Female Member
400bucks! wow.. well there is no too high a price for comfort.
Yes i did google bod pod and found some locations- it says to wear spandex or other tight fitting clothes..so that was kind a motivation stopper for me.. i dont own tight fitting clothes.
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
come on girl u gotta be more motivated than that!Originally Posted by qkcam
when i went i wore reg clothes and changed in a room before i got into the machine. go to walmart and spend 15 bucks and get a sports bra and some spandex shorts and make an appointment and go get it done!
im sure whoever is giving u the test will be female (mine was) so u should be fine.
i say this in the nicest way possible
Female Member
15 bucks for spandex and 25 bucks for the test.. that is alot.. wont the calipers at the gym for free work?
i really hate spandex! i do have sports bra though so i am half the way there. it is the way i see my body that is the issue.. i dont care what others think or see.. it is my own judgement that is the worst.
maybe i have a pair of wierd old jockey type tight boxer shorts that might work.?. yet i would feel like i am in my underwear.. i grew up in a very modest midwest ..
Female Member
actually make that 40bucks for the test.. i need to wait untill i get more money after the 23rd.. and work on getting the free test at the gym... : )
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
as long as the person using them knows what theyre doing + depending on ur bf% they lose accuracy when u get above 20%
when i went i didnt know u needed tight clothes and they provided me with spandex. i had to wear them and no shirt and i was a fat guy with a female technician/nurse. but i did it and look at me now! id be fine putting those spandex on. shoot i mite even get in in my bday suit if i had to!
either way u want to get ur bf% done. thats all im sayn. u need LBM to know how many cals to eat.
Female Member
you are definatly proof you know what you are doing.. i am trying to get a trainer at the gym that has been training for a while. i have someone in mind but he wasn't there yesterday.. they have a lot of "new trainers" and maybe i am synical but i think the buff lean guy might be more knowledeable.. i guess that is prejeduce? man i can't spell!
i will call some of the bod pod places.. if they have spandex provided that would be great!
they seem to be in places that have parking issues or pay for parking- the damn bay area nothing is free! times are tight as i am paying back credit card bills i racked up last fall trying CFIDS dr experiments- i am definatly feeling a change in my body..
i need to gauge healthy workouts for myself. i am pretty exhausted and sore from yesterday and sat.. i dont know if that is normal or if it is the cfids- folks with cfids apprantely our bodies dont make enough mitacondrial. i have kinda maybe been overduing it at the gym for 90mins.. maybe need to scale back to 45.. but it is so much fun once i get there and there is so much to do.! but i know if i overdo i can be sick for a really long time and that is a set back-.. maybe one 90min workout a week is good and i will try to keep the rest 20 to 40mins? for a while and see if i can stay well for a few months ?
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
the "trainers" at the gym are prob hit or miss if its anything like they are here. i would be a lot more inclined to take advice from a lean/ripped guy than some fat butt too! but some people know what to do they just cant make themselves do it. personally i dont think u need a trainer except maybe to teach u proper form. workout programs and diet u can get rite here.
hard to say how long ur workouts should take. cardio def not more than 45mins but i think u said u could only do 20mins rite? lifting depends on weight and reps and time between sets. u dont wanna make urself sick! it may take a little time but i think we can get u on ur way. i just need that bf%
dont put urself in a bind just do the best u can
Senior Member
I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but have you heard of the lean gains diet? Check it out lean gains.com it's good shit
Female Member
thanks 405..! at the gym they said a trainer is the one who would do the BF testing. I am pretty good with form.. i have been working out despite having health setbacks for a few years.. have had a couple trainers in the past.. and sometimes people at the gym compliment me on my forum.. although i was thinking about working occasionally with my old trainer- who is private trainer not a "golds trainer " occasionally to learn some new exercises.. she is a pro body builder - but right now i cant afford it. i was doing 20mins walking on treadmill at an include and then pushed up to 25 and 30mins.. thinking i am pushing too fast.. as far as weights i have been trying to take a longer rest inbetween sets. the golds in SF has alot of pro's that i get the feeling compete.. so i watch what they do - it is inspirational..
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
sounds cool! the gym i go to im the best looking person there LOL... would be nice to see some real BBers
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
lots going on in your thread. nice to see
hungry...yeh, I got hungry INITIALLY and do I still?, yes ma'am. It's a little uncomfortable at first, but when I feel it a little hungercoming on, I chew some sugarfree gum and drink some more water!!!
I was at the big boy side of the gym today for the FIRST time...and so proud of myself. I did the same thing...watch someone who looks like they know what they are doing and even ask for help. You can also google exercises....like I did for a BURPEE!
You don't want to hurt or injure yourself and being uncomfortable isn't bad and uncomfortable isn't pain.
I would buy spandex and get my bod pod LONGGGGG BEFORE I spent $$$ on a trainer. YOU ARE WORTH THIS. you are WORTH IT. Say it with me....I am worthy....I AM WORTHYyou are girly! you deserve this for yourself!!!! so go to walmart and buy some spandex. and if you are between sizes, buy the smaller one, cuz you will be dropping weight in a bit
Female Member
thanks 951 i will check out lean gains..
and 405 yes the gym is cool.. and being SF there are alot of gay men that have been body building for a long time and they are HUGE and lean! they are very nice to me and i really enjoy talking to them- there are even a few women that i think are competeing they are pretty big and some of them have "enhanced" voices.
GGR congrats on getting over to the "BIG BOY" side- that must have been quite a visual experince! I did call UCSF and left a msg about the bod pod--sounds like it will be expensive she said they woudl call me back and they just raised their prices. I dont care for spandex (too girly looking for me) no offense... but i will find a way to try the bod pod if i can fit it in my budget.
yes i am starving and logging my food as i go..so i can see what needs adjusted carbs/fat along the way. .. having a hard time getting enough protein without the pwdr.. but working on it... thanks
Female Member
Tuesday 8.14.12
Cals 1796 165c/165p/54f
BREAKFAST 605 65C/37P/24F
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
Shakeology + psylum husKs+ 1/3 c blueberries + 1 scoop rice protein, psylim husks, 1/3 c oats
Snack: 155CALS/ 16.6C/7.9P/8.4F
13 almonds ½ banana
LUNCH 197C/ 6.8C/32P/2.7F
4oz chicken breast 76 3.8c/13.2p/0f
10oz steamed veggies bok choy & spinach
SNACK 205 15C/32P/1.5F
½ shakeology + 2 scoops rice protein
DINNER 430 40c/30p/17f
Turkey pattie
Super spinach salad
Snack 171 cals
3oz sliced turkey cals76 3.8c/13.2p/0f
Rice protein with ice and fruit- cals 95 10.5c/12.5p/0f into a sorbet of sorts.
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
just thought id give ur diet a look. this way u can see some things that u may need to prepare urself to change. also ur macro split is:Tuesday 8.14.12
Cals 1796 165c/165p/54f
BREAKFAST 605 65C/37P/24F id bring this down. have ur fats in ur last meal with little to no carbs
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
Shakeology + psylum husKs+ 1/3 c blueberries + 1 scoop rice protein, psylim husks, 1/3 c oats
i dont know what shakeology is? personally i think the more simple u make ur diet the more predictable ur result will be.
a good breakfast IMO = 1whole egg, 2-3 egg whites, 1/2 cup oats
Snack: 155CALS/ 16.6C/7.9P/8.4F
13 almonds ½ banana fat plus sugar = bad for cutting diet
LUNCH 197C/ 6.8C/32P/2.7F
4oz chicken breast 76 3.8c/13.2p/0f
10oz steamed veggies bok choy & spinach looks good. what is bok choy?
SNACK 205 15C/32P/1.5F
½ shakeology + 2 scoops rice protein havent lookd into rice protein. my gut says theres better sources. i suppose (like with my wife) eating all the food will be a challenge for u
DINNER 430 40c/30p/17f
Turkey pattie patty?? is it ground? 17g fat seems way high. does all the fat come from the turkey? my 96%ff ground beef only has 18g fat in a whole pound!
Super spinach salad
Snack 171 cals
3oz sliced turkey cals76 3.8c/13.2p/0f hopefully this is not "cold cut". too many preservatives and its highly processed.
Rice protein with ice and fruit- cals 95 10.5c/12.5p/0f into a sorbet of sorts. fruit before bed (or really any time during a cut is not optimal IMO)
36.7% pro
36.7% carb
27% fat too high especially with almost 40%cals coming from carbs.
ideal split for a cut IMO is 60/20/20 pro/carb/fat (or there about). keeping carbs at or below 20% total cals will help u mobilize fat into the blood at an optimal rate. i realize this is a split that will prob not work for u but figd id show it to u anyways. once we know how much LBM u have we can work on ur split. maybe 50/30/20
like i said this is just to show u a few things. IMO ur gonna do well to start out with a simple diet. clean food. single ingredients. it will help u a lot if u can look at food as fuel only and try to eliminate the idea of eating for pleasure. (at least for awhile).
this is where i ran into probs with my wife. i think designing a solid diet for u would be the best approach and then from there we can look at what is giving u the most trouble to adhere to and decide where to make allowances. being that ur workouts are limited in duration and intensity itll be a bit more challenging for u as far as allowances goes with food choices.
u being female is a bit of a challenge for me cuz i cant see things from a female perspective. my solution is always "suck it up and do it" and i know it doesnt work that way with yall. ill try to be understanding.
Female Member
hi 405 thanks for the awesome feedback.. i dont know how to reply with the quote like you did.
i used to have an egg and egg whites for breakfast with oatmeal. it was my stable .. but then i found out i have an egg allergy..so no eggs for me..
Boy choi is a green leafy vegetable they often have at chinese restaurants.. i didnt think much of it untill i saw the nutritional value.
yes it was ground turkey..oddly alot of the fat came from things that were in the salad..and that is without the dressing..the salad alone was 9 grms fat it had a few sunflower seeds.
the only reason i am having rice protein is becasue i ran out of the pea protein for now-- hope to get some today or tomorrow.. i have allergies to "dairy" whey protein was part of my diet for years untill 7 months ago when i found out i was allerigc.. no wonder i kept getting sick.
i am all for simple since i am not a very good cook!- and the turkey was ffrom a deli.. free of nitrates-
it is a process.. i have cut out "hard sugars" and breads.. dairy and eggs.. i dont have alot of things left to get pleasure and food seems to be the last to go.
i totally get about cutting the fruit out - yet i need to take gradual steps- otherwise i end up not eating--and for me not eating is worse then having some fruit.. i figure 1/2 c of fruit at nite was a better choice than almond butter or a can of smoked trout. i used to have a 1/2 c lowfat cottage cheese at nite and that was satisfying untill i found out about the dairy allery.. then i started having nut buttter at nite-- that wasn't a good choice..but i didnt know what else to have.. and i get sick of meat all the time.
this is a process.. i am needing to make slow gradual cuts- and learning to cook.. i heated up the george foreman and cooked up 3 chicken breast yesterday and 2 turkey burgers and have some fish thawing today..
my challnage is emotional eating.. when i get overwhelmed then i just give up and i will opt for some thai food-
also i need a plan so when my energy is low and i dont hve food cooked.. somethign i can have that will be easy and lean..becasue when my energy is low and i feel like i am sick of being sick...sometimes having a nice meal from a restaurant is the only t hing i have to look forward too that day or for those few days. so the goal is a backup plan for "sick " days.. with healhty lean foods.. and to "pace" myself to prevent getting sick so i can keep moving forward..
yay!
Female Member
i will tweek towards a 50/30/20 - i am learning each day when i log my foods into caloire count the macros in my choices.. and some days i am shocked.. i was very discourged yesterday to see my fat count so high.. i had been workign on bringing it down.. so this am.. i started with 1 tbpsn of almond butter instead of 2.. that saves me about 7 gmrs of fat..
Female Member
went to the gym for 30mins treadmill and on the scale I lost 2 lbs.. yay! also saw my friend and he is going to measure the BF tomorrow he said they use an ultrasound and take measurements from 7 different places.. which i hope will be good enough the bod pod place called back and said $125... i also took food to eat after working out alhtough the chicken and veggies were cold- as my truck doest have a microwave! and it was almost a "fasting" walk since i hadn't eaten in 3 hours. thanks
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
2 pounds...yayyyyyyy and whoop! QK's party is on!
an option for night time snack is 2 oz of lean steak...slow digestive process. sometimes i grill a nice size steak and take one bite every night until is it gone.
you are doing AWESOME. 2 pounds and u r doing "limited" cardio. wow, just wow.
Female Member
awe thank you GGR!!! party is on.. i love the idea of steak occasionally at nite.. i dont know if i could stop with one bite.. good goal!! under the 1600 cal mark.. hmm.. but here was today
hope to stay "good" after the ambian kicks in.. trying to figure what else i can eat b4 sleep that will give me 200 lean healthy cals? aint got no steak in the fridge.. chickn, fish.. burnt out on chickne..need to save it for tomorrow.
WEDS 8.15.2012 cals 1248, 104c/142p/31f
BREAKFAST 477 53C/42P/12.7F
Rainbow light protein pwdr, +, rice protein, psyllium husks, banana, brown rice cake 1 tbsp almond butter,
2 fish oils
3HRS LATER fasting? 30MINS TREADMILL
LUNCH 256, 18.6C/32P/4.8F
Grilled chicken breast 4oz, ½ sweet potato, 5oz bok choy steamed, 3oz steamed spinach, 2 fish oils
DINNER 237, 25c/31p/2.2f
½ C frozen mango blended with 2 1/2 c kale raw, 5oz grilled mahi mahi
SNACK 233, 7C/37P/6F
Grn turkey burger w/ pico de gallo
PEA protein + w/water
1 tsp cod liver oil
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
45%pro
33%carb
22%fat
getting better! it looks like ur posting ur diet after the fact is this correct? if yes this is something u need to change. instead of eating and then calculating u need to do it the other way around. (if thats what ur doing. its what it looks like by ur language).
when i cut i basically eat the same 6 meals every day. i calculate my diet out and then stick to it. if u have a lot of variety i suggest u calculate ur diet a day ahead of time and post it here BEFORE u eat it so we can look at it.
also i see u mentioned u dont have a microwave in ur truk. i eat about 90% of my meals cold. for about 2 months there i ate my broccoli while it was still partially frozen! having to eat cold food will get u no sympathy from me.
Female Member
dude ..not looking for sypmathy.. just trying to be "safe" with the bacterias and crap on the meat..i t hought hte reason for heating it was to kill those things- but i guess not.
sometimes i log my food before i eat it..in calorie count.. that is how i know how much to eat -
but when i try a new thing i have to get used to it.. i dont think i would eat the same thing for all six meals for a week.. i can do a few same meals.. but i need to have some variety.
found a good way to make my night protein pwder into something like "ice cream" (which i havnt had in years!) just protein pwdr and lots of ice with the vitamix.
variety is the spice of life!
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
u dont get my sense of humor do u QK? i was just kidding.. hence the smiley wink.. goodness!
Last edited by --->>405<<---; 08-16-2012 at 07:48 AM.
Female Member
I am noticing i have a bad habit of being "defensive" seems to often be my first response.. and it is hard to tell in electronic versions of people as there is no facial expressions.. trying to unlearn so many unproductive behaviors- sorry sorry.
i dont know why i have become so defensive in my old age? i didn't use to be that way. - i need to lighten up. today i go for bf# and then have to hit the road for acupunture.. i feel the body is wearing down and it needs a tune up- i dont know how my food is going to look while on the road- this is hard!
oddly lots of feeling coming up without the "food" and i am finding i want "food" to comfort! -- i would go throw down some exercise.. but i need to be light if i do.. body is nearing an "exhaustive" state.. i need to recharge it rather than "deplete" it.. i cant afford to be sick for weeks..
easy does it.
Senior Member
For me , to cover cravings i have 2 tbsp of natty Peanutbutter in my daily calories micro's. When i get cravings thats when i unleash the PB monster inside me and so far its helped alot.
Female Member
what is natty Peanutbutter? . .. i am craving thai food with coconut curry.. i guess maybe i need to get a coconut and put the meat inside the blender.. mabye i just need coconut.. i could add some peanut butter and then i have a clean "thai peanut sauce"?
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
dont worry about it
good luck on bf% look forward to the numbers so we can go forward with the numbers!
Senior Member
natural peanut butter or almond butter
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
I may have mentioned that I ate the same food everyday for 4 months cuz I did not have time to calculate daily macros with the changes in daily intake. I decided that I needed to lose weight cuz my doctor wanted to put me on insulin shots. I decided I did not want to live like that and gave my best last ditch effort using food. I was desperate to not be a salve to an insulin needle to live. I was motivated and am still motivated by health reason. I do not want to run to doctors for prescriptions and appointments. My eating habits were poor cuz I had a mouth problem. I was putting crappy food in my mouth cuz it made me feel good in that moment but I was killing myself one fork at a time.
I lost 40 pounds eating the same basic food everyday. I no longer give food power over me. I eat to live not live to eat. What is your motivation? Find the one thing that is more important then any of the discomfort that goes with a different way of eating. What is it that is going to keep on ur macros when the emotions kick in and the comfort food cravings hit??? U don't need to post on ur thread just consider this question.
I am on my phone so can't put more luv into this. But know that I and OP trying to give u solid approach. U r the only one who is executing the suggestions. I think 2 pounds is a great start and this is a journey. I will take 2 pounds down any week in a year. : )
Female Member
thanks 405,mokery and GGR.. i can't see clearly so maybe i missed the
so body fat is 27%.. but they based it on a male body thing so he said ie wasn't sure how that accounts for the breasts?
he also said i didnt look fat to him ..tummy and hips need work. but everything else looked muscular. it has 2 pages in need to read..
ok.. food info will come in later- probably not enough so far today..
i realize i am bouncing undereating.. to overeating..
BREAKFAST 490cals 55c/43p/13.5f
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
Shakeology 1scoop pea protein + Spiriluina+ ½ C berries +psylium husksk
Snack 148 10c/21p/2.9f
Rice cake 4oz sliced turkey
GYM LEGS SHOULDERS- lite
SNACK 191 13c/34p/.5f
Pea protein + energier protein with water
Female Member
so far with dinner 4oz chkn breast steamed veggies macros are at 38p/29c/20f
that is good..40lbs GGR !!! you are amazing.!! i have 20 to lose according to the bf machine
.. when i weighed it looked like i lost 1/2 lb in a day..
Female Member
THE LAST SNACK WS MAYBE TOO MUCH
THURS 8.16.12 1651 122c/211p/38f
BREAKFAST 490cals 55c/43p/13.5f
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
Shakeology 1scoop pea protein + Spiriluina+ ½ C berries +psylium husksk
Snack 148 10c/21p/2.9f
Rice cake 4oz sliced turkey
GYM LEGS SHOULDERS- lite
SNACK 191 13c/34p/.5f
Pea protein + energier protein with water
DINNER 243CALS 5.2c/36p/8.6f
4oz chicken breat
8oz steamed bok choi and asparagus
SNACKS DIVIDED INTO 2 HOURS APART
243 18C/28P/1.5F
Pea protein + ½ shakeology
COD LIVER OIL
LAST SNACK
CALS 285 8.1C/47P/3.1F
1 TSP PEANUTBUTTER
½ CHICKNE BREAST
PEA PROTEIN WITH ICE
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
ok QK so we have ur bf% whats ur weight?
Female Member
well i am 185 and coming down.
Female Member
FRIDAY 8.17.12
Breakfast 455 46c/43p/13.2f
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
Shakeology 1scoop pea protein +psylium husks
SNACK
APPLE 95 25c/.5p/.3f
power walking 30mins
Lunch 230 6.4c/40p/2.9f
5oz fish and chicken
8 oz steamed veggies spinach/ asparagus
DINNER 419 20c/51p/14f
Ground turkey w/beans + 4oz chicken breast
all out of that turkey..now will get extra lean turkey and beef
PROTEIN SNACK 161 13C/24P/09F
1 scoop pea protein 1/3 shakeology + ¼ cup frozen berries
Lots of ice blended in vitamix to make high protein low sugar no dairy ice cream
Female Member
i forgot the total macros.
FRIDAY 8.17.12 1456 122c/170p/32f
Female Member
lost another 2 lbs.. but i feel a bit weaker- also grumpy as heck!
Female Member
SATURDAY 8.18.12 1485 114c/167p/38f
BREAKFAST 325 24C/37P/10F
1 rice cake 1 tsp almond butter
1 SP pea protein + energizer protein
Lunch 343 35C/28P/9.4F
Refried beans and rice carna asada
WORKOUT BACK + 20MINS eleptical
Snack 283 29C/36P/3F
Shakology + pea protein
DINNER 306 20C/35P/7.9F
4OZ lean grnd beef, 5oz spinach, 4oz bok choi , 1 c strawberries
Snack 228 7c/31p/7.5f
Pea protein beef steak
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
well QK at 185lbs and 27%bf u have 135.05 lbs LBM which seems fairly high for a female. based solely on these stats ur BMR = 1693cals
LBM x 15 is a standard starting point for maintenance cals which will put ur maintenance at 2025cals
based on this a good cutting caloric intake would be 1525cals.
if u were to run a 60/20/20 split (my preference) that would put u at:
228g pro
76g carbs
34g fat
this may be tuff for u to stick to due to the high amt of protein. it appears as though ur already fairly on target with ur cals.
50/30/20 pro/carb/fat
1525cals
190g pro
114g carbs
34g fat
maybe an idea for u QK would be to run the 50/30/20 on workout days and then on non-workout days cut ur carbs back to 76g (20% total cals) but just keep ur protein the same. so itll look like this:
workout days: 50/30/20
1525 cals
190g pro
114g carbs
34g fat
non workout days:
1370cals
190g pro
74g carbs
34g fat
i am a bit suspicious of ur bf% considering u said they do it for males. how tall are u? the only prob i have with this is ur eating below BMR every day. but im not sure if ur BMR is correct cuz im unsure about ur bf%..
Last edited by --->>405<<---; 08-19-2012 at 07:55 AM.
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
QK, can your friend rerun the bf% as if u were a gal? tell him to not worry about the girls - aka boob fat
I like the idea of a 50/30/20 split for you given your particular situation and once you can manage 50, can always adjust protein upwards slowly to the 60/20/20.
My smallest meal is at nite...about 350 cals of mostly lean protein and some veggies. I never eat high fat and carbs before bedtime....light meal makes me sleep better and feel better since the food is lighter.
I am interested to see with what u come up with for a meal plan with the splits recommended by 405!!!!
Female Member
Hey 405 and GGR,
thank you
I am 5' 5"
the body calipers will be coming in soon and i can use those to remeasure.. I think since he used an ultrasound it doesnt really matter if it was based on male or female body as far as the amount of fat measured. and since i have been "training" pretty steadily for 10 years ..excpet for the health set backs.. i am not suprised i have a large amount of muscle mass.. also slightly test enhanced at times- - i used to be able to do a 400 lb leg press and 180lb row.. now i am way under 100lbs on both of those. I can't afford the bod pod...although someone told me if i find one at the university it will be cheaper than uscf at $125. not sure if my friend and the gym could remeasure..he is a trainer and they want him to book paying clients-.
I like the idea of the 50/30/20 split.. i seem to be able to have maintained pretty close to that for the past few days- although today i crashed and feeling slightly low grade temp and sore throat (cfids) typical symptoms.. and exhaustion.. tells me i have been over doing-
seems like sticking to the 50/30/20 split for a month will already be a big change for me.. maybe get that underway and see how i do healht and energy wise then tweek it back?
I get that i need to go slow with this process- although it is hard for me.. i used to be fat really fast- and at 45.5 and slightly hypothryoid it takes alot longer-! and an immune system that gets over challanged with exercise.
I am going to toss around the other figures that you put together 405.. right now feeling fatigued and sick.. and i lost 4 lbs in a week.. some of that may have been from the 'monthly cycle ending but when i weighed yesterday at the gym i was down to 183 and that was right after lunch..
you two are amazing and i apprecate your support! I hope you have /are having a nice weekend..
seems like sticking to the 50/30/20 split at around 1500 cals a day.. for a month will already be a big change for me.. maybe get that underway and see how i do healht and energy wise then tweek it back? what about days that i work out. i worked out 6 days out of 7 last week.. and a pretty heavy intensity-- ??
hope this makes sense?
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