Bulking Cycle Gains Stopped

[largerthannormal]

Thanks for the link. Not sure how my diet sucks when I'm eating more than 1000 calories more than your posted diet.... (I'm assuming your kids eat the diet you posted).

My meals look almost identical to your meal plan except I replace the meat (because I'm vegetarian) with a supplement. I don't seem to have an alternative as if I replace it with more veg food my carbs just go up too much (yes I tried it).
I don't have cassein though - I could try that if you recommend it.

Again, I dont think its a diet issue as I was able to bulk for the first 5-6 weeks pretty well (82kg to 90kg). However, in the past 4 weeks I have not gained any additional weight or changes on my body so obviously something isn't working anymore. If you still think its a diet issue please can you tell me what I can change? (without increasing the carb intake by much)

I sleep a good 8-9 hours a day so I do not think thats an issue.

You are not anywhere near my diet,

Add up your macros and watch.

Keep in mind as your lbm changes so must your cals. (Possibly a good part in why you stopped progessing)Say you are eating 1000 more cals than me(your not) but if you were gains come from food..eat more, problem solved..

Also " a good plate full" means nothing and listing the protein intake, what is your carb Intake(this is just as important) what is your fat intake?

Mass shakes/milk and all these other forms of supplementing lean meat cuts are packed full of sugars.

I will finish here and ask you to list your meals(as I did in my link) so we can see what is coming from where..qty as well not just the food, I see all your proteins are nicely rounded to a number which I'd assume is an estimate?

Them show me your 1000 calories more than me(in a good macro)

I am not trying to be mean I only ask you do what I request so I can give you the help you seek/request.

If you do not want my help please send me a simple request to not help and you can continue on your way.

No hard feelings either way.

[dinogoesrawr]

If I look like that after my first cycle I will be highly disappointed.

~T

Hence my post....

[dinogoesrawr]

I'm not trying to be patronising, but from your picture it doesn't look as if you've ever done a cycle before - you must be doing something wrong. I know I'm reiterating what has already been said before, but you don't need to take gear to look like that. Maybe look at your training technique or diet? Are you overtraining? Not enough rest etc.?

Diet - see above.
Training - Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Tuesday + Friday with trainer. Good sleep daily.
The pic is me, not my goal.

[bigpen]

Diet - see above.
Training - Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Tuesday + Friday with trainer. Good sleep daily.
The pic is me not my goal.

Apologies if you have ready covered this, but I think I entered the conversation mid-way.

How long have trained for and what is your cycle history?

[dinogoesrawr]

You are not anywhere near my diet,

Add up your macros and watch.

Keep in mind as your lbm changes so must your cals. (Possibly a good part in why you stopped progessing)Say you are eating 1000 more cals than me(your not) but if you were gains come from food..eat more, problem solved..

Also " a good plate full" means nothing and listing the protein intake, what is your carb Intake(this is just as important) what is your fat intake?

Mass shakes/milk and all these other forms of supplementing lean meat cuts are packed full of sugars.

I will finish here and ask you to list your meals(as I did in my link) so we can see what is coming from where..qty as well not just the food, I see all your proteins are nicely rounded to a number which I'd assume is an estimate?

Them show me your 1000 calories more than me(in a good macro)

I am not trying to be mean I only ask you do what I request so I can give you the help you seek/request.

If you do not want my help please send me a simple request to not help and you can continue on your way.

No hard feelings either way.

I've attached a screenshot of the diet. I have skipped lunch as it depends whats in my canteen but I stick to the green veges and healthy foods at lunch. The other foods I eat daily without fail.

[dinogoesrawr]

Apologies if you have ready covered this, but I think I entered the conversation mid-way.

How long have trained for and what is your cycle history?

I trained myself for several months, then with a trainer for 4 months with gear (which was apparently fake) and now with this new trainer for 8 weeks. I have used 'proper' gear for 8 weeks. I can't remember if I posted what I have been using but its this:

Testex
Composition : 300mg/ml
Testosterone Cypionate 300mg
10ml Glass vial

Parabolan 3
Composition : 150mg/ml
Trenbolone Acetate 60mg
Trenbolone Enanthate 60mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate 30mg
10ml Glass vial

1 ml of each mixed together. Taken Wednesday and Saturday every week. Injected into alternative quads.

[tarmyg]

I've attached a screenshot of the diet. I have skipped lunch as it depends whats in my canteen but I stick to the green veges and healthy foods at lunch. The other foods I eat daily without fail.

Looking at this you are eating

Carbohydrates - 48%
Fat - 10%
Protein 42%

You are at 3295 kcal without adding in Lunch so let's say conservatively that is 500kcal and your now around 3795kcal/day. I did not see your stats anywhere but do you really need THAT amount of kcal? Why is Fat only 10% of your diet? Why are carbs that high?

Just looking at that PWS why do you need all that sugar? There so many hidden sugars in all that food I do not even know where to begin!

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[marcus300]

You shouldn't even be taking any gear with only 12 months worth of training under your belt. You need to build a solid foundation and base to work from and this is your problem. You started gear to early without build the foundation of a solid body. You wont even know how to train correctly with such a short time in the gym and also how your body responds and grows. Don't just disregard this advice because it not what you want to hear, come off gear and build a base from hard intense training and learn how your body grows. I would also redesign your diet and try many different approaches until and watch your body how is responds naturally. You don't need gear you need time in the gym learning and building base because from the sounds of it and looking at your photo your a long way off taking gear.

[dinogoesrawr]

Looking at this you are eating

Carbohydrates - 48%
Fat - 10%
Protein 42%

You are at 3295 kcal without adding in Lunch so let's say conservatively that is 500kcal and your now around 3795kcal/day. I did not see your stats anywhere but do you really need THAT amount of kcal? Why is Fat only 10% of your diet? Why are carbs that high?

Just looking at that PWS why do you need all that sugar? There so many hidden sugars in all that food I do not even know where to begin!

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

184cm/nearly 6'1 in height. 23 yo. I'm a steady 90kg.
I am following the diet my PT gave so I cannot answer questions about why the macros are the way they are as I am just following the advice given.
Anyway - what do I change?

[dinogoesrawr]

You shouldn't even be taking any gear with only 12 months worth of training under your belt. You need to build a solid foundation and base to work from and this is your problem. You started gear to early without build the foundation of a solid body. You wont even know how to train correctly with such a short time in the gym and also how your body responds and grows. Don't just disregard this advice because it not what you want to hear, come off gear and build a base from hard intense training and learn how your body grows. I would also redesign your diet and try many different approaches until and watch your body how is responds naturally. You don't need gear you need time in the gym learning and building base because from the sounds of it and looking at your photo your a long way off taking gear.

I already trained naturally for many months (8 months properly with a good diet, about 2 months before that as a 'beginner') even before considering any trainers or gear - I saw literally no changes (infact I just looked much thinner and worse) which is why I got a trainer who then suggested gear. When I trained myself I did squat/deadlift/etc and even struggled with an empty bar and just wasn't progressing regardless of how much I tried. I'm now thinking perhaps there is something wrong with me because with all these supps and gear if I'm still looking like an oxfam advert this is not good

[tarmyg]

184cm/nearly 6'1 in height. 23 yo. I'm a steady 90kg.
I am following the diet my PT gave so I cannot answer questions about why the macros are the way they are as I am just following the advice given.
Anyway - what do I change?

For one you need to know EXACTLY WTF you are putting into your body. Clearly this trainer is not qualified to help you or you would see results. Do NOT take any gear until you see actual results with diet alone because otherwise gear is a huge waste of money.

1. Redo your diet. Put it all in a spreadsheet. Spend some time in a grocery store and figure out how to do a 40/40/20 or CKD diet using only raw food that you put together yourself. Cook in advance so you can skip this canteen.

2. Stop using that trainer. Clearly not working!!!

3. Re-focus mentally and realize that success takes time, serious time and if you feel you can not wait, this is not for you.

4. Set very small and incremental goals. Do not think about what you will look like in a year, take one day at a time.

5. Post your new diet here, follow it for a few weeks and post your results. The guys, I am sure, will be happy to help you modify it once they see your commitment.

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[dinogoesrawr]

For one you need to know EXACTLY WTF you are putting into your body. Clearly this trainer is not qualified to help you or you would see results. Do NOT take any gear until you see actual results with diet alone because otherwise gear is a huge waste of money.

1. Redo your diet. Put it all in a spreadsheet. Spend some time in a grocery store and figure out how to do a 40/40/20 or CKD diet using only raw food that you put together yourself. Cook in advance so you can skip this canteen.

2. Stop using that trainer. Clearly not working!!!

3. Re-focus mentally and realize that success takes time, serious time and if you feel you can not wait, this is not for you.

4. Set very small and incremental goals. Do not think about what you will look like in a year, take one day at a time.

5. Post your new diet here, follow it for a few weeks and post your results. The guys, I am sure, will be happy to help you modify it once they see your commitment.

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

I'm not sure if you read my other posts (or my first one) but I did see results in the first 5 weeks - its gone downhill since then.

There is NO WAY I can get 40/40/20 naturally on a vegetarian diet. I have tried this already.

I know it will take time. I never expected to be huge overnight. But the fact that I'm not changing at all and regardless of the gear or supps I take I'm not seeing any size gains worries me more.

[tarmyg]

I'm not sure if you read my other posts (or my first one) but I did see results in the first 5 weeks - its gone downhill since then.

There is NO WAY I can get 40/40/20 naturally on a vegetarian diet. I have tried this already.

I know it will take time. I never expected to be huge overnight. But the fact that I'm not changing at all and regardless of the gear or supps I take I'm not seeing any size gains worries me more.

Look, being a vegetarian changes nothing. What kind of vegetarian are you?

Lacto-vegetarians (dairy is allowed)
Pescatarians (fish is allowed)
Lacto-ovo vegetarians (dairy and eggs are allowed)
Vegans (No animal products of any kind are allowed)

If you are really nervous about some problem you should really talk to a doctor. Of course, at this point all your values would be completely misleading!

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[marcus300]

I already trained naturally for many months (8 months properly with a good diet, about 2 months before that as a 'beginner') even before considering any trainers or gear - I saw literally no changes (infact I just looked much thinner and worse) which is why I got a trainer who then suggested gear. When I trained myself I did squat/deadlift/etc and even struggled with an empty bar and just wasn't progressing regardless of how much I tried. I'm now thinking perhaps there is something wrong with me because with all these supps and gear if I'm still looking like an oxfam advert this is not good

That's because your inexperienced and you need time to learn how to train and eat correctly and build a foundation. You need to be natural for at least 2 years and build a base and LEARN how your body grows and reacts to different training styles and diets.

Your trainer doesn't know what he is talking about if he put you on gear after 8 months worth of natural training under your belt, but we can go around and around in circles and you keep defending what you done but you need to stop taking gear and build a base natural and learn how to train correctly and eat right to build muscle.

[austinite]

That's because your inexperienced and you need time to learn how to train and eat correctly and build a foundation. You need to be natural for at least 2 years and build a base and LEARN how your body grows and reacts to different training styles and diets.

Your trainer doesn't know what he is talking about if he put you on gear after 8 months worth of natural training under your belt, but we can go around and around in circles and you keep defending what you done but you need to stop taking gear and build a base natural and learn how to train correctly and eat right to build muscle.

Sucks to hear this, I'm sure. But honestly, I wish I heard this when I started. I wasted time and money for almost 3 years until I realized that I didn't know how to eat. Then another 2 years just to find out everything I was doing wrong. Good advice above. Very good.

[dinogoesrawr]

That's because your inexperienced and you need time to learn how to train and eat correctly and build a foundation. You need to be natural for at least 2 years and build a base and LEARN how your body grows and reacts to different training styles and diets.

Your trainer doesn't know what he is talking about if he put you on gear after 8 months worth of natural training under your belt, but we can go around and around in circles and you keep defending what you done but you need to stop taking gear and build a base natural and learn how to train correctly and eat right to build muscle.

It just doesn't 'grow' with different diets etc/ I tried all of this before trainers + roids. I think I have said this a few times now.
8 months was me alone. Then 4 months with another trainer and roids (which were fake) and I made no size gains. Now I'm with a new trainer and am seeing strength gains but no size changes.
I'm not defending what I'e done - I'm answering your questions - there is a difference.

[RipOwens]

Sucks to hear this, I'm sure. But honestly, I wish I heard this when I started. I wasted time and money for almost 3 years until I realized that I didn't know how to eat. Then another 2 years just to find out everything I was doing wrong. Good advice above. Very good.

^^ Man I'm learning this is sooo true.

[tarmyg]

It just doesn't 'grow' with different diets etc/ I tried all of this before trainers + roids. I think I have said this a few times now.
8 months was me alone. Then 4 months with another trainer and roids (which were fake) and I made no size gains. Now I'm with a new trainer and am seeing strength gains but no size changes.
I'm not defending what I'e done - I'm answering your questions - there is a difference.

I am not sure how to make you re-think time. 8 Months + 4 Months is 12 Months so one year. This is literally NOTHING in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Stop think about this time as something significant and realize this is NOT A VERY LONG TIME. Let's say that you lived under 100% optimal conditions with everything being perfect, you could potentially gain 6lbs in one year of lean mass without AAS. Now, we have established you did not do this and I think it is fair to say we have narrowed in on your diet as the culprit.

Change diet and change your concept of time. You did not answer what kind of vegetarian you are!

Thanks
~T

[bigpen]

Looking at this you are eating

Carbohydrates - 48%
Fat - 10%
Protein 42%

You are at 3295 kcal without adding in Lunch so let's say conservatively that is 500kcal and your now around 3795kcal/day. I did not see your stats anywhere but do you really need THAT amount of kcal? Why is Fat only 10% of your diet? Why are carbs that high?

Just looking at that PWS why do you need all that sugar? There so many hidden sugars in all that food I do not even know where to begin!

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

I agree - and in fact I made a similar point earlier in the forum - you need fats to grow and you aren't eating anywhere near enough. Your carbs are excessive - you don't need that much.

Eat more whole eggs, nuts, avocados, extra virgin olive oil, oily fish, full fat cottage cheese, cheese, coconut oil etc.

[marcus300]

It just doesn't 'grow' with different diets etc/ I tried all of this before trainers + roids. I think I have said this a few times now.
8 months was me alone. Then 4 months with another trainer and roids (which were fake) and I made no size gains. Now I'm with a new trainer and am seeing strength gains but no size changes.
I'm not defending what I'e done - I'm answering your questions - there is a difference.

Your not listening,
That's because your inexperienced and you need time to learn how to train and eat correctly and build a foundation. You need to be natural for at least 2 years and build a base and LEARN how your body grows and reacts to different training styles and diets.

Your trainer doesn't know what he is talking about if he put you on gear after 8 months worth of natural training under your belt, but we can go around and around in circles and you keep defending what you done but you need to stop taking gear and build a base natural and learn how to train correctly and eat right to build muscle.

[bigpen]

I trained myself for several months, then with a trainer for 4 months with gear (which was apparently fake) and now with this new trainer for 8 weeks. I have used 'proper' gear for 8 weeks. I can't remember if I posted what I have been using but its this:

Testex
Composition : 300mg/ml
Testosterone Cypionate 300mg
10ml Glass vial

Parabolan 3
Composition : 150mg/ml
Trenbolone Acetate 60mg
Trenbolone Enanthate 60mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate 30mg
10ml Glass vial

1 ml of each mixed together. Taken Wednesday and Saturday every week. Injected into alternative quads.

So you only trained for a few months before you started juicing? That may be part of the issue - you had no good natural base before you began cycling - nothing to build on. I trained for about 4-5 years before I started juicing.

4 months is a pretty excessive first cycle! What's that, 16 weeks!? What did you take for your first cycle? And how do you know the gear was fake?

So that's 600mg test/week and 300mg tren/week? Tren is a pretty ambitious compound to be running on only your first 'real' cycle in my opinion. I think you'd be better of with the test and an oral. Are you noticing any sides with the tren? And with the acetate ester in the tren it should really be injected ED or EOD to get the benefit of it - you would have as well been taking tren e. How long are you intending on being on the test and tren?

[bigpen]

Your not listening,
That's because your inexperienced and you need time to learn how to train and eat correctly and build a foundation. You need to be natural for at least 2 years and build a base and LEARN how your body grows and reacts to different training styles and diets.

Your trainer doesn't know what he is talking about if he put you on gear after 8 months worth of natural training under your belt, but we can go around and around in circles and you keep defending what you done but you need to stop taking gear and build a base natural and learn how to train correctly and eat right to build muscle.

Everyone here seems to be saying EXACTLY the same thing! I know a wee guy in my gym who sounds just like you - wasn't ready for gear, had only just started training, told him that, but he went ahead and did it anyway. He doesn't train properly and his diet is shit. Listen to what the bros on here are telling you, otherwise you'll just end up wrapping it because you'll get sick of not seeing any results!

[Back In Black]

You trained for months and months before your cycle?

BIB - I've completed 8 weeks and am now on week 2 of 5 on the new cycle. So a total of 10 weeks.

Training in general - in the gym - 4 months. Outside of the gym - been doing cardio mainly - for years.l.

So you were only training in a gym for 6 weeks before you cycled?

Besides you gained 15kg (33lbs) in about 6 months so what are you complaining about? You think you can gain week in week out forever? How do you think you would look if you did?

[dinogoesrawr]

Change diet and change your concept of time. You did not answer what kind of vegetarian you are!

I did - please see above.

[dinogoesrawr]

I agree - and in fact I made a similar point earlier in the forum - you need fats to grow and you aren't eating anywhere near enough. Your carbs are excessive - you don't need that much.

Eat more whole eggs, nuts, avocados, extra virgin olive oil, oily fish, full fat cottage cheese, cheese, coconut oil etc.

Again, I'm vegetarian so ily fish isnt an option.
Cheese/eggs/nuts is in the diet already. Oil - I can add this sure.

[dinogoesrawr]

So you only trained for a few months before you started juicing? That may be part of the issue - you had no good natural base before you began cycling - nothing to build on. I trained for about 4-5 years before I started juicing.

4 months is a pretty excessive first cycle! What's that, 16 weeks!? What did you take for your first cycle? And how do you know the gear was fake?

So that's 600mg test/week and 300mg tren/week? Tren is a pretty ambitious compound to be running on only your first 'real' cycle in my opinion. I think you'd be better of with the test and an oral. Are you noticing any sides with the tren? And with the acetate ester in the tren it should really be injected ED or EOD to get the benefit of it - you would have as well been taking tren e. How long are you intending on being on the test and tren?

No. I trained naturaly with the trainer first then was on gear for 10 weeks. I took the same substances above. The gear was fake as I got no gains (weight or otherwise) and no extra horniness. I can feel the difference having taken the 'real' stuff.

[dinogoesrawr]

Ok guys (generally) I think this is going round and round as I feel like I'm answering the same things over and over. Please can you re-read the posts above before posting more comments. Thanks.

[tarmyg]

Please can you re-read the posts above before posting more comments. Thanks.

No!

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[cj111]

Ok guys (generally) I think this is going round and round as I feel like I'm answering the same things over and over. Please can you re-read the posts above before posting more comments. Thanks.

Its going round and round because apparently you don't listen.
Go to bodybuilding.com and pick up a beginners strength program, 5x5 or something, learn how to train.
Steroids wont do anything for you bud, people here want to help but you are way to f*cking stubborn by the looks of things. If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't even bother replying to your cries for help.

Start over, ditch the steroids, and make some progress.

[largerthannormal]

CJ lol what you got on your head? you put on some size bro!

[cj111]

Dude, that's a squid hat I won at the carnival lol... my gf has one also, except its red!

Hows things with you man ?

[largerthannormal]

Lol haha nice!!

Things are well, just getting ready to toss some weight on. I made some pretty nice changes in spring so I'm pumped to add some mass and start catching up to you haha

[bigpen]

Again, I'm vegetarian so ily fish isnt an option.
Cheese/eggs/nuts is in the diet already. Oil - I can add this sure.

I just think you're going to find it reallydifficult being a vegetarian...hats off to you though - I couldn't do it!

[dinogoesrawr]

FYI - on PCT atm and off the roids.

[dinogoesrawr]

I just think you're going to find it reallydifficult being a vegetarian...hats off to you though - I couldn't do it!

Is there a 'meat shake' ie chicken to drink or something? I don't care about swallowing non-veg products - just not allowed it at home - so if I can 'conceal' it (like I do with eggs) its fine.