a previous posts says “men are predisposed to spread their seed indiscriminately while woman choose selectively who impregnates them due to evolution” how can this statement and “love” exist in an evolutionary viewpoint?

This depends on how you define love. If you look at it as the butterfly feelings, the feelings of longing, adoration, missing someone... these are all emotions. Love has been studied and has been proven to be a series of chemical reactions, much like addiction. The changes in neurotransmitters in our brains lead to feelings/emotions/and love. The way you defined love is, as you say, a conscious choice, but this isn't how society views love or the way science views love. To explain my statement, have you ever heard of the "honeymoon" stage? This is usually a period of 6 months to 2 years when a couple are in the infancy of their relationship. In ancient times, this would be the time when the woman became pregnant, and the chemical reaction of love would serve to foster a co-parenting of the child to ensure it's survival. Once the child is born, the innate love (not a choice) is partially transferred to the newborn, where the parents instinctually feel the need to protect and care for the baby. This isn't a choice. Maybe a few people don't have these instincts, but these people are not the norm and if the world were like them, our species would cease to exist.


Kids surviving to sexual maturity?
No - with the advancement of modern medicine this is not a norm in our society anymore. The chances of a birth not making it to sexual maturity is almost zero. This is why you don’t see woman having 5.6.7.8 kids anymore. This shows how societal changes can effect evolutionary traits. I don’t disagree that there was a time that was true but not anymore.

"This shows how societal changes can effect evolutionary traits." No, societal changes do not affect evolutionary traits, they affect human behavior. You cannot change evolutionary traits, you are using the term incorrectly.

Tube tying - I was referencing this comment of yours “ Women are more selective with their partners because they produce 1 egg per month, can get pregnant, and they must choose wisely to ensure the survival of their offspring.” if this is why women have sex then why would a woman have sex following having their tubes tied?

Again, having the tubes tied is a modern advancement in medicine. This has nothing to do with evolution. This is a choice some women make. It doesn't negate evolution or the instincts we have evolved. There were no thousands/millions of years of women getting their tubes tied to lead to a decrease in sexual desire following the tying of the tubes... this is a very recent advancement. You can't use a recent advancement to explain why women continue engaging in sex after getting their tubes tied, taking birth control, etc.

Again, humans have sexual desires because it leads to procreation. A woman continues to have sex after the birth of the first child because children often died of diseases early on and only a few offspring survived (true of every animal species). A man and woman bond during the honeymoon stage of a relationship because it ensures the safety of the woman and offspring. That is what we call "love." Bonding may or may not continue after this stage (choice). Historically, in hierarchical societies (which they all were) not all men got to procreate, so the instinct of men to procreate when given the opportunity is, again, evolutionary. The evolutionary instinct of women was to pick a stable mate who would care for and provide for the woman and child. Men, and males of most species, do not normally care for offspring that are not their own. In order to keep a male to care for her and the offspring, a female must show some level of loyalty to him in order for him to stay (this is why female promiscuity is not normal). The fact that in modern times people go to bars and pick up drunk girls that are enamored with false ideals of masculinity and attraction, is an aberration from evolutionary norms. This is a phase some people go through, but is not evolutionary or conducive to the progression of society. Just because you did it doesn't mean it's the norm or that the laws of human attraction and procreation don't exist. It is a hack on those laws for selfish pleasure-seeking and ego feeding.

And I disagree with nothing in your final paragraph. But still stand by my outlook “I’d rather someone prove me wrong, then judge them based on actions taken when they weren’t in a position to be”

Nobody seeks to prove you wrong. Everyone is different. You chose to live the life you wanted for those reasons. We are talking about society and human nature as it relates to evolution, not your particular life decisions.

[Swilderbeast]

Do I believe human nature is derived from evolution?
Yes and No
Yes - in terms of fight or flight responses, a quick flash in the corner of your eye sets your mind to react, etc
No - I believe our declining population (I’m speaking in terms of people living in our country not counting immigration. When 2 people get together and have 1-2 children our population is not gaining) goes to show social pressures, economic pressures and new norms can drastically change what could be considered basic evolutionary learned traits.

Again, you're using modern advancements in science and technology (condoms, birth control, knowledge about reproduction, etc.) to counter my statements that are simply saying that human sexual behavior is determined by evolution. Making a conscious decision to get on birth control, use a condom, get an abortion, pull out, or simply not engage in sexual behavior is a choice (as you say), but that doesn't negate the innate instinct to procreate. The reason we have libido is purely for procreation, from an evolutionary standpoint. The fact that we have a developed cortex that allows us to hack that biological mechanism for purposes of pleasure is a different topic.


Is love an emotion?
No - love is a principal not an emotion. A look at recent psychology studies will back this up. Love is something our society has developed in to a norm. Love is a choice, a choice to get up everyday and dedicate your life to that person you choose to spend your life with and to not do anything that would harm what you 2 have built. Your own words in a previous posts says “men are predisposed to spread their seed indiscriminately while woman choose selectively who impregnates them due to evolution” how can this statement and “love” exist in an evolutionary viewpoint?

This depends on how you define love. If you look at it as the butterfly feelings, the feelings of longing, adoration, missing someone... these are all emotions. Love has been studied and has been proven to be a series of chemical reactions, much like addiction. The changes in neurotransmitters in our brains lead to feelings/emotions/and love. The way you defined love is, as you say, a conscious choice, but this isn't how society views love or the way science views love. To explain my statement, have you ever heard of the "honeymoon" stage? This is usually a period of 6 months to 2 years when a couple are in the infancy of their relationship. In ancient times, this would be the time when the woman became pregnant, and the chemical reaction of love would serve to foster a co-parenting of the child to ensure it's survival. Once the child is born, the innate love (not a choice) is partially transferred to the newborn, where the parents instinctually feel the need to protect and care for the baby. This isn't a choice. Maybe a few people don't have these instincts, but these people are not the norm and if the world were like them, our species would cease to exist.


Kids surviving to sexual maturity?
No - with the advancement of modern medicine this is not a norm in our society anymore. The chances of a birth not making it to sexual maturity is almost zero. This is why you don’t see woman having 5.6.7.8 kids anymore. This shows how societal changes can effect evolutionary traits. I don’t disagree that there was a time that was true but not anymore.

"This shows how societal changes can effect evolutionary traits." No, societal changes do not affect evolutionary traits, they affect human behavior. You cannot change evolutionary traits, you are using the term incorrectly.

Tube tying - I was referencing this comment of yours “ Women are more selective with their partners because they produce 1 egg per month, can get pregnant, and they must choose wisely to ensure the survival of their offspring.” if this is why women have sex then why would a woman have sex following having their tubes tied?

Again, having the tubes tied is a modern advancement in medicine. This has nothing to do with evolution. This is a choice some women make. It doesn't negate evolution or the instincts we have evolved. There were no thousands/millions of years of women getting their tubes tied to lead to a decrease in sexual desire following the tying of the tubes... this is a very recent advancement. You can't use a recent advancement to explain why women continue engaging in sex after getting their tubes tied, taking birth control, etc.

Again, humans have sexual desires because it leads to procreation. A woman continues to have sex after the birth of the first child because children often died of diseases early on and only a few offspring survived (true of every animal species). A man and woman bond during the honeymoon stage of a relationship because it ensures the safety of the woman and offspring. That is what we call "love." Bonding may or may not continue after this stage (choice). Historically, in hierarchical societies (which they all were) not all men got to procreate, so the instinct of men to procreate when given the opportunity is, again, evolutionary. The evolutionary instinct of women was to pick a stable mate who would care for and provide for the woman and child. Men, and males of most species, do not normally care for offspring that are not their own. In order to keep a male to care for her and the offspring, a female must show some level of loyalty to him in order for him to stay (this is why female promiscuity is not normal). The fact that in modern times people go to bars and pick up drunk girls that are enamored with false ideals of masculinity and attraction, is an aberration from evolutionary norms. This is a phase some people go through, but is not evolutionary or conducive to the progression of society. Just because you did it doesn't mean it's the norm or that the laws of human attraction and procreation don't exist. It is a hack on those laws for selfish pleasure-seeking and ego feeding.

And I disagree with nothing in your final paragraph. But still stand by my outlook “I’d rather someone prove me wrong, then judge them based on actions taken when they weren’t in a position to be”

Nobody seeks to prove you wrong. Everyone is different. You chose to live the life you wanted for those reasons. We are talking about society and human nature as it relates to evolution, not your particular life decisions.

I don’t disagree with the majority of what you’re saying. I believe we’ve hit a point where we’re splitting hairs, yes there are evolutionary traits but they are overcome by the change in environments and what can be done today. I’m not arguing there was a time and place when everything you say WAS TRUE. In todays society and in todays world IMO it is not.

You are probably correct about me using terminologies wrong. I’ve never claimed to be the smartest person around, hell I graduated high school by the skin of my teeth. But that does not mean I don’t have the wherewithal to see a duck and say “hey that’s a duck”. Somethings are just evidently clear. As for the entire debate we’ve shifted from the main topic which was choosing one girl over many. To which my whole point is one can not be judged based on decisions they made when not in a committed relationship.