405, was just mentioning how he is working out an hour in the morning fasted, then 30mins later on still fasted. So do you think he's likely burning muscle after a few months of this routine?Originally Posted by Lunk1
Junior Member
405, was just mentioning how he is working out an hour in the morning fasted, then 30mins later on still fasted. So do you think he's likely burning muscle after a few months of this routine?
Junior Member
For every successful body builder, trainer, and nutritionist out there that says cardio on an empty stomach there's one that says no that's wrong. It's just like what I do in the gym may not work for u. The saying goes opinions r like assholes everyone has one. A lot of ibbf pros say cardio on an empty Stomach who can argue with them.
Junior Member
So the thing is that Brainum was a successful bodybuilder and has been a successful nutritionist since the 70's. A lot of IBBF bodybuilders also drink and smoke on the weekends and have strange and unproven methods. Just because they're 'pro's doesn't mean their logic holds water. You know how many guys are naturally blessed with genetics for packing on muscle? They defy all kinds of common logic.
AR's Scrapple Lover
:I couldn't care less:.... ; )
opened up a can of worms....because I short-hand like a mofo lol
-Beast Mode-
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
well maybe im an idiot but where is the video??
id also like to note here ive done fasted cardio down to 9%bf in the am and afternoon.. i have done 2 fasted cardio sessions per day for 4 months and cut from 13% bf to 9%bf losing very little LBM and maintaining strength..
wake up: 60 mins cardio
fast all day
6pm: 2nd 30minute fasted cardio session
end result: 9%bf very little LBM loss..
im doing it right now..
id also like to note here some people (myself included) intentionally deplete muscle glycogen and do cardio during this depleted state. its called CKD.. Lyle MacDonald (among others) recommends it and i have gotten (as said above) to single digit body fat utilizing this method.. high carb refeed days off sets any catabolism from my experience.. back when i did cardio in a carb loaded/fed state i was fat!
Junior Member
so if a 'calorie burned is a calorie burned' (which doesn't necessarily mean you're burning fat), then why put yourself through the discomfort of a fasted state? Why risk burning muscle?
405: just paste the video link after youtube dot com, I'm unable to post links yet.
VET
I'm not advocating fasted cardio or saying it would improve body composition more so than cardio done at other times of the day. Ultimately your bf and LBM like I already said will be determined by your overall nutrition and training program not something as insignificant as what your body uses for a fuel source for less than an hour of the 24.
Do some reading on glycogen stores in muscle and liver and ckd type diets. It takes days of nearly no carb consumption paired with wo's intended to deplete carbs in order to dip into glycogen stores. 8 hrs of nearly no metabolic activity (sleep) is nearly irrelevant.
Junior Member
cool, I see the logic in what you're saying. I don't see any advantage to cardio in a fasted state really. I don't find that my metabolism is any faster in the morning, if anything it feels slower because I haven't warmed up my body or consumed anything. Plus who wants to do cardio first thing in the morning when your body isn't warmed up and joints all stiff. Seems pretty hard on the body to get up and go.
Neurologically Intact
BS - you do not have muscle loss from doing fasted cardio. WTF
Muscle loss would come from too much cardio and not enough food.
If that's what happens, how did I drop 50 pounds in 2 and a half month, yet maintained all of my strength and Lbm?
Total BS from some fossil
Junior Member
well if you're sleeping for 7-8 without food, then cardio for another hour. That's roughly 9-10 hours without anything from preventing your body from switching over to muscle burning mode. It's not an exact science but wouldn't it be wiser to play it safe and just consume a bit of protein before a cardio session?
man you're not supposed to drop any more than 4lbs a month. Anything over that is considered muscle loss. 50lbs in 2 and half months! that's hardcore
do you have any before and afters?
Neurologically Intact
Yes, look at my threads.
Stop with the BS nonsense, bro-science BS is just getting annoying.
Junior Member
it's not broscience, I've read it many times over from various credible sources. it's like keto, sure it may work but you'll feel like crap during the process and kill motivation. I think the term broscience gets thrown around too frequently, same with troll actually. People love to label.
It's pretty obvious to me, if you cut too fast you lose strength.
~VET~ Extraordinaire~
4lbs in a month, where did you hear that bs
If people can't tell your on steroids then your doing them wrong
Junior Member
I've read it many times from various sources. Most guru's will advise you to take it off slowly, about 1-2lbs a week. That way you allow your body to adjust and you don't risk burning hard earned muscle. Sure you can lose all kinds of weight in a week if you want but you'll feel like shit and probably be doing more harm than good.
It's like how boxers cut weight to make a fight, I never agreed with that. The boxer that cuts is going to be weaker from the cut so you're seeing them fight at a lesser potential.
~VET~ Extraordinaire~
I love how your looking for answers but stating things as facts.
I wrestled from kindergarten through college, and fought mma after. Don't try and explain your opinion about fighters cutting weight
If people can't tell your on steroids then your doing them wrong
Senior Member
JFC you post one video against fasted cardio and the fans of fasted cardio will post 10 studies saying it works. Then go ahead and post 20 studies saying it's bullshit.
The KEY to fitness is finding what works for you to get to your goals and sticking with it!
Junior Member
well doesn't it make sense that you would burn out your energy supplies for your weight training session if you're doing cardio before hand?
Senior Member
Lets see back when I was playing football, collegiate level, we would practice for three hours in the afternoon. Running around, sprinting, all sorts of cardio. Then after practice we'd hit the weight room and lift for an hour or so. My energy supplies weren't gone. Maybe theres something about a guy wanting your starting position that gives you that little extra umph to lift a heavy fvcking weight.
Junior Member
not trying be a knob, but I don't see any point to your post, how is this relevant to the discussion? And when you're younger you can eat all kinds of crap and work out all day, everyday and still make awesome gains.
Senior Member
You asked about depleting energy by doing cardio before lifting. Read about about how I would perform three hours of cardio before lifting. If you're not trying to be a knob you really need to try harder.
Junior Member
It all depends on your goals and your diet. I currently burn about 2500-3000 Ccal/day but consume 4500-5000 so my 1500 Ccal meal at 10pm with 100 carbs would probably give me plenty of juice in the morning. IMO
Elite-AR-Hall of Famer
i watched the video.. this^^^^^^^^ is whats important in this thread IMO. ive seen guys who eat mac donalds and go to the gym and half ass their workouts and look as good or better naturally than i can on steroids.. i think we are so different as people there really is no rule with dieting aside from cals in > cals out = gain of some sort and cals in < cals out = loss of some sort..
the rest is up to diet, training, genetics, etc.. figure out what works for u and do it! period..
Junior Member
Finding out what works for me is exactly what I'm doing on these message boards. I'm asking questions, probing around and pulling out the most logical answers. I've been testing out various foods and diets for years now and I've narrowed it down quite a lot. I've tried all extremes, from low fat, to low carb to fasting, to vegan. For me what works best is high protein, medium fat, medium carb. Carbs do almost nothing for my body, the only reason I eat oats and carbs is for the fiber content. High carb for me definitely doesn't work, I'll put on fat super fast and insulin spikes are no good. I pretty much live off of eggs for the most part.i watched the video.. ] is whats important in this thread IMO. ive seen guys who eat mac donalds and go to the gym and half ass their workouts and look as good or better naturally than i can on steroids.. i think we are so different as people there really is no rule with dieting aside from cals in > cals out = gain of some sort and cals in < cals out = loss of some sort..
the rest is up to diet, training, genetics, etc.. figure out what works for u and do it! period..
And just because you see those lucky ones eating mcdicks and training like wimps doesn't mean it's correct for the general masses. Like Brainum said in another video, 'some guy once said well my grandfather drank and smoked until he was 98 years old and he was just fine--well there's always exceptions but this doesn't apply to everyone.' And obviously if those guys were to eat properly and trained hard they would have much greater results. I don't listen to those genetic lottery winners, or use them as an example--they have it easier than most of us and there's nothing I can do about it. It's really annoying when you see people eating crap and not training hard and yet make greater gains than your strict diet and ass-busting programs. But c'est la vie. Some of us were blessed with high test and can pack on the muscle no matter what they eat, luckily there's test and roids these days to help those who lack it. It's too bad that test/roids are illegal and so hard to acquire, it would be a real benefit to a lot of people's lives in proper doses.
Some people are blessed with strong intelligence, some with strong bodies--you've got to just work with what you've got and go to work on your weaknesses.
Last edited by mattvdh; 07-10-2013 at 03:37 PM.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
No you're not. Your title is "Avoid cardio first thing in the morning and before a workout". And you jumped in defending the stupid video. You have no intention of finding anything out. You came to deliver a message, that unfortunately for you was packed with non sense and over thinking coupled with your shitty attitude.
ps. Someone really needs to help you with your grammar since you were quick to point out someone elses. Not to mention you're too dense to know the difference between grammar and spelling.
Does it take you 2 hours to decide what route to take when going on a short trip? Stop over thinking. Your intake and expenditure are the only things that matter. Get it through your skull, kid.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Junior Member
haha... so you think 'txt-spk' i.e. 'u2 r of topic, quit ur brocience' is perfectly fine, do you. My grammar is perfectly clear and understandable. I'm not trying to get published in a medical journal, or advocating that you all use perfect English. I'm just saying avoid that txt spk crap, it's lazy, unclear and forces people to re-read things. Man, I don't even know what you're talking about anymore, if you don't like this thread then stop contributing to it. It's really that simple.
aka "JOB"
The effects of cardio, diet (food calories consumed) and rest are cumulative! IF you reached a TRUE catabolic state the body will not simply choose to go after muscle as it's first source of energy!
You have bought into so much bro science that you should ask for a refund
Pissing Excellence!
I smell the smell of this
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Ya see, this thread is exactly why you will never catch me in the vicinity of a treadmill!
-*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-
Pissing Excellence!
just wait until austinite and I install that one in your basement!
muuuhahahahahahahahaha
Knowledgeable Member
If aust bails cause he has a new stripper gf I am in....
Neurologically Intact
Man, the posts on here are as useless as ever.
Productive Member
This post is dripping with bro science
Junior Member
that's an opinion, not an argument.
Member
Cardio sucks at any time if you ask me! Sprinting is where the best strides are made. Less time exercising, more fat burned and quicker recovery. For a fruitcake like me anyway...
Junior Member
Yeah I've noticed that I get a much better sweat with HIIT vs walking or jogging. Jogging is the worst I find, it's so boring bouncing around for long periods of time. At least when you're walking you can enjoy nature, an audiobook, or have a conversation. But yeah, I prefer HIIT because it's pretty challenging and more efficient. You're done in like 20-30 minutes. The best cardio really is like a sport or a game, then you're not counting down the minutes or calories. It should be fun to exercise, not a discipline. Then willpower isn't even an issue. It's like I love swimming, I don't even think twice about it being a great cardio session, it just is. The treadmill on the other hand is like torture.
VET
"Arnold sucks" cracked me up.
Neurologically Intact
The factual info is just rolling in
This is not a fact, this a hypothesis by a old dude who was swoled once upon a time. Okay, when I get that old after being juiced up, can I just come up with shit & people will believe me? < I sure do hope so
Junior Member
It's not hypothesis he's using good logic and he does a lot of research if you watch his channel. When you wake up in the morning your glycogen stores are depleted and you have no defences against catabolic effects. You've gone 7-8 hours without food and now you're going to go burn some more calories. And many people trying to cut are in a deficit already so that means they are much more likely to roll over into muscle catabolism.
I find it just brutal how little respect people have for old-timers in general in these modern times. It's one thing to say he's incorrect, it's another to call him a fat fossil. You guys need to respect these guys for the path they paved for us. Without these guys building up the sport and providing millions of people with inspiration, we wouldn't have nearly as much information on building muscle and manipulation of the body. Your grandparents fought or aided in the wars for our freedoms to enjoy this luxury recreational sport. People in many other countries aren't jogging on treadmills, they're jogging to find food.
respect in gyms and locker rooms - YouTube
There's such a little amount of respect for people in general these days, there's no comradery in the gym anymore. The guys in the golden age were all buddies and helped each other out. We ought to learn from their leadership. Enough with the win at all costs attitudes. Are we brothers in iron or out to destroy each other out and be enemies? We have this idea of being 'alpha' these days like this dick head guy that only considers himself and crushes everyone in his path, that's not what being a leader is all about. It's about helping out others and looking for reasons to complement and build up. The biggest form of 'beta' or weakness to me are people who destructively criticize and think of reasons to belittle others.
Last edited by mattvdh; 07-10-2013 at 09:21 PM.
aka "JOB"
Now you are just finding reason to argue. not even relevant to your OP. As base mentioned..do some homework and read about glycogen stores. You have plenty after a night of sleep. Just because this guy has been around forever does NOT mean he is right. Science has advanced in the sport of BB since this guy was in his prime. Your argument is that he is old and been there done it, therefore he HAS to be right. That's like saying the old guys who used to cycle without use of an AI or a PCT MUST be right because they got big and are not dead.
You obviously are moderately intelligent based on your posts but I say moderate because you are believing someone in a youtube video vs doing real research and checking the claims against medical research.
Junior Member
No, I'm saying the guy has been studying the subject for over 40 years and he knows his shit. Scientific studies change from day to day, but these guys have proven themselves long before scientist started noodling around and labeling everything and taking credit for it. Not to mention trying to spread certain ideas so certain companies could make a buck. These golden agers knew about things instinctively that scientists are still trying to prove/disprove to this day. Remember in the 80's and 90's when everything was low fat and scientists were certain that cholesterol and fats were the causes of all kinds of problems, well they were wrong, and Arnold said in an interview that 'they can say what they want and study or disprove our methods, but we were doing it, and we were living proof that it worked'. Everyone is so easily convinced of science and medicine these days...you know they used science to keep cigarette smoking legal in public places and disproved that it caused 2nd hand smoke for many years longer than necessary. Nazi's used science to prove that Aryan race was superior.
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