Another mass shooting

[almostgone]

Debate is good. Not everyone has all the answers and getting other people’s opinions about things, especially somewhere like this. It might make people think and slightly change the view on things.

I applaud you both.

Thank you, Stocky. I'm still working at it myself, but I'm hoping it allows for more lounge discussion ( on the allowed topics) without things going off the rails.

I'm feeling pretty good about it considering it was completely off the cuff.

[stocky121]

Thank you, Stocky. I'm still working at it myself, but I'm hoping it allows for more lounge discussion ( on the allowed topics) without things going off the rails.

I'm feeling pretty good about it considering it was completely off the cuff.

I can also understand the other side. Where people get passionate about something they love also. The worst for me is the far left and right who just shut down a debate straight away because they can’t even understand someone else’s point of view.

[almostgone]

I can also understand the other side. Where people get passionate about something they love also. The worst for me is the far left and right who just shut down a debate straight away because they can’t even understand someone else’s point of view.

Yes sir, that effectively kills communication and turns into a huge echo chamber of conflict.

[Cuz]

I can also understand the other side. Where people get passionate about something they love also. The worst for me is the far left and right who just shut down a debate straight away because they can’t even understand someone else’s point of view.

Absolutely Stocky. Its great to have a civil debate every now and then and I occasionally will. The problem is the left, doesn’t really understand alot of things and thats why I no longer argue over it because strong left leaning individuals just cant process common thinking sense. Politics are great to debate there’s always two sides and two differences or maybe even more. There seems to me an obvious right way to do things and a wrong way.
I look at American foreign policy, economics, lawmaking the whole 9 and just dont agree with the left id say about 90% of the time.

The difference is, disarming a nation and breaking that constitutional right , is NOT political. At all. Its not up for debate, at all. It just isnt and never will be. Constitutional freedoms are there for a reason. Im sorry the left wants to change it not happening. We sure aren’t changing the left leaning amendments. Theres a few I wouldn’t mind seeing changed myself but not happening.

Freedom isnt free. And the guns arent going anywhere. I love my God, I love my country, and I love my family and if anyone tries to change that then theyre gonna have to come through me.

[stocky121]

Absolutely Stocky. Its great to have a civil debate every now and then and I occasionally will. The problem is the left, doesn’t really understand alot of things and thats why I no longer argue over it because strong left leaning individuals just cant process common thinking sense. Politics are great to debate there’s always two sides and two differences or maybe even more. There seems to me an obvious right way to do things and a wrong way.
I look at American foreign policy, economics, lawmaking the whole 9 and just dont agree with the left id say about 90% of the time.

The difference is, disarming a nation and breaking that constitutional right , is NOT political. At all. Its not up for debate, at all. It just isnt and never will be. Constitutional freedoms are there for a reason. Im sorry the left wants to change it not happening. We sure aren’t changing the left leaning amendments. Theres a few I wouldn’t mind seeing changed myself but not happening.

Freedom isnt free. And the guns arent going anywhere. I love my God, I love my country, and I love my family and if anyone tries to change that then theyre gonna have to come through me.

I don’t know where I stand, I would say central but I like parts of both left and right. There was a guy who was running for prime minister I liked a lot of his policy’s. Re nationalisation of infrastructure and the likes. But the issue why I couldn’t vote for him was he wanted to scrap our nuclear deterrent. That was a red line for me.
On the other hand I think they need to bring back the death penalty, only for the most serious of crimes. I say once a week pay per view the gallows, only cheap say £1 and people can watch it if they want to or not. It would give out a clear signal not to commit crime. I know a lot of people would disagree and rightfully so, I would have 15 year ago. but I don’t see an alternative to get crime under control.
The same with illegal immigrants coming over on boats. I’m all for helping family’s under persecution coming for a better life and wanting to integrate with society. What I’m not for is fighting age males coming over on mass.
Use the money from the ppv for gun boats and turn them around, if not blast them out the sea. It would soon stop them.

[wango]

I don’t know where I stand, I would say central but I like parts of both left and right. There was a guy who was running for prime minister I liked a lot of his policy’s. Re nationalisation of infrastructure and the likes. But the issue why I couldn’t vote for him was he wanted to scrap our nuclear deterrent. That was a red line for me.
On the other hand I think they need to bring back the death penalty, only for the most serious of crimes. I say once a week pay per view the gallows, only cheap say £1 and people can watch it if they want to or not. It would give out a clear signal not to commit crime. I know a lot of people would disagree and rightfully so, I would have 15 year ago. but I don’t see an alternative to get crime under control.
The same with illegal immigrants coming over on boats. I’m all for helping family’s under persecution coming for a better life and wanting to integrate with society. What I’m not for is fighting age males coming over on mass.
Use the money from the ppv for gun boats and turn them around, if not blast them out the sea. It would soon stop them.

If you’re referring to Muslims (not that I’m at all racist ), man would I f’n hate that if I was living across the pond. With all of the unrest and wars in the Middle East, they must be constantly coming like a swarm of insects.

[stocky121]

If you’re referring to Muslims (not that I’m at all racist ), man would I f’n hate that if I was living across the pond. With all of the unrest and wars in the Middle East, they must be constantly coming like a swarm of insects.

Not all Muslims. I have friends who are Muslims from school who I still talk to, really good people. So I just want to put it out there that I’m not racist There’s plenty of white British people who I hate. If you’re a cunt you’re a cunt no matter the religion or skin colour.
That been said the amount of fighting age man say roughly 18-30 that have come over illegally and put up in hotels is frightening, there are a few in my city and you never see women and children with them at all.
You have no idea of the past of these people or the murders or pedophiles? You just don’t know.
If I had a criminal record, could I come to USA on holiday? It’s Very unlikely I would be let, and rightfully so.

[wango]

Not all Muslims. I have friends who are Muslims from school who I still talk to, really good people. So I just want to put it out there that I’m not racist There’s plenty of white British people who I hate. If you’re a cunt you’re a cunt no matter the religion or skin colour.
That been said the amount of fighting age man say roughly 18-30 that have come over illegally and put up in hotels is frightening, there are a few in my city and you never see women and children with them at all.
You have no idea of the past of these people or the murders or pedophiles? You just don’t know.
If I had a criminal record, could I come to USA on holiday? It’s Very unlikely I would be let, and rightfully so.

Got some very good Muslim friends as well & decent Iranian neighbors. I don’t judge individuals until I get to know them. However, I dislike the idea of a large group of individuals foreign to where I’m from is entering in mass & perhaps changing the social climate of where I live.

[Test Monsterone]

If you’re referring to Muslims (not that I’m at all racist ), man would I f’n hate that if I was living across the pond. With all of the unrest and wars in the Middle East, they must be constantly coming like a swarm of insects.

If you think about it, it's been like this everywhere in the world at some point - but when I go to Europe I want to see ethnic Europeans. I want the customs, the language, the religion, everything, to be European. And I want the same when I go to countries in the Middle-East or Asia. I don't want to go to Paris and see Arabs. I don't want to go to Italy and see Africans. I don't think it's racism, it's just a desire to preserve one's culture and identity. As for the US, well, it's harder to make that argument since technically, none of us should really be here if fair were fair. Everyone in the US, save for a few natives who haven't mixed blood with the Europeans, can really say this is their land, technically speaking.

BUT... I wonder if the western powers (primarily the US, Britain and France) had not colonized and destabilized places in the Middle East or Africa, this influx of Arabs would have happened? Is it fair that we ransacked their countries, stole their resources, colonized their lands, murdered their people... only to now say, you are not welcome to our lands? That's the ethical dilemma.

There are many (most) countries in Europe that were not colonizers, that over the centuries of their existence have only tried to stop others from invading their lands. And I fully support their right to defend and maintain their identities.

[stocky121]

If you think about it, it's been like this everywhere in the world at some point - but when I go to Europe I want to see ethnic Europeans. I want the customs, the language, the religion, everything, to be European. And I want the same when I go to countries in the Middle-East or Asia. I don't want to go to Paris and see Arabs. I don't want to go to Italy and see Africans. I don't think it's racism, it's just a desire to preserve one's culture and identity. As for the US, well, it's harder to make that argument since technically, none of us should really be here if fair were fair. Everyone in the US, save for a few natives who haven't mixed blood with the Europeans, can really say this is their land, technically speaking.

BUT... I wonder if the western powers (primarily the US, Britain and France) had not colonized and destabilized places in the Middle East or Africa, this influx of Arabs would have happened? Is it fair that we ransacked their countries, stole their resources, colonized their lands, murdered their people... only to now say, you are not welcome to our lands? That's the ethical dilemma.

There are many (most) countries in Europe that were not colonizers, that over the centuries of their existence have only tried to stop others from invading their lands. And I fully support their right to defend and maintain their identities.

I totally agree with you on this point. I think you’re been a bit harsh on the US they didn’t start destabilising till last century. But for sure Britain France Holland Belgium Germany Italy. All had a hand in it.
That’s why most of Africa and the Middle East has straight boarders it was just easier to carve up.

[wango]

If you think about it, it's been like this everywhere in the world at some point - but when I go to Europe I want to see ethnic Europeans. I want the customs, the language, the religion, everything, to be European. And I want the same when I go to countries in the Middle-East or Asia. I don't want to go to Paris and see Arabs. I don't want to go to Italy and see Africans. I don't think it's racism, it's just a desire to preserve one's culture and identity. As for the US, well, it's harder to make that argument since technically, none of us should really be here if fair were fair. Everyone in the US, save for a few natives who haven't mixed blood with the Europeans, can really say this is their land, technically speaking.

BUT... I wonder if the western powers (primarily the US, Britain and France) had not colonized and destabilized places in the Middle East or Africa, this influx of Arabs would have happened? Is it fair that we ransacked their countries, stole their resources, colonized their lands, murdered their people... only to now say, you are not welcome to our lands? That's the ethical dilemma.

There are many (most) countries in Europe that were not colonizers, that over the centuries of their existence have only tried to stop others from invading their lands. And I fully support their right to defend and maintain their identities.

To me at least, all of that goes without saying & we’ve agreed on that on other threads through the days.

That said, the past has happened for better or worse & we are left with certain realities now whether we like them or not.

Our treatment of the indigenous was atrocious, but it happened. Should we all pack up and leave to our ancestral country’s of origin and give it back?

Europe, Russia & the US have tampered with the Middle East for centuries and once the idea of oil for kerosene and later automobiles was discovered, we toyed with and took advantage of the region badly. And to top it off, we created the ultimate cluster-fuck in Israel.

So we are faced with this history & reality and things will only continue to get worse.

Guess you’ll have to get used to seeing Arabs at the Louvre and Africans on the canals of Venice & learn to like it.

[Test Monsterone]

The difference is, disarming a nation and breaking that constitutional right , is NOT political. At all. Its not up for debate, at all. It just isnt and never will be. Constitutional freedoms are there for a reason. Im sorry the left wants to change it not happening. We sure aren’t changing the left leaning amendments. Theres a few I wouldn’t mind seeing changed myself but not happening.

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution:

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

You just want to support the constitution when it suits you, not because you are trying to uphold the constitution as a whole. I support your right to own guns, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Cuz]

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution:

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

You just want to support the constitution when it suits you, not because you are trying to uphold the constitution as a whole. I support your right to own guns, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

TM, I think you know where you stand with me. I honestly have no desire to debate with you. In fact, I think its quite funny how an immigrant would try and lecture a grown man born in the southern states on the constitution. Keep googling buddy its your thread do as you wish.

[Test Monsterone]

TM, I think you know where you stand with me. I honestly have no desire to debate with you. In fact, I think its quite funny how an immigrant would try and lecture a grown man born in the southern states on the constitution. Keep googling buddy its your thread do as you wish.

Me being an immigrant has nothing to do with the fact that I'm about 30-40 IQ points higher than you and can outclass you in any debate. But good job on being born in the Southern US. That's quite an accomplishment.

[wango]

Me being an immigrant has nothing to do with the fact that I'm about 30-40 IQ points higher than you and can outclass you in any debate. But good job on being born in the Southern US. That's quite an accomplishment.

Perhaps the point is that “true outsiders” whatever they are as we are all immigrants originally (in the US) should not dictate rules, laws, morals and ethics on “foreign” territory. Kind of like, if the Taliban, Saudi’s and Iranians want to treat women differently; who are we to interfere? If another country puts Muslims in camps or has lax rules on working conditions, so what?

More pertinent now is as the Jews in Israel now are the dominant force, who are we to interfere in their treatment of Palestinians?

[Cuz]

Me being an immigrant has nothing to do with the fact that I'm about 30-40 IQ points higher than you and can outclass you in any debate. But good job on being born in the Southern US. That's quite an accomplishment.

Hey I just bought some pumpkins at Publix, very large size. 6.99 plus tax, thought it was a hell of a deal. Just thought Id share.

[wango]

I can also understand the other side. Where people get passionate about something they love also. The worst for me is the far left and right who just shut down a debate straight away because they can’t even understand someone else’s point of view.

Exactly. 1/2 of the US can’t decide who’s good or bad by the brand of of beer they drink. We’re really going to discuss something serious?

[stocky121]

Exactly. 1/2 of the US can’t decide who’s good or bad by the brand of of beer they drink. We’re really going to discuss something serious?

Mate. Bud light should be band just on the taste alone, I think tap waters stronger.
Sorry my American friends.

[wango]

Mate. Bud light should be band just on the taste alone, I think tap waters stronger.
Sorry my American friends.

Never tasted Bud Light, but grew up drinking Shlitz, Hamms & PBR. Now that was quality brew.

[stocky121]

Never tasted Bud Light, but grew up drinking Shlitz, Hamms & PBR. Now that was quality brew.

Dam wango making me google stuff
I’m sure I’ve seen PBR in films before. Probably Smokey and the bandit or something along them lines.

[wango]

Dam wango making me google stuff
I’m sure I’ve seen PBR in films before. Probably Smokey and the bandit or something along them lines.

Sorry bout that. Just beers common in my area and time when I started drinking beer. They were pretty old school and not the greatest tasting compared to a lot of what’s out there today.

[almostgone]

Never tasted Bud Light, but grew up drinking Shlitz, Hamms & PBR. Now that was quality brew.

Hah...Schlitz. That was the name of my first dog (a standard Collie) when I was around 3 or 4. It used to mortify my Mom, because when I said Schlitz, it always came out as Shits.

Damn good dog and pal. Very gentle, but protective as could be.