Boxing haters, hate on this.

[muffin man]

The subject wasn’t “How well would Mike Tyson have done in MMA?” and your comparing him to guys 3 weight division below where he would have been.

But to address you point, I doubt there is anyone in MMA who could have KO’d Tyson (unless you’re taking ground and pound)

Sure he could have been submitted but getting close enough to take an elite striker down without being KO’d isn’t easy.

I think an elite boxer would go far in MMA. As I said before look at Chuck Liddell or Vitor Belfort, they made their careers with their hands and neither one of them even comes close to an elite pro boxer.

of course someone COULD ko tyson. anybody COULD get ko'ed, especially with those little gloves.

taking an elite striker down that has zero mma training actually is easy. much easier than in just a wrestling match. unless he knows how to strike for mma then he's getting taken down, easily.

Liddell and Belfort are not elite boxer level but Lidell was a D1 wrestler. Belfort was a BJJ blackbelt. They have great ground games so they are not afraid to let their hands go. an elite boxer with no mma training would either be too scared of getting taken down to really let his hands go or.. he's either let his hands go leaving himself open to a take down.

[roid_rage]

2. grappling isn’t any more taxing than striking





Gotta disagree. Grappling is a little more taxing as your costantly locked in a struggle against anothers strength and body weight. Even when grapplers are stalled in guard there is still plenty of grip and hand fighting.

Ive boxed in the past with pro boxers like Frank Savannah and Sal Lopez, and i box during MMA class,so i do have insight. To Me Grappling is more taking physically and mentally. Thats why college/Olympic wrestlers are widely considered to be the most superior condiotioned athletes. Thats a fact, not something im just saying for the sake of argument

totally agree with you man... wrestlers have a sligh advantage over jitz guys when go into MMA because mainly their training... most guys, jitzers early in their MMA carrers dont take the conditioning all that serius, American wreslters wrestle through highschool and college, thats at least like 8 years of hard ass work training, jitzers most of the time only take it as a hobby, then as soon as they are getting good and see an oportunity, take things more serius, there is where they start taking conditioning rightly... American wrestlers are studs, they are cardio machines, that's one of the reasons why wrestling is the best based for MMA (aside from the grappling point)

Now grappling is so demanding, well, MMA fighters have to grapple and strike, is like doing push ups, is much more demaning than running... MMA is the one of the most demanding sport in the world, and much more than boxing.

PS: Boxing is dead.

[muffin man]

totally agree with you man... wrestlers have a sligh advantage over jitz guys when go into MMA because mainly their training... most guys, jitzers early in their MMA carrers dont take the conditioning all that serius, American wreslters wrestle through highschool and college, thats at least like 8 years of hard ass work training, jitzers most of the time only take it as a hobby, then as soon as they are getting good and see an oportunity, take things more serius, there is where they start taking conditioning rightly... American wrestlers are studs, they are cardio machines, that's one of the reasons why wrestling is the best based for MMA (aside from the grappling point)

Now grappling is so demanding, well, MMA fighters have to grapple and strike, is like doing push ups, is much more demaning than running... MMA is the one of the most demanding sport in the world, and much more than boxing.

PS: Boxing is dead.

so true. anyone who doesn't believe needs to walk into their local college wrestling practice and ask if you can wrestle one of them. freakishly strong and well conditioned athletes.

[ectomorph28]

2. grappling isn’t any more taxing than striking





Gotta disagree. Grappling is a little more taxing as your costantly locked in a struggle against anothers strength and body weight. Even when grapplers are stalled in guard there is still plenty of grip and hand fighting.

Ive boxed in the past with pro boxers like Frank Savannah and Sal Lopez, and i box during MMA class,so i do have insight. To Me Grappling is more taking physically and mentally. Thats why college/Olympic wrestlers are widely considered to be the most superior condiotioned athletes. Thats a fact, not something im just saying for the sake of argument

Well in a study conducted by exercise scientists and posted on CNNSI, Boxing was listed as the most difficult sport in the world. Wrestling was 5th.

Everybody has different experiences, but I can rest in grappling, I cant rest when boxing.

[roid_rage]

Well in a study conducted by exercise scientists and posted on CNNSI, Boxing was listed as the most difficult sport in the world. Wrestling was 5th.

Everybody has different experiences, but I can rest in grappling, I cant rest when boxing.

no you cant, you can take a few breaths, but if you relax, the guy on the botton is on top of you and you did not even realize of it. In boxing you can always hug your opponent.

[ectomorph28]

no you cant, you can take a few breaths, but if you relax, the guy on the botton is on top of you and you did not even realize of it. In boxing you can always hug your opponent.

Clinching for the most part is illegal in boxing and when they do clinch its actually quite fatiguing. Because you're still fighting for position, trying to outmuscle your opponent.

And yes you can take breaths while on the ground. You see it all the time. In MMA, you can Lay and Pray. In boxing, you cant. The most boring part of boxing for many is stick and move and even that requires alot of movement and handspeed.

The bottom line is, as much as you hate to admit it, people can rest in MMA, whereas in boxing its nearly impossible.

[roid_rage]

Clinching for the most part is illegal in boxing and when they do clinch its actually quite fatiguing. Because you're still fighting for position, trying to outmuscle your opponent.

And yes you can take breaths while on the ground. You see it all the time. In MMA, you can Lay and Pray. In boxing, you cant. The most boring part of boxing for many is stick and move and even that requires alot of movement and handspeed.

The bottom line is, as much as you hate to admit it, people can rest in MMA, whereas in boxing its nearly impossible.

and you think that when you LnP you are resting???? LOL.. have you ever in your life roll or wrestle??? I guess you havent, when you are on top position, you are most of the time fighting the KEEP the position, wheter you are on someones guard, side position etc...

Now I do agree that Boxing around the globe is more popular than MMA, MMA has less than 20 years, though Im pretty sure MMA is muuuch more popular in countries like Brazil, Japan, and other asian countries.

WWE is not a SPORT, so the comparation is stupid, its like comparing video games to sports, yeah video games are in the same demographics than MMA, are they the same????

just watch something, this is a steroid forum, most ppl in here are guys that are into bbuilding and steroids (otherways wouldnt be here) this forum is called boxing/fighting sports/wretling, how many boxing threads do you see??? how many talking about MMA?

Sorry man, but boxing and MMA is like skating and rollerskating... its called evolution.

[elpropiotorvic]

Actually I would disagree ^^^^ in boxing u know a punch is coming but how is it coming what are they working on to get that punch in... But also depends on the quality of the fighter people like fedor or Anderson u can expect them to want to hit u but they will also. Do great job at takingnit to the ground and submitting or pounding, but I dunno man Im not that great of a grappler however I have taken down heavyweights college champions of wrestling (nottalking singular) with some boxing, as long as they don't catch me I'm fine doing my thing ...but I love both they both have different crowds ... U gotta be a fan of the sport and not the accion to like both sports ... If u only like action then yes mma has more of that to offer...but a boxing match j gotta like the sport to watch it ..people I say we stop arguing about whAt is the best they both rule....
And myke Tyson is by far the most gifted fighter there has been on earth so far IMO ... When he was under d'amatto he was using his jab well and doing his thing ... As for the ali vs Tyson fight... Tyson would win the post-jail but not the pre1964 Mohammed hell no .. No way...

[TRT,MAN]

thats when teddy atlas and cus was trainning him. he was great back then but those days are long gone. and so is boxxing if its not careful.

[elpropiotorvic]

I still think... Ali 1963 wins.... Alipost 69 looses

[Biohazard74]

I dunno but i think Tyson would of been undefeated before he started going downhill. I mean undefeated as noone ever in history could of beat him. If Lenox , Buster etc etc would of met Tyson before all his troubles started i believe the outcome of those fights would of been totally different. Hollyfield is in close 2nd to me followed by Ali. Hollyfield because you have to give it to a man that fought in 3 i believe different weight classes all going bigger & bigger. Just my $.02

[icepick27]

I dunno but i think Tyson would of been undefeated before he started going downhill. I mean undefeated as noone ever in history could of beat him. If Lenox , Buster etc etc would of met Tyson before all his troubles started i believe the outcome of those fights would of been totally different. Hollyfield is in close 2nd to me followed by Ali. Hollyfield because you have to give it to a man that fought in 3 i believe different weight classes all going bigger & bigger. Just my $.02

buster beat him in his prime bro

[Biohazard74]

buster beat him in his prime bro

When Buster beat him he was on his way down already. He was going thru alot of shit. He was going through a divorce, broke his hand in a street fight, changed managers and trainers....trainers who didn't have a clue about training a club fighter, never mind a world champion.
tyson was not in great shape, even getting floored by a sparring partner, and was too sure of himself, didn't think he needed to be in tip top shape, and didn't have a corner who could motivate him when things didn't go his way.

[icepick27]

When Buster beat him he was on his way down already. He was going thru alot of shit. He was going through a divorce, broke his hand in a street fight, changed managers and trainers....trainers who didn't have a clue about training a club fighter, never mind a world champion.
tyson was not in great shape, even getting floored by a sparring partner, and was too sure of himself, didn't think he needed to be in tip top shape, and didn't have a corner who could motivate him when things didn't go his way.

i knew all that and its all true but it was still his prime bro buster was a 100 to 1 underdog how wasnt it his prime

[ACJiujitsu]

Once Rooney and the guys got thrown out and Tyson bought his "Boys" in to corner him,that marked the beginning of the end

[Biohazard74]

Once Rooney and the guys got thrown out and Tyson bought his "Boys" in to corner him,that marked the beginning of the end

They milked him physically, mentally and financially

[icepick27]

listen i just think that ali is the worst match up possible for tyson ,but anyone one else i think tyson beats hands down .. some people even have the balls to say rocky marciano could of beat tyson .. thats just down right stupid rocky wouldnt go past the second rd i think tyson is #2 in my eyes of all time and the same goes for fighters i love its #1 ali
#2 tyson 3# roy jones in his prime #4Hopkins #5 the golden boy that my top 5

[elpropiotorvic]

Agree with ur top five but true he wasn't 1989 Tyson when he fought buster u guys remember that Tyson hell he didn't even speak too much all u could see in his face was cus d'amatto and training some more ...

To the Holyfield supporter I'm not a hater of Holyfield but not a fan at all
yes I give him big props for the weight classes not too many people can say they did that
but he was one dirty@ss boxer... Pulling always something illegal in a fight And if it wasn't illegal something that would have not made him win
I guess he is not dirty but just a smart@$$

[rockinred]

Ice, I don't agree that just because a person is favored or undefeated that it would equate to someone being in their prime. I don't think everyone is in their prime till they lose either. Mike Tyson's was not anywhere near his prime when he fought Douglas... It was just a bad deal. Douglas got rolled by Evander the very next fight in a matter of seconds in a silly display of a Heavy weight champion.

I remember I was very disappointed in Tyson back then, because Evander Holyfield was up and coming and it was going to be a good fight and Lennox Lewis was just coming in aggressive back then too. It was too bad we didn't get to see those fights shake down while all were in their good years. It would have been great... similar to the Ali, Frazier, Foreman era. Oh well....life goes on and Tyson became a shame. No way could Evander and Lennox run through Tyson like they did in a different era. Needless to say they kicked his butt into tomorrow and Tyson acted a fool and I lost a lot of respect for him in the Holyfield fight. What a huge let down it was in all aspects.

Holyfield is one of the greats in my book...the dude is a warrior no doubt. He can fight dirty though.

[icepick27]

ROCINRED .. I agree with you very good points, he mighht of not of been in his best shape but it was still the ERA OF HIS PRRIME, wether he was in shape or not he was still the most feared man on the planet
"ROCKINRED"
"It was too bad we didn't get to see those fights shake down while all were in their good years. It would have been great... similar to the Ali, Frazier, Foreman era. " Very true but brings me back to my old point ,about boxing going down hill great fighters dont fight great fighters untill its too late and after boxing has 2 or 3 more big fights ,i just cant see no other big draws OR stars like floyd carrying boxing i think they are going to be in MMA

as of Holyfield iam mad because i forgot to put him in my top five he was a warrior .....toatly agrree with both of yous about him

[bigrich4]

Mike Tyson's defense is impregnable, and he is just ferocious.

[Jon the Rooster]

LOved mike back in the day, until Don got his hands on him & ruined the sport for me. As far as who is more demanding/taxing,, fighting vs. MMA. Remember the Hearns vs. Hagler bout,, that was the best 100% full speed fight, non stop for 3 rounds & some change. Classic!! Some super conditioning right there.

[ACJiujitsu]

Dont forget about Riddick Bowe too. He and Tyson would have been epic! His 3 wars with Holyfield were amazing. His nonsense with Golota tainted his career. But he was without a doubt on the the best of that time

[icepick27]

Dont forget about Riddick Bowe too. He and Tyson would have been epic! His 3 wars with Holyfield were amazing. His nonsense with Golota tainted his career. But he was without a doubt on the the best of that time

definlitly .. i think that him and tyson would have been a great fight cause he poses a lot of prolems for tyson similar to lewis . but i think mike would have pulled it out with a late round ko

[Brown Ninja]

Peter McNeely

[ectomorph28]

MMA is more popular in North America. And thats where the 18-demographic comes from. However, its not even close on an international level.

And MMA most certainly hasnt gotten that 18-35 demographic elsewhere around the world.

You know who also had the 18-35 demographic? The WWE. How'd that turn out?

The bottom line is MMA has the most fickle demographic that will most certainly jump to something new. Boxing has an established fanbase, with strong ethnic support around the world. Countries get behind its fighters in boxing. And lets be honest, Boxing is considered a legitimate sport worldwide whereas MMA puts on freakshow events in Japan, has a street fighter on a reality show in the States and the UFC HW champion was hitting people with steel chairs in the WWE 3 years ago.

Where the UFC goes, MMA goes. And with the amount of MMA orgs going under, I dont know how you can possibly say the MMA will take over boxing or it has already taken over boxing. Its simply not true. Only in North America. And even there, its pretty damn close.

Its also funny how the UFC have been fabricating their PPV totals and UFC 100 did as many buys as Mayweathers TUNEUP FIGHT last week.

[elpropiotorvic]

Roidrage... I grapple too.. And I fight mma too.... I can tell u one thing boxing is more exhausting... I don't wanna sound a jerk but u sound like u haven't been on this for long.. What he meant was stuff like the kuoshu and sands fights in china ... Vale tudo in brazil... just my .02

[roid_rage]

Roidrage... I grapple too.. And I fight mma too.... I can tell u one thing boxing is more exhausting... I don't wanna sound a jerk but u sound like u haven't been on this for long.. What he meant was stuff like the kuoshu and sands fights in china ... Vale tudo in brazil... just my .02

Ive been around MMA for like 10 years, grappling 2 years... Vale tudo in brazil is the same thing than MMA, the IVC was I belive the first known league in brazil... though the rules were different and are (I think IVC is still on), they were pretty much the same that old UFCs... wouldnt know about china, probably sands (sanda) is more popular than boxing in china, or not, I really dont know squad about china.

[elpropiotorvic]

About It being more difficult try boxing pac man or a good pro and let me know it goes being boxing so easy

[roid_rage]

About It being more difficult try boxing pac man or a good pro and let me know it goes being boxing so easy

Try to strike with fedor or try to grapple with Fedor or simply just try to fight Fedor, then let me know.

The best boxer in the world wouldnt last a round with a soso MMA fighter in a FIGHT(without ground experience, with some ground experience, good wrestling or TD defense could de pretty well)

[graeme87]

Try to strike with fedor or try to grapple with Fedor or simply just try to fight Fedor, then let me know.

The best boxer in the world wouldnt last a round with a soso MMA fighter in a FIGHT(without ground experience, with some ground experience, good wrestling or TD defense could de pretty well)

I agree a boxer going into MMA should definitely learn TD defence and the ground game but your statement is very exaggerated.

Chuck Liddell (as well as many other fighters) KO’d loads of guys before they even got close enough to attempt a take down and his standup isn't close to that of a pro boxer.

[roid_rage]

I agree a boxer going into MMA should definitely learn TD defence and the ground game but your statement is very exaggerated.

Chuck Liddell (as well as many other fighters) KO’d loads of guys before they even got close enough to attempt a take down and his standup isn't close to that of a pro boxer.

chuck was a pretty solid wrestler.

[ectomorph28]

chuck was a pretty solid wrestler.

But a very crappy striker who won a title using his very crappy striking.

[elpropiotorvic]

Try to strike with fedor or try to grapple with Fedor or simply just try to fight Fedor, then let me know.

The best boxer in the world wouldnt last a round with a soso MMA fighter in a FIGHT(without ground experience, with some ground experience, good wrestling or TD defense could de pretty well)

Man I respectfully beg to differ... Look at Royce gracie vs sakuraba I think it was 1996 ... What a humilliation ... Look at mirko ( and he is not even that good) he has beaten lots of people just kickboxing them ... Look at andreson ... Without his boxing he would be shit...

Man I love BJJ and respect it a lot and wrestling as well... But man even me I have taken HEAvY weights championS of college wrestling ... Just boxing them... In the end the best man would win but I assure u a good boxer will not let u near gettin close to even getting a hold of them.... Even gsp ( which I believe has the most effective takedown in mma) I think he would get pretty much beaten... Man I don't know if you have actually seen world class boxers and see what they can do... Believe me I'm a fan of mma I don't even watch boxing ... I'm an amateur fighter of mma I love the sport .... But boxers dance u around the ring and beat u up... About the fedor... I'm the biggest fedor fan.. He is IN my wallpaper ... But he can NOT box a world class boxer(especially him being on the sport because of money) otherwise he would be doing it .. Like I said I have the utmost respect for the sport and I enjoy mma more because of more variables, but that's also why boxing is hlvery hard aswell... Cause u can only espect somuch u have to work ir ass off trying to figure the way to get in...

As for china they don't allow coverage to the events ... I think in 1990 was the first timethey allowed coverage there but not of all the evnts...

[roid_rage]

Man I respectfully beg to differ... Look at Royce gracie vs sakuraba I think it was 1996 ... What a humilliation ... Look at mirko ( and he is not even that good) he has beaten lots of people just kickboxing them ... Look at andreson ... Without his boxing he would be shit...

Man I love BJJ and respect it a lot and wrestling as well... But man even me I have taken HEAvY weights championS of college wrestling ... Just boxing them... In the end the best man would win but I assure u a good boxer will not let u near gettin close to even getting a hold of them.... Even gsp ( which I believe has the most effective takedown in mma) I think he would get pretty much beaten... Man I don't know if you have actually seen world class boxers and see what they can do... Believe me I'm a fan of mma I don't even watch boxing ... I'm an amateur fighter of mma I love the sport .... But boxers dance u around the ring and beat u up... About the fedor... I'm the biggest fedor fan.. He is IN my wallpaper ... But he can NOT box a world class boxer(especially him being on the sport because of money) otherwise he would be doing it .. Like I said I have the utmost respect for the sport and I enjoy mma more because of more variables, but that's also why boxing is hlvery hard aswell... Cause u can only espect somuch u have to work ir ass off trying to figure the way to get in...

As for china they don't allow coverage to the events ... I think in 1990 was the first timethey allowed coverage there but not of all the evnts...

say what man? I totally respect your way to put things man, but you are sooo downplaying MMA... about your examples...

Royce vs Sakuraba... Sakuraba is a catchwretstler, when I talk about grappling, I talk about everysingle grapple form, not only bjj... and that wasnt a humillation, that was a 30 minutes fight, how can that be a humillation?

Mirko had one if not the best TD defense at that time, it was nearly impossible to take him down, though Minotauro beat subed him. And Fedor (whos not even a k-1 fighter) stood toe to toe with him, and acutally put a good beating on him too. Not to mention Mirko isnt a boxer, is a K-1 fighter and his most lethal weapon were his LHK, I dont see mayweather throwing High kicks...

Andersons is no boxer, AS was the Brazilian MT champ, and also a bjj black belt, the guy subed Dan Henderson, and Lutter (from strikes though, whos a great bjj fighter, Not very good examples. Andersons most devastating weapons are his elbows and knees, I dont see mayweather throwing elbows or knees anywhere....

Its been prove is that a good grappler will most of the times prevale against a good striker with no ground game, with no TD defense. In order to get a TD defense you MUST be a good wrestler, therefore, a good grappler, Cain Velazquez couldnt stand 1 minute in front of Kongo, he almost got KTFO 3 times, still managed to wear him out and beat the living crap of ouf him... And Im pretty sure Kongo can stand and trade with the elite of boxing (of course in a K-1 match, in a boxing match he will get kill) Boxers are great at what they do... boxing, but even in MMA technicall boxing doesnt always translate well, its a world of difference to strike with 4oz than with 14oz, you cant defend the same way, therefore lots of strikes like those that Fedor throws are very effective in MMA and wouldn't be in Boxing. Hell Freddy roach before the Fedor fight said that Fedor's boxing pretty much sucked, after the fight, he realize that MMA AINT BOXING... thus the same rules dont apply.

Like I said in other post, an elite boxer will kill any MMA fighter in a boxing match (unless this MMA fighter is already an elite boxer, and we have a couple of great boxers in MMA as well) that includes Fedor, but Fedor will totally destroy, abuse, embarras any boxer who dears to stand in front of him in a MMA match.

By the way, I did not say try to box Fedor, I said try to STRIKE with Fedor, because I was talking about MMA, making the point that while trying to box Pac will be painfull, fighting Fedor you have to STRIKE AND GRAPPLE, meaning you have to worry more than about just getting hit....

[ectomorph28]

Try to strike with fedor or try to grapple with Fedor or simply just try to fight Fedor, then let me know.

The best boxer in the world wouldnt last a round with a soso MMA fighter in a FIGHT(without ground experience, with some ground experience, good wrestling or TD defense could de pretty well)

LOL, you really dont know MMA nor do you know fighting.

See. Mercer/Sylvia for an MMA example.

[roid_rage]

LOL, you really dont know MMA nor do you know fighting.

See. Mercer/Sylvia for an MMA example.

but before I see that, why dont you see kimbo/mercer first... lol....

you may wanna see also genki sudo/butterbean LOL...

yeah boxing>MMA LMFAO....

[icepick27]

but before I see that, why dont you see kimbo/mercer first... lol....

you may wanna see also genki sudo/butterbean LOL...

yeah boxing>MMA LMFAO....

^^^^good post...both of them

[F4iGuy]

Can you imagine tyson in his prime with some ground skills fighting in MMA? That would be cool. I miss watching him back in the day.

[elpropiotorvic]

^^^ I completely agree with this post very objective