Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

[novastepp]

No... will have to try to access full study.


Derived from?
here i was referring to the advantage in being able to eat beforehand.


Explain it as you see it.
now that i cover it again, it couldn't have been much at all.
and i realized that even though there may have been more fatty acid binding protein created, the enduced fat burning was no different. so therefore it didn't matter. good call.



Before I say 'no', explain which bit you're hypothetically attributing to the relatively low protein intake.
here i was just speaking generally. i was just wondering what would have been different if they would have consumed nearly 50% of their total caloric intake from protein, instead of 15%.


That would be awesome.
and about the 6 weeks of each. i'm going to have to do 4 of each. considering i remember 2 years ago when i got sub7%bf in just 8 weeks with only cardio and diet.


-C

always appreciate you making me think. good stuff.

[Deltasaurus]

Fasted Cardio not a must:


1: J Appl Physiol. 2008 Apr;104(4):1045-55. Epub 2008 Feb 14.
Effect of training in the fasted state on metabolic responses during exercise with carbohydrate intake.

De Bock K, Derave W, Eijnde BO, Hesselink MK, Koninckx E, Rose AJ, Schrauwen P, Bonen A, Richter EA, Hespel P.
Research Center for Exercise and Health, F.A.B.E.R. - K.U.Leuven, Tervuursevest 101, B-3001 Leuven Heverlee, Belgium.
Skeletal muscle gene response to exercise depends on nutritional status during and after exercise, but it is unknown whether muscle adaptations to endurance training are affected by nutritional status during training sessions. Therefore, this study investigated the effect of an endurance training program (6 wk, 3 day/wk, 1-2 h, 75% of peak Vo(2)) in moderately active males. They trained in the fasted (F; n = 10) or carbohydrate-fed state (CHO; n = 10) while receiving a standardized diet [65 percent of total energy intake (En) from carbohydrates, 20%En fat, 15%En protein]. Before and after the training period, substrate use during a 2-h exercise bout was determined. During these experimental sessions, all subjects were in a fed condition and received extra carbohydrates (1 g.kg body wt(-1) .h(-1)). Peak Vo(2) (+7%), succinate dehydrogenase activity, GLUT4, and hexokinase II content were similarly increased between F and CHO. Fatty acid binding protein (FABPm) content increased significantly in F (P = 0.007). Intramyocellular triglyceride content (IMCL) remained unchanged in both groups. After training, pre-exercise glycogen content was higher in CHO (545 +/- 19 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.02), but not in F (434 +/- 32 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.23). For a given initial glycogen content, F blunted exercise-induced glycogen breakdown when compared with CHO (P = 0.04). Neither IMCL breakdown (P = 0.23) nor fat oxidation rates during exercise were altered by training. Thus short-term training elicits similar adaptations in peak Vo(2) whether carried out in the fasted or carbohydrate-fed state. Although there was a decrease in exercise-induced glycogen breakdown and an increase in proteins involved in fat handling after fasting training, fat oxidation during exercise with carbohydrate intake was not changed.


-CNS

so what im getting out of this is if i wake up and do cardio or wake up eat and then do cardio im going to burn the same amount of fat either way?

[Narkissos]

so what im getting out of this is if i wake up and do cardio or wake up eat and then do cardio im going to burn the same amount of fat either way?

Technically.

Like I've said previously, the most important factor in doing cardio is actually doing it.

-C

[smokeyd]

nark im fixing to do a drastic cut, do i need to cut out the caisin before bed or just go ahead and incorporate it into my macros

[novastepp]

nark im fixing to do a drastic cut, do i need to cut out the caisin before bed or just go ahead and incorporate it into my macros

I know you asked Nark, but I say work it in. No need to cut any slow-digesting protein source from a cutter. If it fits in, I'd stay with it.

Nark can also give his $.02

[Narkissos]

I know you asked Nark, but I say work it in. No need to cut any slow-digesting protein source from a cutter. If it fits in, I'd stay with it.

Nark can also give his $.02

[Narkissos]

nark im fixing to do a drastic cut, do i need to cut out the caisin before bed or just go ahead and incorporate it into my macros

That isn't an 'either/or' question.

Calculate how many calories you need... and what your protein requirement is.

Your supplementation should support your requirements... not supersede them.

Work backwards from your requirements bro.

-CNS

[paddy155]

Hi nark. I would like to know if I should be focusing on taking in all three BCAA's or should I focus on just leucine. Whatever I decide to take,how do I know how much to take and what is the correct time to consume them. Thanks.

[novastepp]

Hi nark. I would like to know if I should be focusing on taking in all three BCAA's or should I focus on just leucine. Whatever I decide to take,how do I know how much to take and what is the correct time to consume them. Thanks.

i answered you in another thread, but if you read the first couple of pages in this thread, Nark addresses this topic extremely well.

[Rugger02]

Props to you guys on keeping an informative and very useful thread going.
I posted my diet in this Forum when I first started and tweaked it considerably as I continued to learn.
I started off at about 18% BF and now I'm at about 13%
As time goes on my weight loss is slowing down, but I guess that's to be expected. I'd like to post up my current stats and my current diet and see if you guys can help me take it to the next level. The best advise I've read in the Diet Forum has come from either Nark, Nova, Pinnacle or Perfect Beast. I'd love to see what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing right in the opinion of the pros.

I'll get the info for you fellas as soon as I got all the numbers written up.

Thanks in advance gents

[novastepp]

Props to you guys on keeping an informative and very useful thread going.
I posted my diet in this Forum when I first started and tweaked it considerably as I continued to learn.
I started off at about 18% BF and now I'm at about 13%
As time goes on my weight loss is slowing down, but I guess that's to be expected. I'd like to post up my current stats and my current diet and see if you guys can help me take it to the next level. The best advise I've read in the Diet Forum has come from either Nark, Nova, Pinnacle or Perfect Beast. I'd love to see what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing right in the opinion of the pros.

I'll get the info for you fellas as soon as I got all the numbers written up.

Thanks in advance gents

keep it up. sounds like you may be nearing the stage at which you need to start manipulating different aspects of your approach. whether its cardio, or diet, or maybe even training all together. post up what you're doing and your diet and we'll see if we can tweak some more body fat out of it.

[Prada]

Yup Nark and Nova (or as I like to call them N2, as in N squared) are definitely doing some well appreciated forum benevolence. I dont think they get enough credit. Really they don't. I wish I had the time to help out somewhat but they are doing a great job.

[novastepp]

Yup Nark and Nova (or as I like to call them N2, as in N squared) are definitely doing some well appreciated forum benevolence. I dont think they get enough credit. Really they don't. I wish I had the time to help out somewhat but they are doing a great job.

N2

[Deltasaurus]

Im 5'9 20yrs old 180lbs WO 5-6 days a week no gear and probally 13% bf if u wanna guess check my new pics http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=346821also im trying for a "serious cut" hoping to get down sub 10% never had abs B4 really want them
6am wake up to 30-40 mins cardio 65% HR

get home at 6:50am and i eat 1/2 oat meal and drink 1/2 eggwhites and another 1/2 cup oat meal

oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gs carbs 52 protein 10

eggwhites 60cals
fat 0 carbs 0 protein12gs

go back to sleep wake up at 9am

eat 1 cup oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gscarbs 52 protein 10

the 1/2 cup egg whites oats and eggs white cooked this time .
egg whites 60cals
fat 0 carb 0 protein 12

11:30-12:00 1/2 can tuna 105 cals

fat 1.25 carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5g carb 52gs protein10gs

2:30-3:00pm 4oz 93+% lean beef 152 cals
fat 6 gs carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5 carb 52 protein 10

6:00p 8oz sweet potatoes yellow inside think the SP 206cals
fat 0 carb 48 pro 5ish

Extra vir Olive oil EVO 1/2tbsp cals 60
fat 7gs carb 0 pro 0

5oz chicken brest 150cals
fat 3 carb 0 pro 32

then workout for 1 1/2 hours plus 30mins cardio 65-70%HR

then pwo nutrition
9:00pm
1 1/2 scoops whey protein 180cals
fat 1.5 carb 1.5 protein 36

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5gs carb 52 pro 10

then b4 bed cup no fat cottage cheese as casein protein 160 cals fat0 carbs6 26 grams protein

tbsp evo 120 cals 14gs fat


fat=51ish carb=263 ish pro=211ish
should be around kcal480 should be around 1100 should be around 840 daily total 2400kcals
and another thing
i didnt calc but i was going for 45% carbs 20% fat 35% protein i think its about right lemme know if anythings of or what not
thats about what i do more or less every day and i belive its working

wait i calc'ed and i need more carbs where to i put them???

[paddy155]

Nova,I read the first couple of pages and I am still unsure what to do. Do I take in all 3 BCAAs or should I focus on Lecuine. I also do not know how much of each is the the norm to take. Can someone give me some advice on this subject as it is a grey area with me.

[novastepp]

Nova,I read the first couple of pages and I am still unsure what to do. Do I take in all 3 BCAAs or should I focus on Lecuine. I also do not know how much of each is the the norm to take. Can someone give me some advice on this subject as it is a grey area with me.

i bumped a previous post, for Nark to comment on.

In my personal experience I have used all 3 BCAA's. this is before any true knowledge driving me to do otherwise.

I would simply add 15g of BCAAs, 5g of creatine monohydrate, and 32 oz of water, with crystal light (lemondae flavor...to taste) in a shaker and sip it before, during, and finish it after my workout.

i can't find the article that stated how BCAAs and some carbohydrates before, during, and after exercise helped increase protein synthesis. i'm going to keep looking because it presented a lot of information about nutrition surrounding workouts.

[novastepp]

Im 5'9 20yrs old 180lbs WO 5-6 days a week no gear and probally 13% bf if u wanna guess check my new pics http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=346821also im trying for a "serious cut" hoping to get down sub 10% never had abs B4 really want them
6am wake up to 30-40 mins cardio 65% HR

get home at 6:50am and i eat 1/2 oat meal and drink 1/2 eggwhites and another 1/2 cup oat meal

oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gs carbs 52 protein 10

eggwhites 60cals
fat 0 carbs 0 protein12gs

go back to sleep wake up at 9am

eat 1 cup oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gscarbs 52 protein 10

the 1/2 cup egg whites oats and eggs white cooked this time .
egg whites 60cals
fat 0 carb 0 protein 12

11:30-12:00 1/2 can tuna 105 cals

fat 1.25 carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5g carb 52gs protein10gs

2:30-3:00pm 4oz 93+% lean beef 152 cals
fat 6 gs carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5 carb 52 protein 10

6:00p 8oz sweet potatoes yellow inside think the SP 206cals
fat 0 carb 48 pro 5ish

Extra vir Olive oil EVO 1/2tbsp cals 60
fat 7gs carb 0 pro 0

5oz chicken brest 150cals
fat 3 carb 0 pro 32

then workout for 1 1/2 hours plus 30mins cardio 65-70%HR

then pwo nutrition
9:00pm
1 1/2 scoops whey protein 180cals
fat 1.5 carb 1.5 protein 36

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5gs carb 52 pro 10

then b4 bed cup no fat cottage cheese as casein protein 160 cals fat0 carbs6 26 grams protein

tbsp evo 120 cals 14gs fat


fat=51ish carb=263 ish pro=211ish
should be around kcal480 should be around 1100 should be around 840 daily total 2400kcals
and another thing
i didnt calc but i was going for 45% carbs 20% fat 35% protein i think its about right lemme know if anythings of or what not
thats about what i do more or less every day and i belive its working

wait i calc'ed and i need more carbs where to i put them???

at this point u have the right idea. i just think you should even out your carbs a bit. shoot for 35-45g per meal. you dont need large amounts. keep cals at about 2200 for the day. fill in any needed cals with protein at that point and keep those evened out too. 45-50g a meal should work. dietary fat will add some cals, and you can supplement any extra fats in as you see fit. but you can experiment with increasing your carbs to make up for the difference too if your workouts struggle. just monitor all aspects of your progress and training and correct from there.

also, i would go ahead and do an hour of cardio in the mornings, between 60-65% MHR.

[Narkissos]

Im 5'9 20yrs old 180lbs WO 5-6 days a week no gear and probally 13% bf if u wanna guess check my new pics http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=346821

16%

also im trying for a "serious cut" hoping to get down sub 10% never had abs B4 really want them
6am wake up to 30-40 mins cardio 65% HR

get home at 6:50am and i eat 1/2 oat meal and drink 1/2 eggwhites and another 1/2 cup oat meal

oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gs carbs 52 protein 10

eggwhites 60cals
fat 0 carbs 0 protein12gs

Too many carbs

go back to sleep wake up at 9am

eat 1 cup oatmeal 300 cals

fat 5gscarbs 52 protein 10

the 1/2 cup egg whites oats and eggs white cooked this time .
egg whites 60cals
fat 0 carb 0 protein 12

Too many carbs.

11:30-12:00 1/2 can tuna 105 cals

fat 1.25 carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5g carb 52gs protein10gs

Too many carbs.

2:30-3:00pm 4oz 93+% lean beef 152 cals
fat 6 gs carb 0 protein 24

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5 carb 52 protein 10

Too many carbs.

6:00p 8oz sweet potatoes yellow inside think the SP 206cals
fat 0 carb 48 pro 5ish

Extra vir Olive oil EVO 1/2tbsp cals 60
fat 7gs carb 0 pro 0

5oz chicken brest 150cals
fat 3 carb 0 pro 32

then workout for 1 1/2 hours plus 30mins cardio 65-70%HR

then pwo nutrition
9:00pm
1 1/2 scoops whey protein 180cals
fat 1.5 carb 1.5 protein 36

cup of oats 300 cals
fat 5gs carb 52 pro 10

then b4 bed cup no fat cottage cheese as casein protein 160 cals fat0 carbs6 26 grams protein

tbsp evo 120 cals 14gs fat


fat=51ish carb=263 ish pro=211ish
should be around kcal480 should be around 1100 should be around 840 daily total 2400kcals
and another thing

I've typed 'too many carbs' too many times for this critique.. So i'll cease at this point.

You're cutting... Your bodyfat is on the 'high side' of moderate.

Cutting, like bulking... hinges on consuming the proper amount of calories.

The 'proper' amount is relative to your LBM and other factors... but we stress LBM as primary.

Right now you're just piling the carbs in indiscriminately.

i didnt calc but i was going for 45% carbs 20% fat 35% protein i think its about right lemme know if anythings of or what not
thats about what i do more or less every day and i belive its working

wait i calc'ed and i need more carbs where to i put them???

2200kcals is where you be around.

Work backward from that point.

-CNS

[Deltasaurus]

Ok here it is just the Diet

Meal 1
1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

3/4 cup oats cal 225
fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5

meal 2
1/2 cup egg whites cal 120
Fat 0 carb 0 pro 12

3/4 cup oats cal 225
fat3.75 carb40 pro7.5

meal 3
1/2 can tuna cal 100
fat .75 carb 0 pro 24

6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

meal 4
4 oz lean beef cal 150
fat 6 carb 0 pro 24

3/4 cup oat cal 225
fat 3.75 carb 40 pro 7.5

meal 5
5 oz Chicken Breast cal 150
fat 3 carb 0 pro 36

6oz Sweet Potatoe w/ skin cal 150
fat 0 carb 36 pro 3.75

1/2 Tbsp EVO cal 60
fat 7 carb 0 pro 0

meal 6 PWO Nutr.
2 scoops whey cal 240
fat 2 carb 2 pro 48
1 cup oats cal 300
fat 5 carb 52 pro 10 <---------i think this meal may be to much pro and carbs but waiting 4 ur input

MEAL 7 1 cup no fat cottage cheese 160 cals
fat 0 carb 6 pro 26

1 tbsp EVO 120 cals
fat 14 carb 0 pro 0

totals kcals Carbs 1000 pro 770 fat 440

in grams carbs=250G
pro=192
fat=48

ok give a take a few cals or grams my calcs are a little of i belive but not enough to matter

hope this is good thanks a million

-AJ

[Scarface69]

how do you guys compair/like oatmeal with oat bran as a carb source?

[Scarface69]

how do you guys compair oatmeal with oat bran as a carb source?

bump^^

[Deltasaurus]

thanks so much so u think i just lower cals to 2200 hundred no problem

[novastepp]

thanks so much so u think i just lower cals to 2200 hundred no problem

based on your size and bf% i put you right around that mark at maintenance. so with the cardio and clean diet and evenly spread macros i think you should start losing nicely. after a couple weeks, you might begin dropping some cals and reevaluating totals. do that when you can see notices in the mirror.

[Deltasaurus]

just another ? how do u figure 2200 maintenance

[novastepp]

just another ? how do u figure 2200 maintenance

nope. not maintenance, my bad. that was dropping to a fat burning level based on your activity level. it could actually be anywhere from 2200-2457, but when you said you were going to add more carbs i figured you would replace some cals, so i was just waiting for you to redo the diet. you can just edit the post and i'll look back at it, or you can repost it.

haha all these numbers its easy to move them around.

[bodybuilder1107]

what is the best ratio for a clean bulk with test e and a prop kickstart? thanks i wanna put on as much mass as possible with minimal fat because i wanna do 2 cycles over a year and then cut

[Narkissos]

what is the best ratio for a clean bulk with test e and a prop kickstart? thanks i wanna put on as much mass as possible with minimal fat because i wanna do 2 cycles over a year and then cut

What you're injecting shouldn't affect the ratio of what you're ingesting.. unless you're applying a nutrient-partitioning agent like slin/IGF-1... or an agent which significantly increases feed efficiency, like trenbolone.

The short answer?

40/40/20.

^^Baseline.

-CNS

[bodybuilder1107]

What you're injecting shouldn't affect the ratio of what you're ingesting.. unless you're applying a nutrient-partitioning agent like slin/IGF-1... or an agent which significantly increases feed efficiency, like trenbolone.

The short answer?

40/40/20.

^^Baseline.

-CNS

would 50prot/30carb/20 fat be allright for me i tend to put fat on easily

[Narkissos]

would 50prot/30carb/20 fat be allright for me i tend to put fat on easily

If you 'tend to put on fat easily' look at your carb, protein, & fat sources... Look at your blood work.

More protein does not mean more muscle.

-CNS

[bodybuilder1107]

If you 'tend to put on fat easily' look at your carb, protein, & fat sources... Look at your blood work.

More protein does not mean more muscle.

-CNS

well not that easy and when i do its alot of pizza and mcdonalds diet so i guess its logical but i see what your saying

[Narkissos]

^^Pizza and McDonalds?

[bodybuilder1107]

thats not what i eat now im just saying before i got back into the gym i could eat pizza and the next day my pants would literally be too tight i could put on like 5 pounds a week, i was in a rough relation shipo but im out and back now and lost most of waht i put on from the stress life i had

[Narkissos]

thats not what i eat now im just saying before i got back into the gym i could eat pizza and the next day my pants would literally be too tight i could put on like 5 pounds a week, i was in a rough relation shipo but im out and back now and lost most of waht i put on from the stress life i had

Exactly my point.

My post suggested that you look at food choices: re: pizza

...as well as blood work: re: stress levels.

Rough relationship = high cortisol output = blunted glucose tolerance.

Pizza = poor food choice.

Factors combined = fat.

-CNS

[Deltasaurus]

i re-did the diet and made it fit a 2200 cals but i do WO 5-6 days a week and cardio once if not twice a fay for 30-40 mins but i really just wanna cut that my primary goal im not really worried about losing some muscle i have no problem buidling muscle but lose BF is always hard for me but i still have my old diet if i need to do the 2400 cals
so whadaya think hmmmmm?

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

Hey nark,

I read in another thread that you take bromelain every 3 hours so I thought you'd be the ideal person to ask.

For digestion purposes, when is the best time to take bromelain? with a meal or before?

For anti-inflammation, I know you have to take it on an empty stomach.. but how would you go about taking bromelain daily for both its digestive and anti-inflammatory benefits!

Thanks man

[Narkissos]

Hey nark,

I read in another thread that you take bromelain every 3 hours so I thought you'd be the ideal person to ask.

For digestion purposes, when is the best time to take bromelain? with a meal or before?

For anti-inflammation, I know you have to take it on an empty stomach.. but how would you go about taking bromelain daily for both its digestive and anti-inflammatory benefits!

Thanks man

Nice thought-provoking question buddy!

I may have to disappoint though, because i won't have a long-winded reply

It's a matter of simplicity w/ this enzyme.

i.e. when dosing frequency goes up, the 'when' of administration becomes less important.

^^Kind of an overstatement, but i'll explain.

Bromelain levels peak about an hour post-administration.

So ideally it'd serve 'best' for digestive purposes if this product is consumed 1hr before meals.

However... when taken on an empty stomach, approximately 40% of bromelain is absorbed into the blood stream... where it can stimulate the production and release of anti-inflammatory prostaglandins, as well as simultaneously reduce the production and release of proinflammatory prostaglandins[1][2]

I took bromelain every 3 hours tru-out the day to keep levels more or less constant.

If your 3-hour mark happens to fall 1hr before each meal, you've got the best of both worlds.

Like i said above however, as dosing frequency goes up... the 'when' ceases to be as important... as long as the intervals are constant.

-CNS


References:

1. Taussig, S. " The mechanism of the physiological action of bromelain" Med Hypoth 6 (1980): 99-104.
2. Kelly, G. "Bromelain: A literature review and discussion of its therapeutic applications" Alt Med Rev 1 (1996): 243-57.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

^^^ That's some rock solid info, it makes perfect sense!!

Thanx for the knowledge!
Much appreciated ,
cheers

[Narkissos]

^^^ That's some rock solid info, it makes perfect sense!!

Thanx for the knowledge!
Much appreciated ,
cheers

np mate.

[Deltasaurus]

OK i will now be posting my new diet for u to approve

[Deltasaurus]

thanks Nova. ok ill guess il switch that up. and i wanted to know nark said drinking oats and eating egg whites or vica versa VS eatin them whole didnt matter to any signifacnt degree. can i drink both or does that not properly get my Metabolism going?