Debating two approaches for my first cycle - Would LOVE input..

[nussnussbaby]

Let me guess, you use bowflex

Alright. That's it. How much do you weigh and what are your core one-rep max numbers? I don't care if you lie about it. Because I don't care what you do. But know that I am not lying. And that I've gotten my results naturally, with an hour a week in the gym, and in less than a year and a half of serious training, at 26 yrs old.

Me:
185lbs
Bench Press: 450lbs (2.4xbw)
Squat: 490lbs (2.6xbw)
Deadlift: 480lbs (2.6xbw)
Chin-up: 185lbs (bw) + 115lbs = 300lbs. (1.6xbw)

You:
?
?
?
?
?

[kronik420]

this bs still going...

[nussnussbaby]

....

[tarmyg]

Amazing thread. Sticky please!

~T

[kelkel]

I'm curious Nuss, can you name one top body builder or fitness athlete that uses this "trainers" methods?

"Bio

2:43 PM | Posted by Martin Berkhan




My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer.

This site is dedicated to my approach to intermittent fasting, which shatters peoples preconceived notions on how to eat for muscle gain and fat loss.

I am also working on something about something that will appear any moment between today and infinity. Some assembly of words, in unknown shape or form, a presentation of sorts. It will uncover some Method and Practice, the purpose of which is to banish corpulence, strengthen the flesh, and liven up the spirit."


Love that last part in bold. Pretty deep.....on the edge of my seat in anticipation. Sounds like Scientology!

[nussnussbaby]

I'm curious Nuss, can you name one top body builder or fitness athlete that uses this "trainers" methods?

"Bio

2:43 PM | Posted by Martin Berkhan




My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer.

This site is dedicated to my approach to intermittent fasting, which shatters peoples preconceived notions on how to eat for muscle gain and fat loss.

I am also working on something about something that will appear any moment between today and infinity. Some assembly of words, in unknown shape or form, a presentation of sorts. It will uncover some Method and Practice, the purpose of which is to banish corpulence, strengthen the flesh, and liven up the spirit."


Love that last part in bold. Pretty deep.....on the edge of my seat in anticipation. Sounds like Scientology!

I'm curious kelkel, can you name one top body-builder or fitness athlete that doesn't use gear?? It's a program for natural athletes, boss

[kelkel]

I'm curious kelkel, can you name one top body-builder or fitness athlete that doesn't use gear?? It's a program for natural athletes, boss

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

[nussnussbaby]

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

Thanks dude. I know I dove in very roughly here. But I really appreciate that.

Maybe I'll just plan on getting a little bit below 170 before starting.

[gearbox]

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

The patience you have shown in many threads is remarkable.

Op- the two you have chose are not much different in the long run. I would do the first so you can up the calories while on cycle and get some muscle gains and not have to worry so much about a little fat cause you will he super lean.

[nussnussbaby]

The patience you have shown in many threads is remarkable.

Op- the two you have chose are not much different in the long run. I would do the first so you can up the calories while on cycle and get some muscle gains and not have to worry so much about a little fat cause you will he super lean.

Okay. Thanks for the input. That's sort of where I've been leaning as well..

[gearbox]

Kel- want to join with me. Maybe we can learn about "IF" I have never heard of this diet approach. I'm hooked.

let's work on recruiting 405 and Aust next!

[king6 II]

When I logged on this morning as saw this thread already has 3 pages since yesterday.....I knew it had to be good!!

[Capebuffalo]

#2 is the answer

#1 you won't gain 5 lbs of pure muscle in 12 weeks

Are we done now?

[nussnussbaby]

#2 is the answer

#1 you won't gain 5 lbs of pure muscle in 12 weeks

Are we done now?

Thanks for the input man.

Do you think I'd end up closer to my ultimate goal --- 170lbs, as close to six% as possible --- if I cut even lower? Started my first cycle at, say, 160lbs?

[gearbox]

Thanks for the input man.

Do you think I'd end up closer to my ultimate goal --- 170lbs, as close to six% as possible --- if I cut even lower? Started my first cycle at, say, 160lbs?

Honestly if it was myself I would cut while on cycle cause I would need a calorie deficit of some kind and cardio. So I would use aas to hold onto as much muscle as I already have.

And Kel said trt. Which is testosterone replacement therapy. It's prescribed by your doctor usually older guys who are producing low low numbers. They give you a decent dose of test so your levels are always within a good range. No nothing like a cycle. Weekly trt can range from 90-200 a week is what I have heard guys getting from their doctors.

[nussnussbaby]

Honestly if it was myself I would cut while on cycle cause I would need a calorie deficit of some kind and cardio. So I would use aas to hold onto as much muscle as I already have.

And Kel said trt. Which is testosterone replacement therapy. It's prescribed by your doctor usually older guys who are producing low low numbers. They give you a decent dose of test so your levels are always within a good range. No nothing like a cycle. Weekly trt can range from 90-200 a week is what I have heard guys getting from their doctors.

That was my initial thought as well. Cut from 190 to 170 on AAS, hoping to retain almost all muscle mass (*though no one with a perfectly controlled calorie intake needs cardio to burn fat). I was discouraged from doing that by ppl on this site.

Thanks for explaining the TRT thing!

[gearbox]

That was my initial thought as well. Cut from 190 to 170 on AAS, hoping to retain almost all muscle mass (*though no one with a perfectly controlled calorie intake needs cardio to burn fat). I was discouraged from doing that by ppl on this site.

Thanks for explaining the TRT thing!

the above cardio fat comment is debatable depending on someone's goals and body type. We all don't react the same with a high carb vs a high fat or low carb and low fat. We as Individuals should already know what works for us and what doesn't.

[michael30]

Nuss i have a question. If all of us obviously dont know how to diet or train why would you want advice from us on gear?

[nussnussbaby]

Nuss i have a question. If all of us obviously dont know how to diet or train why would you want advice from us on gear?

Because I have zero experience with gear.

We all have experience training and dieting.

Get it?

[David LoPan]

Crap I see you have been posting here on this subject, all of your other threads, since the first part of January. You should be posting results of your results not asking the same questions again and AGAIN.

[nussnussbaby]

Crap I see you have been posting here on this subject, all of your other threads, since the first part of January. You should be posting results of your results not asking the same questions again and AGAIN.

Two things. 1) Someone needs to be a member here for about a month and a half before the wheels go into motion. 2) It's good to maintain weight for about 3 months before cutting.

[tarmyg]

Always going overboard I have now gone through every single post on Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health and I at first thought he had some solid arguments. I then, like any overly curious person, started to look just in general what this guy have been posting and ran into this Intermittent Fasting, and the Rabid Rantings of Martin Berkhan « AnthonyColpo and I do think Martin is being overly optimistic about his methods.

Now, regardless of science, if you are following Martin and it is working for you, why change it? Is his methods completely supported by modern science, hardly. But like anything, if you stick to it, are dedicated and are having success with your method of choice who am I to criticize? Is it optimum? Doubt anyone could ever answer that with 100% certainty.

Good luck!
~T

[nussnussbaby]

Always going overboard I have now gone through every single post on Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health and I at first thought he had some solid arguments. I then, like any overly curious person, started to look just in general what this guy have been posting and ran into this Intermittent Fasting, and the Rabid Rantings of Martin Berkhan « AnthonyColpo and I do think Martin is being overly optimistic about his methods.

Now, regardless of science, if you are following Martin and it is working for you, why change it? Is his methods completely supported by modern science, hardly. But like anything, if you stick to it, are dedicated and are having success with your method of choice who am I to criticize? Is it optimum? Doubt anyone could ever answer that with 100% certainty.

Good luck!
~T

I'm honestly not sure the eating time-frame makes that big of a difference myself. It's the training routine I think is astonishing. And thanks.

[Black]

I read over a bit of that website he posted. I wouldn't do it just for the sheer resentment I have towards the blogger, Martin whatever. He sounds like a super arrogant prick. I couldn't even finish reading it.

Therefore, between his douche-ness and the OP's attitude, I can only assume intermittent fasting (aka eating when you feel like it) will turn you into an a$$hole.

And if Martin would somehow read this, I'd like to see him raw deadlift 600lbs, 4 times. I don't even think he can hold the weight.

Also OP, why don't you just ask your buddy Martin for steroid advice?

[nussnussbaby]

I read over a bit of that website he posted. I wouldn't do it just for the sheer resentment I have towards the blogger, Martin whatever. He sounds like a super arrogant prick. I couldn't even finish reading it.

Therefore, between his douche-ness and the OP's attitude, I can only assume intermittent fasting (aka eating when you feel like it) will turn you into an a$$hole.

And if Martin would somehow read this, I'd like to see him raw deadlift 600lbs, 4 times. I don't even think he can hold the weight.

Also OP, why don't you just ask your buddy Martin for steroid advice?

1) He doesn't use gear or give advice on it.

2) Here's a video of him deadlifting 600lbs, 4 times: Deadlifting 600 lbs x 4 on Leangains Intermittent Fasting - YouTube

3) He is an arrogant prick.

[Black]

1) He doesn't use gear or give advice on it.

2) Here's a video of him deadlifting 600lbs, 4 times: Deadlifting 600 lbs x 4 on Leangains Intermittent Fasting - YouTube

3) He is an arrogant prick.

Well there we go.

[ickythump]

I gotta say, when nuss first started posting yes he was confident in his routine but he wasn't so defensively offensive about everything, every thread turned into why he couldn't do what he wanted to do (I even facilitated that in one) but I don't think that's the best way to go about it. This thread got the attention because he directly challenged common beliefs imho opinion, and did so in a very cocky way, which probably lead to the arguments. So I must say the story of nussnuss seems to be that of misunderstanding...

.....I'll never claim to be an expert, but nuss I think your best bet is clen and t3 to get you to the body fat you want while using test to keep your muscle, obv in a caloric deficiency. that's all I have, nothing on if I think you'll get there stay that way etc just from what I've read if I had no one but me and on an island and what I've read so far, no outside input, that is what I would do

[nussnussbaby]

I gotta say, when nuss first started posting yes he was confident in his routine but he wasn't so defensively offensive about everything, every thread turned into why he couldn't do what he wanted to do (I even facilitated that in one) but I don't think that's the best way to go about it. This thread got the attention because he directly challenged common beliefs imho opinion, and did so in a very cocky way, which probably lead to the arguments. So I must say the story of nussnuss seems to be that of misunderstanding...

.....I'll never claim to be an expert, but nuss I think your best bet is clen and t3 to get you to the body fat you want while using test to keep your muscle, obv in a caloric deficiency. that's all I have, nothing on if I think you'll get there stay that way etc just from what I've read if I had no one but me and on an island and what I've read so far, no outside input, that is what I would do

Man. Idk what to say. My goal is close to six%. The possibility of reaching and maintaining six% is challenged each time I post a question about reaching my goal. I respond by telling how I reached and maintained six% myself ~ by using leangains. And then everything turns into a huge fight about leangains, as opposed to a discussion about how I use gear.

I apologize to everyone if I came off as cocky or arrogant about it. I just believe very strongly in it. I've tried a lot of different workout approaches over the years. The Arnold routines, the Phil Heath's, dozens of physique BB'ers' and fitness models'. Maybe it's just particular to me. But the leangains approach has rendered everything else I've ever done laughable.

Thank you very much for your input on my cycle. I'm still kind of developing how I want to time my cycle, so I haven't gotten into the compound combinations yet. But I've bookmarked your post for later reference.

[Gunsablazin]

Big goals eat train sleep then do it again

[nussnussbaby]

Alright. So now that everyone's gotten their shots in about how I train, and I've learned about how to conduct myself here.. let's get back to the gear discussion.

Now, I've been told by some that a person's first cycle is kind of a special thing. With fresh receptors, I've been told it's the best opportunity you'll ever have to put on a ton of lean muscle. That's sort of the main reason I've been leaning against a cutting, or even a recomp cycle. My thinking now is, "Hey.. maybe I should cut down to 5 or 10 lbs below my ideal weight before doing this thing?" Let myself put on some real muscle.

What do you guys think? Cutting, recomp or slight gain cycle? Which is gonna get me closest to my goals?

[kelkel]

Alright. So now that everyone's gotten their shots in about how I train, and I've learned about how to conduct myself here.. let's get back to the gear discussion.

Now, I've been told by some that a person's first cycle is kind of a special thing. With fresh receptors, I've been told it's the best opportunity you'll ever have to put on a ton of lean muscle. That's sort of the main reason I've been leaning against a cutting, or even a recomp cycle. My thinking now is, "Hey.. maybe I should cut down to 5 or 10 lbs below my ideal weight before doing this thing?" Let myself put on some real muscle.

What do you guys think? Cutting, recomp or slight gain cycle? Which is gonna get me closest to my goals?

When did the light go on? IMHO there's no reason to use AAS unless you're trying to put on muscle.
Hey, I watched your guy deadlift. Quite strong for his appearance. Impressive actually.

[nussnussbaby]

When did the light go on? IMHO there's no reason to use AAS unless you're trying to put on muscle.
Hey, I watched your guy deadlift. Quite strong for his appearance. Impressive actually.

Okay. That's sort of the consensus I'm starting to gather. How far below 170lbs do you think I should get before starting the cycle?

And yeah. He's damn strong. He just looks smaller because he rolls around at about 5.5%bf

[kelkel]

Okay. That's sort of the consensus I'm starting to gather. How far below 170lbs do you think I should get before starting the cycle?

And yeah. He's damn strong. He just looks smaller because he rolls around at about 5.5%bf

I think you should get the hell off your scale. You're obsessed with it. Look in the mirror. You look good. Move forward.


No, he's still small. Just strong.

[nussnussbaby]

Here's something that might be helpful, in terms of setting personal goals when thinking about bf percentages and what not. Steve Reeves is my ideal physique. I know I'm never going to look like him. But it's good to set high goals. What do you guys think his bf% was in his prime?

[AlphaMike]

If it were me, and I had your goals, I would cut down to 6% before and then run the cycle. You'd be at your goal bf% and if you carefully planned each meal (since you don't do cardio) to minimize any fat gain, you might come out somewhere near your 6% @170 goal

And steve reeves' physique is completely attainable, you just have to train more than an hour a week.

[nussnussbaby]

If it were me, and I had your goals, I would cut down to 6% before and then run the cycle. You'd be at your goal bf% and if you carefully planned each meal (since you don't do cardio) to minimize any fat gain, you might come out somewhere near your 6% @170 goal

And steve reeves' physique is completely attainable, you just have to train more than an hour a week.

Thank you very much for the input.

Last time I got to six% body fat I wound up at about 155lbs. Do you think 15lbs from there would be too much to expect to add in one cycle?

[AlphaMike]

Thank you very much for the input.

Last time I got to six% body fat I wound up at about 155lbs. Do you think 15lbs from there would be too much to expect to add in one cycle?

15 lean pounds would be around the upper limit I think. If you time it correctly the rebound effect switching from cutting to bulking could be dramatic but the problem is you want to keep you bodyfat% low so you'll have to dampen that effect some.

[derekkpapa1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yeah what he said

[kelkel]

That would be a good goal. It won't start that fast but it will catch up.
I look forward to this. It's going to change your perspective.

[nussnussbaby]

That would be a good goal. It won't start that fast but it will catch up.
I look forward to this. It's going to change your perspective.

Okay. So maybe I'll just drop down a little below 160 then.

And yeah. I'm definitely excited too. Especially after doing a good bit of research about the actual safety of the drugs. Unfortunately for those interested in seeing results soon ~ I'm not planning to cut more than a lb/wk, so it'll be a while still before I start.

Now that I know how I'm going to approach this. I want to start gathering information about the actual combination of drugs I'm going to be going with. Girl's about to be here though so I gotta run til morning.

Thanks for all the input man. Really!