LMAO @ the UK

[Undercover]

Some many wrong things posted in this thread. I don't even know where to start.

Let me make this clear, I respect their culture and religion. It is there's and they can have it...just keep it to yourself and keep it in your sandbox over there.

When you impose it on non-muslim nations, then you should be eradicated with extreme prejudice.

wow that was very xenophobic and close-minded.

You don't realise that you're just as bad as the muslims who want to be treated differently. Both sides have to work for integration to happen.

The things mentioned in the articles you posted, true or not, are horrible. I'm pretty sure, though, that most muslims in the UK have no idea. So why get angry and start calling people scum and pleading for mass eradication? Dangerous way of thinking. Nazis had that very same idea about Jews. THEY'RE TAKING OVER! OH GOD SOMEONE STOP THEM! and I guess we all know how that story ended.

What the News SHOULDN'T DO is demonise this, turn people into hate fearing xenophobes. What the news should do is condemn the MP that would try and pass a certain law. The Telegraph and Mail are both very dubious sources.

Precisely.

After all thats all they are . They dont belong . And if they dont like the laws fvck off back to your own country .

lol wtf. they're not visitors, they're citizens. now if you're suggesting that 'real' citizens have to be white.....

Example: while working in Iraq i travelled out from Basra each day, there as an area where people waited for contract work in the morning, after that area there was another one where they picked up there little boys for the day "women are for making babies, boys are for pleasure" i was told, it's our culture etc etc. Respect it NO, acept that it's what they have done for a long time, yes.

How is that part of the culture? you don't judge cultures based on the sayings of a paedophile.

I was told over and over you can't wear shorts while working as it offends the people,,,ok, women needed to wear burka's while out in the street there,,,ok. So why can't we say that these things offend us in our countries when they come here, I don't like seeing a burka on a woman in my country

It's not the same thing. Anything you wear that's above the knee is considered offensive in Islam. Are burkas offensive to your culture? If that were the case, they would have banned ghost costumes in Halloween a long time ago. It just annoys you because it's a muslim woman under the burka....latent intolerance.

Having said that, I do think it's retarded that someone asked you to wear pants while you work. What year and what country was it?


Seriously guys, I have to say I'm truly disappointed. The Daily Mail and BNP? Since when is white nationalism cool again?

[MuscleScience]

Some many wrong things posted in this thread. I don't even know where to start.



wow that was very xenophobic and close-minded.

You don't realise that you're just as bad as the muslims who want to be treated differently. Both sides have to work for integration to happen.

The things mentioned in the articles you posted, true or not, are horrible. I'm pretty sure, though, that most muslims in the UK have no idea. So why get angry and start calling people scum and pleading for mass eradication? Dangerous way of thinking. Nazis had that very same idea about Jews. THEY'RE TAKING OVER! OH GOD SOMEONE STOP THEM! and I guess we all know how that story ended.



Precisely.



lol wtf. they're not visitors, they're citizens. now if you're suggesting that 'real' citizens have to be white.....



How is that part of the culture? you don't judge cultures based on the sayings of a paedophile.



It's not the same thing. Anything you wear that's above the knee is considered offensive in Islam. Are burkas offensive to your culture? If that were the case, they would have banned ghost costumes in Halloween a long time ago. It just annoys you because it's a muslim woman under the burka....latent intolerance.

Having said that, I do think it's retarded that someone asked you to wear pants while you work. What year and what country was it?


Seriously guys, I have to say I'm truly disappointed. The Daily Mail and BNP? Since when is white nationalism cool again?

It hasnt been cool to be white in a long time, I think that is where a lot of outrage and anger come from. Being white and proud is not only not cool it gets labeled as racist. Frankly White people are sick and tired of being demonized by everyone including other bleeding heart whites.

[BgMc31]

It hasnt been cool to be white in a long time, I think that is where a lot of outrage and anger come from. Being white and proud is not only not cool it gets labeled as racist. Frankly White people are sick and tired of being demonized by everyone including other bleeding heart whites.

That's not true. Being a supremacists is labeled as racist. Whites try to make that assertion all the time, but it's simply not true. Demonizing others and criticizing other's beliefs and cultures because it's different, labeling it inferior makes it racists or xenophobic.

Minorities don't mind whites being proud of their cultures. Eminem is still cool, Tom Brady is still the coolest cat in the NFL, whites still make more money than anybody else. There are many organizations that whites have that aren't racists organization and they express pride for their cultures (Knights of Columbus, Scottish Clan Societies, etc.).

Whites for years have been telling minorities for years to get over the past and stop bitching. It's time you practiced what you preach. Chris Rock said it best, "What are you complaining about....YOU'RE WHITE!!!" LOL!!!!

[Undercover]

That's because it's really stupid to be proud of your race...any race. Why are you proud of being white? You are only white because you were born white. You certainly didn't work your way to being white. So why are you proud?

I also find it silly when minorities' [INSERT RACE HERE] PRIDE is tolerated, while white pride is considered racist. Both are equally dumb, and the reasons why one would be more tolerable, are, without a doubt, political.

[MuscleScience]

That's not true. Being a supremacists is labeled as racist. Whites try to make that assertion all the time, but it's simply not true. Demonizing others and criticizing other's beliefs and cultures because it's different, labeling it inferior makes it racists or xenophobic.

Minorities don't mind whites being proud of their cultures. Eminem is still cool, Tom Brady is still the coolest cat in the NFL, whites still make more money than anybody else. There are many organizations that whites have that aren't racists organization and they express pride for their cultures (Knights of Columbus, Scottish Clan Societies, etc.).

Whites for years have been telling minorities for years to get over the past and stop bitching. It's time you practiced what you preach. Chris Rock said it best, "What are you complaining about....YOU'RE WHITE!!!" LOL!!!!

I disagree, you cant display that your a proud white male and not seem like a supremacist. The worst thing you can call someone in America is a racist and it gets thrown at people way to fast. No matter how you try to argue with me I cant agree sorry. Eminem is white but most white people dont really view him as White America at all, at least me and my peers dont. And Tom Brady is a complete cheese dick, no one can stand him...LOL

[MuscleScience]

That's because it's really stupid to be proud of your race...any race. Why are you proud of being white? You are only white because you were born white. You certainly didn't work your way to being white. So why are you proud?

I also find it silly when minorities' [INSERT RACE HERE] PRIDE is tolerated, while white pride is considered racist. Both are equally dumb, and the reasons why one would be more tolerable, are, without a doubt, political.

Thats not true, my ancestors where white, worked hard to make a life for them and there children. They worked hard at being part of a greater society as a whole. I see no luck involved, if they my ancestors were not doing something right then I would not be alive to be proud of who I am. I am proud of who I am because the of the people before were who they were. If they were black, asian, native american or whatever I would feel the same way. Being apathetic to ones own race is worse in my view than being a racist. Being apathetic is how one loses their cultural identity and to me that is disrespecting all those ancestors before you. Thats just how I feel though, someone can call me racist if you want I dont really care.

[Undercover]

Thats not true, my ancestors where white, worked hard to make a life for them and there children. They worked hard at being part of a greater society as a whole. I see no luck involved, if they my ancestors were not doing something right then I would not be alive to be proud of who I am. I am proud of who I am because the of the people before were who they were. If they were black, asian, native american or whatever I would feel the same way. Being apathetic to ones own race is worse in my view than being a racist. Being apathetic is how one loses their cultural identity and to me that is disrespecting all those ancestors before you. Thats just how I feel though, someone can call me racist if you want I dont really care.

Your ancestors are white and not black because of luck.

If you are going to be proud no matter who your ancestors were, it doesn't make sense to be proud of your race.

Your ancestors worked for their society and not you. You didn't do anything to contribute. What you can be proud of is the society and other socities you lived in, because you're a contributing member.

To make things clearer, think about this. Your ancestors slaughtered and enslaved people. Do you feel guilty all the time about being white? No? but why? I'm sure your answer would be "because I had nothing to do with it". Well, there you go. Being proud or "apathetic" (as you put it) are both equally dumb.

[Bio-boosted]

My alma mater holds cultural exchange fairs at school, the muslim student groups usually have the biggest turn outs from all groups when they hold an event. Never ever seen any problems or fights or anything like that. In fact there is usually never any security seen other than the normal UCop that rides their little golf cart thing around. My best friend in the world dated a Persian girl that migrated to Turkey with her family and later came to school here. She would always stress to us especially after 9/11 that Muslims dont hate the US as much as both Domestic and International news sources would have us Americans believe.

Honestly there is a relatively large muslim population in my community and they are as integrated into the university and community as much as any other group if not more. I never hear of problems that anyone is having. Now the Mexicans is a different story, if there is a group in PARTS (stress the part of the country) of the US that is being came down on harder than others there is where I would bet my money.


All I know is where I am from no one gives a shit what someone else is doing. All we want is to be left the hell alone (especially from the government) and let us live like we want to live and raise our families.

Many thanks MS.
Interesting, because integration over here is minimal. Separation (not segregation) seems to be encouraged by Imams, especially in the education system. It's not good for the future of the kids. All they will know is, 'us vs them', if we're not careful.

[MuscleScience]

Your ancestors are white and not black because of luck.

If you are going to be proud no matter who your ancestors were, it doesn't make sense to be proud of your race.

Your ancestors worked for their society and not you. You didn't do anything to contribute. What you can be proud of is the society and other socities you lived in, because you're a contributing member.

To make things clearer, think about this. Your ancestors slaughtered and enslaved people. Do you feel guilty all the time about being white? No? but why? I'm sure your answer would be "because I had nothing to do with it". Well, there you go. Being proud or "apathetic" (as you put it) are both equally dumb.

I am a direct contribution to the society they built, that is why you work for a better life so that you can pass your culture, values, experiences and everything else on to your offspring. You may call it luck or whatever but I am still proud lucky or not of being white and identifying with who I am and who my ancestors were.

Just to be clear I do not believe my ancestors slaughtered or enslaved people. Not all white people owned slaves and conquered "savages".

[Undercover]

I am a direct contribution to the society they built, that is why you work for a better life so that you can pass your culture, values, experiences and everything else on to your offspring. You may call it luck or whatever but I am still proud lucky or not of being white and identifying with who I am and who my ancestors were.

How? the society they built was passed on and no longer exists. If your offspring's generation makes all the wrong choices, their society would fall apart no matter how good their ancestors made it to be.

Imagine this. You are born into a rich family. Your father worked his ass off to get to where he is. Every year, your father gives you and your siblings tens of thousands of dollars. On your 18th birthday, you've saved up enough to buy a really expensive car. You drive around with your car all happy and proud.

In the above example, the only person that can be proud of his accomplishments is your father. You were born into a rich family, by luck. You are no better than any person out there who can't afford your car. You didn't work for it, so why are you proud?

Your ancestors are your rich family. The society you live in is the money they left you. You don't get to be proud of that. Tell me, how did you contribute to something when you didn't even exist?

Just to be clear I do not believe my ancestors slaughtered or enslaved people. Not all white people owned slaves and conquered "savages".

Remember, you never claimed to be proud of your direct ancestors. You said you're proud of your race as a whole. That includes everyone with all their ups and downs. So why don't you feel guilty?

[dangerous dan]

Great thread, but its put a right downer on me.
im from england myself and where i live theres a big pakistani comunity. all what youve said is correct, personalyy i hate them there vile. bad attitudes and the most slimey things on earth, makes me sick, a local cafe stoped selling bacon sarnies other day because it was offending the fukkers. myself i think bnp will take over, in around 6years and when they do...let the fun begin

[MuscleScience]

How? the society they built was passed on and no longer exists. If your offspring's generation makes all the wrong choices, their society would fall apart no matter how good their ancestors made it to be.

Imagine this. You are born into a rich family. Your father worked his ass off to get to where he is. Every year, your father gives you and your siblings tens of thousands of dollars. On your 18th birthday, you've saved up enough to buy a really expensive car. You drive around with your car all happy and proud.

In the above example, the only person that can be proud of his accomplishments is your father. You were born into a rich family, by luck. You are no better than any person out there who can't afford your car. You didn't work for it, so why are you proud?

Your ancestors are your rich family. The society you live in is the money they left you. You don't get to be proud of that. Tell me, how did you contribute to something when you didn't even exist?



Remember, you never claimed to be proud of your direct ancestors. You said you're proud of your race as a whole. That includes everyone with all their ups and downs. So why don't you feel guilty?

I guess your bound and determined to show me that being proud of who I am is dumb and I should be ashamed of the white race as a whole because some of its past is filled with murder, destruction, slavery and outright evilness. Which is all true of course I am certainly not proud of those things in the white race. And whether its luck or not that I was born white, I dont care I still am proud.

Maybe saying I am proud of the whole white race is a bit to broad because I am not versed in all of Caucasian history , I should say more so that I am proud of my German Heritage more than anything. And yes we could go into German history too and pound me over the head with why I should be ashamed of that. Well to tell you the truth all that does sadden me greatly. 11 years, out of an entire history sure put a smear on things for Germany. I could dive into that all cultures around the world have slaughtered and enslaved their neighbors and or their own. But we all no that is fruitless and doesnt make right what white people have done to themselves or others in the past.

I take personal responsibility for all of the white races short comings along with its triumphs when I say I am proud to be white whether is was a simple matter of luck or not.

[Undercover]

I guess your bound and determined to show me that being proud of who I am is dumb and I should be ashamed of the white race as a whole because some of its past is filled with murder, destruction, slavery and outright evilness. Which is all true of course I am certainly not proud of those things in the white race. And whether its luck or not that I was born white, I dont care I still am proud.

Maybe saying I am proud of the whole white race is a bit to broad because I am not versed in all of Caucasian history , I should say more so that I am proud of my German Heritage more than anything. And yes we could go into German history too and pound me over the head with why I should be ashamed of that. Well to tell you the truth all that does sadden me greatly. 11 years, out of an entire history sure put a smear on things for Germany. I could dive into that all cultures around the world have slaughtered and enslaved their neighbors and or their own. But we all no that is fruitless and doesnt make right what white people have done to themselves or others in the past.

I take personal responsibility for all of the white races short comings along with its triumphs when I say I am proud to be white whether is was a simple matter of luck or not.

I never said you should be ashamed. In fact, i'm 100% against that. I was just trying to show how pointless it is to feel proud (or ashamed) about something you didn't help accomplish. My argument had nothing to do with race. I kind of drifted off-topic, I guess.

Great thread, but its put a right downer on me.
im from england myself and where i live theres a big pakistani comunity. all what youve said is correct, personalyy i hate them there vile. bad attitudes and the most slimey things on earth, makes me sick, a local cafe stoped selling bacon sarnies other day because it was offending the fukkers. myself i think bnp will take over, in around 6years and when they do...let the fun begin

All Pakistanis where you live are vile, have bad attitudes, and are slimey? What a biological breakthrough! We should totally look for the 'evil gene' in their DNA. Honestly, stop making excuses for your racism. It probably only took 2 complaints for the cafe owner to stop selling bacon..afraid he'd lose customers. So who's at fault here? The whole Pakistani population or the cafe owner?

[dangerous dan]

i dont see myself rascist, they come and sponge off the systme, its a joke. pakistanies in there own contry are great. my grandad ect fought for this contry, this is the respect the government show

[dangerous dan]

i hate people who cant see whats hapening over here...undercover are you blind??

[MuscleScience]

I never said you should be ashamed. In fact, i'm 100% against that. I was just trying to show how pointless it is to feel proud (or ashamed) about something you didn't help accomplish. My argument had nothing to do with race. I kind of drifted off-topic, I guess.

Isnt asking me why I dont feel guilty or why do I feel proud about something really the same think as asking why I am not ashamed....

[Undercover]

but you're only angry because they're brown and different.

there are white brits who do the same thing but you don't hate them, do you?

pakistanies in there own contry are great

yeah, i mean as long as they're nowhere near you it's okay!

[dangerous dan]

wtf....white brits i have a view on them doing it actually, but they purposly come to sponge:S

[MuscleScience]

but you're only angry because they're brown and different.

there are white brits who do the same thing but you don't hate them, do you?



yeah, i mean as long as they're nowhere near you it's okay!

Yeah I think that is where a lot of the anger and hatred comes from. Why do we have to be forced to live next to and many times pay for people that are not remotely like us, white or not. I mean I would be seriously pissed if my government let a bunch of french men role into town on government support and set up Little Paris in my neighborhood. Why do I have to then be tolerant of their views all of a sudden and pretend that I would also like to live in France. I cant stand the French, even if they are white....LOL

[Undercover]

Isnt asking me why I dont feel guilty or why do I feel proud about something really the same think as asking why I am not ashamed....

Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was trying to show you how you should also feel ashamed if you feel proud (following your train of thought). With ups, there are downs. With pride, comes shame.

[Flagg]

i dont see myself rascist, they come and sponge off the systme, its a joke. pakistanies in there own contry are great. my grandad ect fought for this contry, this is the respect the government show

You're not the only person who had relatives fight and die for their country and the reason they were fighting and dying was to rid the world of oppressive ideologies like the BNP. When I was born I was named after my Grandads brother that died during World War II and if some of these old fellas were alive today and could see the racial devide that continues to grow they'd probably wonder why the **** they bothered.

People will abuse the system and will always abuse the system and it has nothing to do with colour. Or do you believe that the "slimey pakistanis" were responsible for the world recession as well.

Generals, senators, oil magnates, politicians and computer billionaires. These are the people that are responsible for the world you and I live in today.

[dangerous dan]

i never said i were the only person:S.....they fought for this contry....this is no longer england, they would turn in there fukin graves....

[MuscleScience]

Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was trying to show you how you should also feel ashamed if you feel proud (following your train of thought). With ups, there are downs. With pride, comes shame.

Yes I agree with pride comes shame. If you have too much shame then you are not proud. I think if you go back through a lot of my post you will see that I am the first one to point out shameful points in every argument. I know my racial shit dont stink, I know what whites have done to others which I am certainly not proud of. I also know what none whites have done to others as well. So in a sense I am ashamed of points in the past of the Human Race. However I am not ashamed to be human. Just so were are in agreement...LOL

[Undercover]

Yeah I think that is where a lot of the anger and hatred comes from. Why do we have to be forced to live next to and many times pay for people that are not remotely like us, white or not. I mean I would be seriously pissed if my government let a bunch of french men role into town on government support and set up Little Paris in my neighborhood. Why do I have to then be tolerant of their views all of a sudden and pretend that I would also like to live in France. I cant stand the French, even if they are white....LOL

They're not invading your country. Your, mostly, WHITE government is letting them in. They're not setting all those ridiculous laws..your WHITE government is. But then people get all angry and start blaming the BROWN people. Why is that? Is it because of xenophobia? intolerance? It doesn't have to be about race. It's just fear of what's different. The wider the cultural gap, the more the fear.

If you let the French in because of whatever reasons, you have to expect a mini-Paris here and there. Adaptation is a slow process. Life is very different in France or Pakistan, why do you expect them to adapt so quickly to your culture? It's going to take time, but giving up to religious idiots doesn't help either.

It scares me when people start talking about mass eradication and express such violent ideas, all because they're angry a woman is wearing a burka somewhere in europe. Didn't we learn anything from WW2?

This is what I call LATENT XENOPHOBIA (yes i'm coining my own terms now:P). People who are not that vocal about it, but make up excuses to jump on the hate wagon. Finally, when shit hits the fan it's that US against THEM stance.

Yes I agree with pride comes shame. If you have too much shame then you are not proud. I think if you go back through a lot of my post you will see that I am the first one to point out shameful points in every argument. I know my racial shit dont stink, I know what whites have done to others which I am certainly not proud of. I also know what none whites have done to others as well. So in a sense I am ashamed of points in the past of the Human Race. However I am not ashamed to be human. Just so were are in agreement...LOL

haha, well I'm not ashamed nor proud about anything somebody else did when I wasn't alive.

[MuscleScience]

They're not invading your country. Your, mostly, WHITE government is letting them in. They're not setting all those ridiculous laws..your WHITE government is. But then people get all angry and start blaming the BROWN people. Why is that? Is it because of xenophobia? intolerance? It doesn't have to be about race. It's just fear of what's different. The wider the cultural gap, the more the fear.

If you let the French in because of whatever reasons, you have to expect a mini-Paris here and there. Adaptation is a slow process. Life is very different in France or Pakistan, why do you expect them to adapt so quickly to your culture? It's going to take time, but giving up to religious idiots doesn't help either.

It scares me when people start talking about mass eradication and express such violent ideas, all because they're angry a woman is wearing a burka somewhere in europe. Didn't we learn anything from WW2?

This is what I call LATENT XENOPHOBIA (yes i'm coining my own terms now:P). People who are not that vocal about it, but make up excuses to jump on the hate wagon. Finally, when shit hits the fan it's that US against THEM stance.



haha, well I'm not ashamed nor proud about anything somebody else did when I wasn't alive.

I can only really speak for myself on this one because I know at least here in the states the country was founded on immigration. So if someone comes here and is willing to follow the law and assimilate then who am I to say that they shouldnt be here to better their life. But I think what really pisses a lot of people off is that the mostly white government listens to the establishment an lets anyone and everyone into the country regardless if they are willing to be a functional member of society. I actually do not believe race plays a big role in America. I mean I as a white male I could not freely move into about 90% of the countries in this world and feel safe or become a welcomed part of society regardless of how hard I tried. I think Western European societys are the most tolerant in the world. You can argue they are not until your blue in the face but I do not see any other countries out there allowing the number of immigrants to influx into their country as Europe or the US is allowing.

[energizer bunny]

the way i see it is this......if your a foreigner in another country then you must obey the laws of that country....having a belief or a certain point of view is all well and good but when people try to push that down my neck..then thats not right......i wouldnt want or expect to be allowed to go to any country be it china....spain...afganistan etc.....and try and get laws..beliefs...ways of life to change to suit my needs.....

[Undercover]

I can only really speak for myself on this one because I know at least here in the states the country was founded on immigration. So if someone comes here and is willing to follow the law and assimilate then who am I to say that they shouldnt be here to better their life. But I think what really pisses a lot of people off is that the mostly white government listens to the establishment an lets anyone and everyone into the country regardless if they are willing to be a functional member of society. I actually do not believe race plays a big role in America. I mean I as a white male I could not freely move into about 90% of the countries in this world and feel safe or become a welcomed part of society regardless of how hard I tried. I think Western European societys are the most tolerant in the world. You can argue they are not until your blue in the face but I do not see any other countries out there allowing the number of immigrants to influx into their country as Europe or the US is allowing.

Yes, I agree. They let people with practically no education in. Actually, I've lived in the Middle East my entire life and it's pretty hard for anyone there to get into the UK, even with an impressive resume.

I agree. I, myself, am a temporary immigrant in Germany. The people here are generally tolerant. I've never had anything bad happen to me that would suggest otherwise.

I'm just talking about the people who call for extermination of a people who are different than they are, who start posting articles from THE DAILY MAIL (LOL) on internet forums (you know those horrible generalizations) in an attempt to feel better about their intolerance, and then expect you to believe they respect other cultures.

[Matt]

the way i see it is this......if your a foreigner in another country then you must obey the laws of that country....having a belief or a certain point of view is all well and good but when people try to push that down my neck..then thats not right......i wouldnt want or expect to be allowed to go to any country be it china....spain...afganistan etc.....and try and get laws..beliefs...ways of life to change to suit my needs.....

I would agree with that....

[Undercover]

I would agree with that....

But you guys are missing the point. A lot of Immigrants try to adapt. Those are blanket statements you're making.

And why direct your anger at immigrants when you know they're not the ones really making the changes?

[energizer bunny]

what dont you agree with in my statement.....so do you think that an individual or group of people should be able to change laws and regs because its in there beliefs or faith...

laws are laws.......this is a bit off topic but here it is.....in my local shoping centre young people are not allowed to wear there hoods up...and i agree with that but then muslim woman should not be allowed to wear there burkas....am i wrong in thinking that??

[MuscleScience]

Yes, I agree. They let people with practically no education in. Actually, I've lived in the Middle East my entire life and it's pretty hard for anyone there to get into the UK, even with an impressive resume.

I agree. I, myself, am a temporary immigrant in Germany. The people here are generally tolerant. I've never had anything bad happen to me that would suggest otherwise.

I'm just talking about the people who call for extermination of a people who are different than they are, who start posting articles from THE DAILY MAIL (LOL) on internet forums (you know those horrible generalizations) in an attempt to feel better about their intolerance, and then expect you to believe they respect other cultures.

I really do not think anyone is preaching destroying a whole people. That is simply crazy and 99% of practically anyone no matter how racially proud they are would not preach that either. I see what your saying though. You call it Xenophobia but to a lot of people it is a very real feeling to them. Not so much that they are in hate of another race. Its that they are in fear of what the future brings for them and those like them. Change is not easy for people to handle and people fear the unknown. Certainly no one knows the future thus a lot of people fear it.

BTW, how do you like Germany, I should hopefully be there in a year.

[Flagg]

Lets get one thing straight, articles pulled from a rag like The Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph and so are to be taken with a massive pinch of salt. About the only Newspaper I have time for is The Guardian.

As for foreigners adapting...well yes I think they should but it's not as simple as that. Say you found yourself, for whatever reason, living in somewhere like Iran or Afghanistan. You would hate to adapt to that way of life. Yeah im sure you can counter that with "i wouldn't go there in the first place" but you have to remember, that people from those parts of the world come to the West to escape that horror. It should make them more willing to adapt but it's hard to simply obey and shut up. It's the politically correct *****footing about that has made the whole thing with foreigners such an issue. It will be some politician, or MP, making a name for themselves, trying to get more votes from minority groups, who bring up these ridiculous laws and claims. I have to say i have never once met a islamic person that has told me that nursey rhymes are offensive, that pigs and dogs are offensive, its always in a news article you hear of these things.

Does that not tell anyone here anything?

[Undercover]

what dont you agree with in my statement.....so do you think that an individual or group of people should be able to change laws and regs because its in there beliefs or faith...

The thing is nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. That's what the BNP and shitty newspapers want you to believe. It's the politicians making those changes not the immigrants.

laws are laws.......this is a bit off topic but here it is.....in my local shoping centre young people are not allowed to wear there hoods up...and i agree with that but then muslim woman should not be allowed to wear there burkas....am i wrong in thinking that??

Well, it's a bit different. Those women in their burkas fully believe they cannot consummate their religion without wearing them. Are you seriously comparing teenagers' rights to wear their hoods up to that?

Having said that, I'm against religion, religious symbols, ideas and all that crap. But I can't run around forcing christians to take their crosses off and stripping down muslim women.

BTW, how do you like Germany, I should hopefully be there in a year.

It's been a fun ride so far. Where are you going to stay? PM me if you need any help.

I have to say i have never once met a islamic person that has told me that nursey rhymes are offensive, that pigs and dogs are offensive, its always in a news article you hear of these things.

Does that not tell anyone here anything?

That's not true! It's a documented well-known fact that all muslims hate animals and freedom!

[energizer bunny]

The thing is nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. That's what the BNP and shitty newspapers want you to believe. It's the politicians making those changes not the immigrants.

well i would never want the BNP in power and i dont read newspapers very often...(just for sport)......and your totaly wrong about people trying to force beliefs on you/me.....that is one thing done by every single religion and political party....Well, it's a bit different. Those women in their burkas fully believe they cannot consummate their religion without wearing them. Are you seriously comparing teenagers' rights to wear their hoods up to that?

Yes i am.....the reason behind the ban of hoodys is so that people can see there faces.....wey i cant see whos under that burka....a rule/law is there for everyone regardless of religious beliefs.....

Having said that, I'm against religion, religious symbols, ideas and all that crap. But I can't run around forcing christians to take their crosses off and stripping down muslim women.

Im the opposite...im not against religious symbols...im against them breaking laws/rules.... (a bit off topic again but here we go....when on holiday in Spain and Greece you are not allowed to take your T-shirt off at night...doesnt matter about anything else what you believe in etc etc....its not allowed!!) and if thats what they want then who am i to argue?




That's not true! It's a documented well-known fact that all muslims hate animals and freedom!

And all Animals deserve to be hated because they do not believe in wiping there own arses

[Undercover]

a rule/law is there for everyone regardless of religious beliefs

That's true, but it shouldn't interfere with their beliefs either. Wearing a cross around your neck isn't required of you for you to be a Christian. You can take off your cross and still be one. A bukra is a bit different. This woman feels she can't be a Muslim without her burka, it's against her religion (even though some Muslims might disagree) not to wear one. So when you tell her, take off your burka or you don't get in..it's really like saying stop being a Muslim or you can't shop here. It's the equivalent of a Christian having to sign a paper that denies Jesus Christ is his savior.

Logically speaking you're right. Everyone should fall under the same set of laws regardless of their beliefs. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. Injustice is happening everywhere because of religion. It intrigues me; however, how people only look at the Muslim side of injustice. Maybe because it's the most vocal one? I don't know. All I know is that, while a woman in burka is shopping illegally in your local mall, thousands of Africans are dying daily of HIV and AIDS because the pope keeps denying them shipments of condoms. How's that for forcing your beliefs on someone? but no, the pope is not brown and muslim...no reason to get angry.

You can't really reason with religious beliefs, because they're not really reasonable. That's why we have to make sacrifices all the time to please people who believe in fairy tales. She believes she needs to wear a burka to please Allah, he believes that a "cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree" told him that abstinence is the only way to stop the spread of HIV.

It's us atheists who should be complaining really. We live in a religious world; that's lots of BS to put up with to keep others happy.

[energizer bunny]

you see we could go on all day.....i think the law is above religious belief no matter what.....and it should most definately interfere with beliefs if that belief is not following the rules.....no one is telling anyone to stop being Muslim..we are telling them not to cover there face...they should adapt to that law simple...

If your in a Christian country you should adapt to there ways....if you are a Christian in a Muslim country you should adapt to their ways.....

maybe you could answer a question for me??
If a woman..any religion and from any country...went to a muslim country would they have to cover up?? could they ware a mini skirt or shorts?

[Undercover]

no one is telling anyone to stop being Muslim..we are telling them not to cover there face...they should adapt to that law simple...

I told you, it's against their religion. So its either pleasing God or you.

Let me remind you, the US is not a Christian nation. You don't have to adapt to Christian values if you live in the US.

maybe you could answer a question for me??
If a woman..any religion and from any country...went to a muslim country would they have to cover up?? could they ware a mini skirt or shorts?

In most Muslim countries, women aren't required to cover up. They are allowed to wear bikinis on beaches and mini skirts on the street. It's normal.

Look at this video of a Shia Muslim singer in Lebanon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGxm_xANs6M no burka there

But to answer your question, no. Women won't be able to pull that off in Iran, for example. What's your point though?

[energizer bunny]

we will get no where with this debate.....we are looking at this in different ways....i dont think that religion should be able to dictate the laws/rules of a country........you think that their relgious views should be taken into consideration regarding certain rules and laws.....??



please explain why women could not pull that off in Iran?

[Undercover]

i dont think that religion should be able to dictate the laws/rules of a country........you think that their relgious views should be taken into consideration regarding certain rules and laws.....??

Me neither.

No I don't, but the reality is that they are. We are governed by religious views and values all the time. Why else would abortion be illegal? (Women can get an abortion in Islam, by the way) The bigger your religion, the bigger your political influence, the more beliefs you're going to force on people.

Imagine a religion that forces its followers to wear alien masks at all times..if they ever want to be rescued by alien lord Xunu, that is. With enough support, they can force your local mall to allow people wearing alien masks in. That's just it, no matter how ridiculous and uncaring your beliefs are, what matters is how big and popular you are.

please explain why women could not pull that off in Iran?

Iran is an Islamic theocracy. There's no respect for anything outside of Islam there. Citizens of Iran do think differently though. I met a lot of Iranian students at my university. All their women are smoking hot, and they all can't seem to wait to take their hijab off and put on their tight jeans once they get on German soil.

[Flagg]

Me neither.

No I don't, but the reality is that they are. We are governed by religious views and values all the time. Why else would abortion be illegal? (Women can get an abortion in Islam, by the way) The bigger your religion, the bigger your political influence, the more beliefs you're going to force on people.

Imagine a religion that forces its followers to wear alien masks at all times..if they ever want to be rescued by alien lord Xunu, that is. With enough support, they can force your local mall to allow people wearing alien masks in. That's just it, no matter how ridiculous and uncaring your beliefs are, what matters is how big and popular you are.



Iran is an Islamic theocracy. There's no respect for anything outside of Islam there. Citizens of Iran do think differently though. I met a lot of Iranian students at my university. All their women are smoking hot, and they all can't seem to wait to take their hijab off and put on their tight jeans once they get on German soil.

Cant argue there mate. I know a few birds at Uni that are Iranian, Moroccan and they are ridiculously hot.