Of course you can run aas at 18... I did.

[big88sub]

Everyone that has some dumb ass response to this post that o my friend or who the **** ever used aas before 25 and they have no problems. Bullshit. Your probably using yourself and and there hasn't been enough time for any symptoms yet but you will and you will say to yourself **** I SHOULD HAVE LISTENED but your not going to and your going to do whatever the **** you want and the only person you can blame is your ****ing self. You won't get any pitty from anyone here that's for sure. So go ahead use steroids **** up your life with them. It's probably a good thing you do too because someone as retarded shouldn't be reproducing anyways. That's just nature's way of getting rid of the retards. Of your not smart enough to make good life decisions then you shouldn't be able to bring something into.the world that depends on you to make good decisions just to sustain its life bit to be a mentor and guide it through life. **** it I'm waisting my breath I'll just post this on every loss thread that won't listen. Y'all think about three pages of the original post from.the author.

[LolWuter]

LISTEN UP.

It's physically impossible to develop OCD, ADHD, and have terrible sleeping habits from steroid use. This is not from steroid use. I've had mild form of OCD for a while. TESTOSTERONE INCREASES SEROTONIN AND DOPAMINE. This will usually help OCD and just make you feel better in general. Only substances like tren will increase instead of decrease symptoms.

Most likely you developed this through out your life. You have had ADHD from a young age? OCD and other conditions usually develop later with that. I don't think even a physician who's completely against steroid use would say this.

There are countless members on this site and especially on RXMuscle who've started at young ages. The risk is stunting growth, messing with hormones, and being too young to safely use and procure substances. The risks ARE NOT mental issues. Arnold popped Dbol at 15.

That's just nature's way of getting rid of the retards. Of your not smart enough to make good life decisions then you shouldn't be able to bring something into.the world that depends on you to make good decisions just to sustain its life bit to be a mentor and guide it through life. **** it I'm waisting my breath I'll just post this on every loss thread that won't listen. Y'all think about three pages of the original post from.the author.

- You're a moron.
- You probably shouldn't reproduce. Steroids won't make you infertile. It would take tremendous doses and years of cycling with no end to get even close to sterility. FOR GOD'S SAKES YOU KNOW HOW MANY PRO'S HAVE KIDS?
- I'll show this to my fellow Pharm students who juice and a friend of mine in med school who juices so they can have a laugh.
- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

LETS BE SERIOUS. THESE AREN'T STEROID SIDE EFFECTS. THIS IS A LYLE ALZADO STORY. THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE REAL, YES, BUT NOT THESE SIDE EFFECTS. CHOLESTEROL, BLOOD PRESSURE, LIVER VALUES, HORMONE LEVELS, AND GROWTH SHOULD BE WATCHED.

[Schmidty]

my thoughts exactly

LISTEN UP.

It's physically impossible to develop OCD, ADHD, and have terrible sleeping habits from steroid use. This is not from steroid use. I've had mild form of OCD for a while. TESTOSTERONE INCREASES SEROTONIN AND DOPAMINE. This will usually help OCD and just make you feel better in general. Only substances like tren will increase instead of decrease symptoms.

Most likely you developed this through out your life. You have had ADHD from a young age? OCD and other conditions usually develop later with that. I don't think even a physician who's completely against steroid use would say this.

There are countless members on this site and especially on RXMuscle who've started at young ages. The risk is stunting growth, messing with hormones, and being too young to safely use and procure substances. The risks ARE NOT mental issues. Arnold popped Dbol at 15.



- You're a moron.
- You probably shouldn't reproduce. Steroids won't make you infertile. It would take tremendous doses and years of cycling with no end to get even close to sterility. FOR GOD'S SAKES YOU KNOW HOW MANY PRO'S HAVE KIDS?
- I'll show this to my fellow Pharm students who juice and a friend of mine in med school who juices so they can have a laugh.
- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

LETS BE SERIOUS. THESE AREN'T STEROID SIDE EFFECTS. THIS IS A LYLE ALZADO STORY. THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE REAL, YES, BUT NOT THESE SIDE EFFECTS. CHOLESTEROL, BLOOD PRESSURE, LIVER VALUES, HORMONE LEVELS, AND GROWTH SHOULD BE WATCHED.

[The Bear 79]

- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

Just because you're a pill dispensing errand boy, doesn't mean you what you're talking about, all you know is what the meds are made of, how they work & what other drugs they interact with, ANYONE can learn that sh!t through a simple Google search, get over yourself. You're constantly arguing the benefits of increased Testosterone, but for some reason you're avoiding the fact that were not warning youngsters about the benefits of increased Test., were warning them of the potentially permanent side effects associated with cycling too young & irreversibly shutting down their undeveloped HPTA, leaving them with low Test. UNDENIABLY, low Test. DOES cause physical & MENTAL issues & you know damn well you cant prove otherwise.

[swm1972]

Just because you're a pill dispensing errand boy, doesn't mean you what you're talking about, all you know is what the meds are made of, how they work & what other drugs they interact with, ANYONE can learn that sh!t through a simple Google search, get over yourself. You're constantly arguing the benefits of increased Testosterone, but for some reason you're avoiding the fact that were not warning youngsters about the benefits of increased Test., were warning them of the potentially permanent side effects associated with cycling too young & irreversibly shutting down their undeveloped HPTA, leaving them with low Test. UNDENIABLY, low Test. DOES cause physical & MENTAL issues & you know damn well you cant prove otherwise.

You obviously have no clue what his degree requires, pharmacists have a more solid knowledge of drugs and interactions then doctors do. You really are no where near as smart as you think you are.

[The Bear 79]

You obviously have no clue what his degree requires, pharmacists have a more solid knowledge of drugs and interactions then doctors do. You really are no where near as smart as you think you are.

That is literally EXACTLY what I said...............& you're questioning MY smarts..........lol.......... He thinks he's something special because he went to school to learn sh!t I can look up online, like I said, all he knows is chemical composition, proper usage & interactions, put your fvcking bi-focals on.....................you guys must be drinking from the same glass.

[nooby]

LISTEN UP.

It's physically impossible to develop OCD, ADHD, and have terrible sleeping habits from steroid use. This is not from steroid use. I've had mild form of OCD for a while. TESTOSTERONE INCREASES SEROTONIN AND DOPAMINE. This will usually help OCD and just make you feel better in general. Only substances like tren will increase instead of decrease symptoms.

Most likely you developed this through out your life. You have had ADHD from a young age? OCD and other conditions usually develop later with that. I don't think even a physician who's completely against steroid use would say this.

There are countless members on this site and especially on RXMuscle who've started at young ages. The risk is stunting growth, messing with hormones, and being too young to safely use and procure substances. The risks ARE NOT mental issues. Arnold popped Dbol at 15.



- You're a moron.
- You probably shouldn't reproduce. Steroids won't make you infertile. It would take tremendous doses and years of cycling with no end to get even close to sterility. FOR GOD'S SAKES YOU KNOW HOW MANY PRO'S HAVE KIDS?
- I'll show this to my fellow Pharm students who juice and a friend of mine in med school who juices so they can have a laugh.
- You're not a doctor. You're not a pharmacist. Don't act like it.

LETS BE SERIOUS. THESE AREN'T STEROID SIDE EFFECTS. THIS IS A LYLE ALZADO STORY. THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE REAL, YES, BUT NOT THESE SIDE EFFECTS. CHOLESTEROL, BLOOD PRESSURE, LIVER VALUES, HORMONE LEVELS, AND GROWTH SHOULD BE WATCHED.

For someone who thinks their so smart, you don't see the glaring contradiction in your post? First you say hormones would get rid of those problems, but yet getting on steroids ****s up, and lowers your hormones. Thereby lowering your dopamine and serotonin. Show that to your medical friends. LMAO

[LolWuter]

There are a few young HUGE jacked bodybuilders I know who use responsibly and are on the RXMuscle forums. I know what they take. Now, OP, I wanna know what you took. Post cycle + PCT now. Did you run a PCT? What did you take?

[Focused88]

There are a few young HUGE jacked bodybuilders I know who use responsibly and are on the RXMuscle forums. I know what they take. Now, OP, I wanna know what you took. Post cycle + PCT now. Did you run a PCT? What did you take?

I bet ur not old enough to take roids lol just sayin
I think that young, steroids and responsibly don't go well together.

[LolWuter]

Well I think knowledge is much more important than age, unless you're in high school or something, but I just don't see the science in the OP. I know morons who use no PCT and are young, and they get side effects, but nothing like this. Testosterone should increase serotonin and dopamine. Unless this guy took PHs or tren, which might have aggravated his mental issues, since they can't cause but can still aggravate issues like this.

[T400-]

FYI to all the site users with great advice.......

I wanted to do my first cycle when I was about 22 yrs. This site and prob some of you STRONGLY advised against it !!!

I took the advise and waited.... doing first cycle now at 33 yrs old with good results and no real side effects ..... so far !! 600mg Test400/wk

Your great advise was followed and I DO appreciate it !!!

Think I would have regretted a ccyle at that age !!!

[Focused88]

Do you know what HPTA is? Or your endocrine system?
Go ahead... google it.

[LolWuter]

I know the ins and outs of the endocrine system much more than most people here since I am in actual medical training and most know the ins and outs of every drug on the planet before I graduate with my Doctor of Pharmacy degree.

I said that there is a risk for the HPTA. But steroids, even tren, can't cause life long insomnia or OCD or something.

Here's a quote from another website actually to why OP should do TRT:

"I went undiagnosed with low T for twenty years and during that time I had major anxiety most of the time. It wasn’t debilitating by any means but a major part of my life. When I started TRT the anxiety pretty much went away. I still have a little now and then but nothing like I used to. I was on Luvox and then effexor for close to five years and since I got my testosterone straightened out I have taken or needed to take anything to close to three years now. In my mind I know there is a connection between testosterone and neurotransmitters."

[FONZY007]

Talk about bringing back an old thread...

Miss ya dec

[bodybycookiesandcake]

every 18 year old that clicked on this thread did exactly this, *click* "LOL WALL OF TEXT , DO NOT WANT" *back button* click new thread , TITLE : "anavar only cycle"

[big88sub]

That's perfect we got a wanna be doctor telling kids yes you can use aas. Don't listen to anybody that has issues using at a young age this is the perfect examples that I was talking aboit. Here's a guy saying I know some young bodybuilders that are on the juice and have no issues and I'm also.looking in my crystal ball and they aren't going to have any problems later in life. This guy needs to stay in school and go to a library and see if there are any real.study's on Tue effect.of sterpids. O wait there isn't. I forgot the specific people but the y will not let a doctor or whoever put people.on high doses of aas for a coarse of twenty years just to see the long term effects their especially not going to do it to minors. Use that brain that you are trying to defend the use of aas by young people. Let me say this again there are no study's on this so your hypothesis doesn't mean shit this is your own opinion and should be kept to yourself because all your goin to do is take that scare tactic that is being used on these young guys away. The point is why take the chance when your buddy is still developing. Again there are no study's to back you. There sure are a lot of people here that have used aas at a young age and need try. These guys have lived it first hand they are the ones who know where they went wrong. Maybe they didn't use a proper pct maybe they used to much aas. One thing is definitely true and said over and over again they used aas to young. Thats all the proof I need and I'm a hard evidence kinda guy so go ahead and write back how stupid you think I am or whatever makes you feel better about yourself bit your not going to discourage any of us from trying to keep youngsters of the juice. Make sure you give me your name and number so if you ever become a doctor I can come to you and get a bullshit prescription for trt because that sounds like the kind of doctor your going to be. I think I smell something burning.

[swm1972]

That's perfect we got a wanna be doctor telling kids yes you can use aas. Don't listen to anybody that has issues using at a young age this is the perfect examples that I was talking aboit. Here's a guy saying I know some young bodybuilders that are on the juice and have no issues and I'm also.looking in my crystal ball and they aren't going to have any problems later in life. This guy needs to stay in school and go to a library and see if there are any real.study's on Tue effect.of sterpids. O wait there isn't. I forgot the specific people but the y will not let a doctor or whoever put people.on high doses of aas for a coarse of twenty years just to see the long term effects their especially not going to do it to minors. Use that brain that you are trying to defend the use of aas by young people. Let me say this again there are no study's on this so your hypothesis doesn't mean shit this is your own opinion and should be kept to yourself because all your goin to do is take that scare tactic that is being used on these young guys away. The point is why take the chance when your buddy is still developing. Again there are no study's to back you. There sure are a lot of people here that have used aas at a young age and need try. These guys have lived it first hand they are the ones who know where they went wrong. Maybe they didn't use a proper pct maybe they used to much aas. One thing is definitely true and said over and over again they used aas to young. Thats all the proof I need and I'm a hard evidence kinda guy so go ahead and write back how stupid you think I am or whatever makes you feel better about yourself bit your not going to discourage any of us from trying to keep youngsters of the juice. Make sure you give me your name and number so if you ever become a doctor I can come to you and get a bullshit prescription for trt because that sounds like the kind of doctor your going to be. I think I smell something burning.

He just gave a whole list of side effects. He is just saying the OCD ADHD link is crap. I agree with that. I don't think an 18 year old should juice. But for a (likely) already ****ed up kid to make a mistake and blame every issue in his life on a compound many have used safely strikes me as nonsense. And the faith people here put into total stranger drive by never to return posters, absolutely baffles me.

I know a Nigerian princess that has $1,000,000,000 dowry and all you have to do is profess your undying love for her and send her your bank information so she can send you the cash today. You game?

[abstetic]

Wow great story juicing is tempting but once I got my diet fixed the pounds are racking up.... Thanks for the advice

[Bevsta123]

Great post OP, unlucky you had to find out the hard ways. I myself almost went down your path luckly through the knowledge of other member who helped steer me in the right n propper direction

[Thor249]

I'm gonna have to agree with wuter on this.

To many people on here think they are MDs and spew a bunch of bullshit that they hear from the so called "vets".

Not saying the young should do it. Unless you are on a dedicated bodybuilding path to the pros you might as well wait just to really be safe.

But all of these problems are not from steroids.........

[The Bear 79]

I'm gonna have to agree with wuter on this. Of coarse you agree with him, you're under 25 too (I know what your profile says, but your whiny pouty demeanor says otherwise)& are tired being told no, just like every other child here, you will desperately latch on to anyone & anything that supports your retarded idea of cycling.

To many people on here think they are MDs and spew a bunch of bullshit that they hear from the so called "vets". It's not a 'bunch of bull sh!t from vets", these are conclusions of research done by Endocrinologists (MD's)

Not saying the young should do it. Unless you are on a dedicated bodybuilding path to the pros you might as well wait just to really be safe.

But all of these problems are not from steroids.........Prove your claim........

Reds

[LolWuter]

Steroids shot mah' pa.

[LolWuter]

Show me one study that links testosterone to severe depression, hypomania, or any of these mental issues.

You know as well as I do that testosterone has a calming effect on most people.

And of course what's makes you so sure that this guy wouldn't have these problems if he cycled at age 26? This just doesn't make sense. There's no need to throw a wall of text at me. I know that juice has side effects and I'm not supporting young guys juicing at all. The side effects are clear. But developing hypomania is not a side effect.

You guys are embellishing. The side effects are cholestrol issues, blood pressure, liver values for orals, surpressed HPTA, and supressed growth if it is a kid who's taking this. You guys are hypocrites most of the time.

Whenever a 30 year old asks for advice and sounds like an idiot who hasn't done his research, you guys point him to a cycle. Same thing with girls, which is just insane in my opinion. But young guys must know the absolute truth. That these things have sides, but never embellish the sides, even if it's to make a point. You'll end up sounding like the after school special that Bigger, Stronger, Faster was supposed to counter.

Next thing you're gonna tell me that Taylor Hooton actually killed himself because of steroids.

[The Bear 79]

Show me one study that links testosterone to severe depression, hypomania, or any of these mental issues.You know as well as I do that testosterone has a calming effect on most people.

It's not the increase in Testosterone that causes the issues, it's the lack of Testosterone after you're shut down genius. If you're gonna try & debate, the least you could do is be on the same page.

[The Bear 79]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15669883 ..... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...uerySuggestion

[Far from massive]

Lolwuter,

You are overlooking the obvious, that is most of the problems from AAS usage do not occur while you are on AAS (with increased test etc) they occur after cessation of AAS (when test crashes and other hormones are out of balance) so you really need to shift your analogy to support low test, high estrogen etc as being detremental to the development of these conditions.

So unless you are suggesting that an 18 year old should just start juicing and continue for the rest of their lives then your whole theory is completely invalid.

[The Bear 79]

I've asked about these youthful HRT that only this board claim exists. He is at the too of his field and said he didn't have a singe HRT patient under 30. Odd.

OK, slow down champ, untie your tongue & try it again. Usually I can figure out what someone meant even if their post is "jumbled" but you have stumped me.

[swm1972]

OK, slow down champ, untie your tongue & try it again. Usually I can figure out what someone meant even if their post is "jumbled" but you have stumped me.

Auto correct strikes again. I've asked my doctor about young HRT patients and his youngest is in his early 30's. This doctor is the only recommended HRT specialist in my state on Dr Crisler's website. If you aren't sure who that is do a search on him. He is the leading authority in the states on this subject.

If this was such a widespread problem why does he not have any youthful patients? Of this were so widespread why is this the only board where we see these claims?

The thing is I don't even support young steroid use. For god sake I am a father of three boys and I'd hate for them to **** themselves up. But half truths, scare tactics, and flat out lies draw people to abuse of substances like this, it doesn't keep them away.

Or do you think the 'this is your brain on drugs' in the frying pan commercials were an effective deterrent to drug abuse. That's how I view the claims I see here. Unsupported nonsense that once people discover the smallest crack in the truth of the dangers they will disregard everything that has been said. And the truth will be the casualty.

[JonnyConcrete]

I'm very skeptical on stories from both sides of the spectrum. Maybe you could give us more of an idea of what you were running if you were doing it right.

it's hard to believe you did one perfect cycle at 19 and it ruined your life.

[Thor249]

Hey bear where did you go to school? Where Is your degree?

Oh all your knowledge is from reading online?
Yeah that's what I thought.

But it's ok because everything I read online must be true.

An actual student studying in the medical field like Wuter doesn't know anything according to you.

Even though none of us specifically said its ok to cycle young. We simply said that this post has false claims about steroids.

Just sounds like you're mad about something
Is that it?
Umadbro?

[The Bear 79]

Hey bear where did you go to school? Where Is your degree?

Oh all your knowledge is from reading online?
Yeah that's what I thought.

But it's ok because everything I read online must be true.

An actual student studying in the medical field like Wuter doesn't know anything according to you.

Even though none of us specifically said its ok to cycle young. We simply said that this post has false claims about steroids.

Just sounds like you're mad about something
Is that it?
Umadbro?

You ask me where I went to school & what degrees I hold, but then you don't give me a chance to answer, you just assume I'm as stupid as you. Truth is, I hold more than one degree from a very prominent, highly accredited school. And far as "Wuter" go's, I would have congratulated him & gave him a pat on the back for getting a degree in Pharmacology if he hadn't implied that degree means he knows more about steroids & the effects they have on the undeveloped Endocrine & HPTA, I'll say it again, the plain & simple truth is, all he knows is what medications do what, proper dosage & what drugs interact with each other...............that's it............nothing more, you can argue it until you're blue in the face, but I can take what he knows about the damaging effects of steroids on the undeveloped Endo. / HPTA & write it in great detail on the head of a sewing needle with a wide tip marker. The only reason he fights this so adamantly, is because it suits his cause, he is too young to cycle, just like you I assume, that's why you came galloping in on your white horse & shining armor to save your girl friend, because the both of you are tired of hearing "you're too young".

[Thor249]

You ask me where I went to school & what degrees I hold, but then you don't give me a chance to answer, you just assume I'm as stupid as you. Truth is, I hold more than one degree from a very prominent, highly accredited school. And far as "Wuter" go's, I would have congratulated him & gave him a pat on the back for getting a degree in Pharmacology if he hadn't implied that degree means he knows more about steroids & the effects they have on the undeveloped Endocrine & HPTA, I'll say it again, the plain & simple truth is, all he knows is what medications do what, proper dosage & what drugs interact with each other...............that's it............nothing more, you can argue it until you're blue in the face, but I can take what he knows about the damaging effects of steroids on the undeveloped Endo. / HPTA & write it in great detail on the head of a sewing needle with a wide tip marker. The only reason he fights this so adamantly, is because it suits his cause, he is too young to cycle, just like you I assume, that's why you came galloping in on your white horse & shining armor to save your girl friend, because the both of you are tired of hearing "you're too young".

Apparently he's your girlfriend because you know so much about him. How can you claim "that's all he knows". Who are you to say these things?

I'm actually 26 but thanks and the only reason I feel strongly about this is because these are all false claims..... Just a bunch of scare tactics.

By the looks of it you must hold a degree in Internet shit talking because you seem to be so good at it.

So far all of your arguments have been what I can read on the info threads......

Sorry to break it to you but Internet degrees aren't highly accredited.

[The Bear 79]

I'm actually 26 but thanks and the only reason I feel strongly about this is because these are all false claims..... Just a bunch of scare tactics. Prove the claims false.............

Sorry to break it to you but Internet degrees aren't highly accredited. Like I said, my degrees came from a school, a school you couldn't afford even after a FULL lifetime of savings. And even if you could afford it, I guarantee you wouldn't meet the criteria to be accepted.

....

[swm1972]

....

Bear

Are you shitting me? The scientific level of acceptance would require the supporters of a theory to validate it. Not the other way around. Educated my ass. My 5th grader would know better then to make a statement like that.

[Thor249]

....

Ohhhh ok badass why don't you let us all know what school this is?

All the shit you're talking really shows how educated you are.... Your school must be so proud.

But really what school is this? Sounds almost like Ivy league. Is that it?

[The Bear 79]

How can you claim "that's all he knows". Who are you to say these things?

OK, tell me exactly what else the job entails, what else does a Pharmacist do besides advise people how to properly use the drug a real doctor prescribed, & warn them of interactions with other drugs.................PLEASE break it down it detail, show me how being a Pharmacist makes you more knowledgeable in ANYTHING other than the ingredients of medications, intended use, proper doses & interactions.............

[bigswoll]

I love this shit.

[AD]

it has been said multiple times in this forum that doctors don't know much about roids usage and related complications, not just GPs, but also endocrinologists. it is true, cos AAS is not something you see regularly in the practice of mainstream medicine. and obviously, being illegal, it is impossible to do legitimate research on it since nothing will pass thru the ethics committee. to do research on complications of roid usage in the young adult is even less likely.

so... if real doctors don't know much about this, i wonder how much more, or less, pharmacists know....

which is why online forum like this is so popular among users. people share their personal experiences and knowledge. if more than a few vets agree on the same point, i'll definitely pay more attention to their opinions, till proper scientific research can be done. which is probably never, given the ethical constraints.

[big88sub]

it has been said multiple times in this forum that doctors don't know much about roids usage and related complications, not just GPs, but also endocrinologists. it is true, cos AAS is not something you see regularly in the practice of mainstream medicine. and obviously, being illegal, it is impossible to do legitimate research on it since nothing will pass thru the ethics committee. to do research on complications of roid usage in the young adult is even less likely.

so... if real doctors don't know much about this, i wonder how much more, or less, pharmacists know....

which is why online forum like this is so popular among users. people share their personal experiences and knowledge. if more than a few vets agree on the same point, i'll definitely pay more attention to their opinions, till proper scientific research can be done. which is probably never, given the ethical constraints.

Ethics committee thank you. The personal experience of these guys is the only real research that has ever been done on humans and a pharmacist is probably the last person I'd turn to because they are in the least respectable position here. Any place where you can talk to a person at a drive through relay knows there shit rite. Just like all those people at bk can relay **** up everything about someone's oder and I've seen done on numerous occasions by pharmacists. I barely trust doctors because they've almost killed several people in my family with what they considered as low risk procedures. Point being ****ing I forgot the point of this thread o. Aas can have serious and long term effects if not cycles properly and in manageable levels at a point when your body is fully developed period........

[LolWuter]

^ Dude you're making yourself sound like an idiot. Whenever you go to a Pharmacy, most likely you're talking to a tech or an intern. You can hold your own opinions on juice, but don't sound like an idiot about other things.