Originally Posted by
coca cola
are you 100% sure about this ron?
I realize that hcg is key to restore testicular function, by mimicking large amount of lh to stimulate the gonads back into producing testosterone, i also realize that our natural lh is supposed to bounce back on its own after stopping exogenous hormone intake, but using hcg will cause some aromatization therefore increasing the amount of estrogen (which known to be highly suppressive). The use of clomid blocks the the suppressive signal of estrogen at the pituitary level so that whatever excess estrogen floating around wont suppress the pituitary into producing lh, am i correct? yes, but what i am saying is hcg all by itself will work just fine for those on a budget. Adding clomid and nolvadex to the mix is OKAY if you can afford it (ESPECIALLY NOLVADEX) and if you can handle clomids side effects (emotionalism like a female having pms). there are several ways to do pct and some don't even need it but i feel most should err on the side of caution and do a proper pct!
also clomid boost natural lh production by quite a significant amount so that our natural lh production will be high enough to take over the job started by the hcg? yes and no. It helps but it's not needed for hcg to work.
the article confuses me because the author says clomid reduces lh and fsh? This doesn't make sense to me? If this is true, then why is this drug sold to treat oligospermia? well, nolvadex is better than clomid imo as it's stronger. From my research i have learned that nolvadex increase the responsiveness to lh but
clomid can decrease by a smal margin. This is probably what the article is saying!
i dunno man, i just been drilled for so long about the use of clomid and nolva for pct, and when someone says that they're not necessary, it just cause great confusion in my head? clomid and nolvadex do in fact help reduce estrogen once off a cycle. Decreasing estrogen levels will help stimulate your hypothalamus so natural testosterone production in the body will eventually start back up. That’s basically how both clomid and nolvadex work. Furthermore, once either of these drugs are stopped your estrogen level increase back to where they started in the beginning where as using aromasin will mostly prevent an estrogen rebound. The disadvantage to using anti-es like arimidex over nolvadex and/or clomid is that it works slower and results will be somewhat slower. Remember, clomid and nolvadex they do not actually reduce estrogen in the body like arimidex or aromasin but only block it's effects..
Does this mean, that for my next pct after this slingshot cycle i can safely used hcg only without nolva and clomid? yes, but use an anti-es during pct if used during the cycle to prevent massive estrogen rebound. Cause that would be great, i can seriously cut down the cost of my pct, and jump back on to another cycle? Hcg is way more efective for pct than clomid and nolvadex. give it a try and see how you respond. If not happy add only nolva with it next pct as its much safer than cloimd and see how that goes.
what kind of dosing protocol to follow if i wanna use hcg only for pct? 2500iu eod for 2 weeks? around 2500 ius of hcg beginning the last day of a cycle for 2-3 weeks. If nolvadex is used stop hcg before using!
if so wouldn't that risk too much estrogenic conversion without taking in any form of anti-e's or ai's? it varies amongst individuals just as some get gyno while taking 300 mgs of test per week and others can take 2 grams per week with no problems whatsover. The are no set rules when it comes to pct so you have to experiment a bit in order to see how your body reacts!
you've been around pros for years, is it true that they don't use clomid? some do and some do not. Most do not fool with it because of the side effects! is it because they're all on hrt and never do pct, or its because they think clomid is just useless and they only use hcg when its time for them to pct? many are on hrt like myself yet they bridge with 1 gram of test per week instead of 200 mgs per week.
please enlighten me ron, this concept of hcg alone for pct is totally new to me, i'm very curious to try it, but i'm scared i won't bounce back as well as i should without the help of clomid or nolva, and the risk of estrogen from hcg also seems kinda scary to me, don't want to start getting gyno during pct if i dont take nolva at least? you won't know until you try but nolva and clomid do basically the same thing. If you are scared try going with just hcg and nolva next pct then later try just hcg and see how you respond. Not a lot more can be said if you get my drift.
one last thing, from what i know primary hypogonadism is when the gonads just refuse to respond to lh anymore, no matter the amount, and this is usually permanent shutdown, so basically the problem is with the gonads.pretty much!
while secondary hypogonadism is when the hypothalamus stops producing gnrh, and no gnrh therefore means no signal given to the pituitary to start producing lh and fsh, and from what i know this is not permanent, but what i'm wondering about is, can anabolic usage damage the hypothalamus and/or the pituitary permanently? [b]anything can happen and if someone says it can't they are not being honest![/b] so that even though the gonads are responsive to lh, but since none are produced naturally in the pituitary, then there will be no instructions for testosterone to be produced by the gonads? if your pituitary glands quits sending the signal then you are hosed and looking at hrt for a lifetime.
sorry for the long post, this is all very interesting to me, and i'm just really curious about learning and understanding further about this matter, and also because i haven't heard about this hcg only method, i've heard clomid only, or nolva only for pct, but not hcg only, just seems kinda odd to me since everyone says hcg is suppressive as well. yes, hcg is somewhat suppressive but it still works alone. What you have to keep in mind is that once you stop taking aromatizing anabolics like test, the estrogen conversion ceases and the only estrogen you are then dealing with is coming from the hcg. Quite often people get confused thinking that even though androgen levels fall, estrogen levels remain high post cycle and this is not the case. Both androgen and estrogens fall by the wayside together. No one understands every concept of pct as everyne responds differently just as no one can explain all the functions of anabolic steroids and how they work. This is where experience comes to play.
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